Civil Liberties my ****

Discussion in 'Politics and Society' started by Thomas, Dec 20, 2021.

  1. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Search, be your own guru.

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2012
    Messages:
    1,707
    Likes Received:
    497
    RJM likes this.
  2. RJM

    RJM God Feeds the Ravens Admin

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2016
    Messages:
    7,903
    Likes Received:
    1,832
    Some people are vocal about preserving the freedoms that tick their own boxes, but also very vocal about restricting the freedom to disagree with them? Ask JK Rowling ...
     
  3. Ella S.

    Ella S. Logoic Logician

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2021
    Messages:
    697
    Likes Received:
    528
  4. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Messages:
    22,541
    Likes Received:
    2,400
    Idk about where you are....but the no shoes in the states is the health dept... Both for your protection and others.

    People want to not live in fear are concerned the givt is poisoning us with the vaxxes (manufactured by how many different companies?) That sounds like fear to me.

    Half a dozen pharmaceutical companies sent their a scientists in umpteen different directions to get a product created and tested with enough efficacy to get a contact order to manufacture. You suspect collusion by.them?

    For decades I was anti allopathic medicine, anti big pharma...till they brought me back to life (my Lazarus or road to Damascus moment) I am now alive 3 years and a half a million dollars later due to the medical advances utilized by medical professionals, and the R&D by Big Pharma...i am without pain and getting stronger...lol...they convinced me....of course I am just a sucker living in fear, lol
     
  5. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Search, be your own guru.

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2012
    Messages:
    1,707
    Likes Received:
    497
    And Wil, the pig-heart transplant! :)
    Well, the first one to try that was an Indian Assamese doctor. Had to pay heavily for his adventurism. His hospital was burnt down, and he faced court cases for many years.
    That was 25 years ago. Now the poor chap cannot speak well because of some physical disability. Did it before the correct time. I do not think there were that many options against tissue rejection at that time. The story does not end with just a transplant.
     
  6. RJM

    RJM God Feeds the Ravens Admin

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2016
    Messages:
    7,903
    Likes Received:
    1,832
    No
     
  7. RJM

    RJM God Feeds the Ravens Admin

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2016
    Messages:
    7,903
    Likes Received:
    1,832
    That's the problem: reasonable people objecting to compulsory Covid vaccination are accused of being conspiracy theory anti vaxxers. It's boring ...
     
    Ella S. and Unveiled artist like this.
  8. RJM

    RJM God Feeds the Ravens Admin

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2016
    Messages:
    7,903
    Likes Received:
    1,832
    There is a degree of short term risk and long term risk is unknown. The science is in flux. It cannot be forced into people who for whatever reason, choose not to take that risk. That's all the argument
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2022
  9. Unveiled artist

    Unveiled artist Real life Dolls

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2022
    Messages:
    125
    Likes Received:
    58
    In my personal opinion, I think the two are the separate. If you go into a store without shoes no one will segregate you. It's a breach in policy. If there is a no smoking sign, someone can go to another restaurant that does have smoking. The later business did their own assessment of risk to determine if they are in danger of people with whom they don't know are sick. Some businesses can say the risk doesn't supersede the profit. Others believe that it does.

    So, an unvaccinated person can go to a store that believes they're not at a high risk of consumers walking around diseased.

    In general it's all fear. We don't know whose sick. Both vax and unvax can spread the virus. I wonder how the omicron will effect this, though.
     
  10. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Messages:
    22,541
    Likes Received:
    2,400
    Omicron is filling the hospital beds and hallways with the unvaxxed.
     
  11. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Messages:
    22,541
    Likes Received:
    2,400
    Yup...the record on vaccines is an unequivocal success since they were discovered (if you count saving lives and reducing sickness success)

    Long term covid however....what we know about the infection is miniscule...yet more than enough to want to avoid it all together or be asymptomatic.

    I like the taste of food and two open heart surgeries has already reduced my memory, IQ and brainfog (at a known predictable rate) I have no wish to get the long covid symptoms we know about and add to my issues that my children may have to worry about or handle.
     
  12. Unveiled artist

    Unveiled artist Real life Dolls

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2022
    Messages:
    125
    Likes Received:
    58
    That really doesn't say anything. It's, how they call it, a logical fallacy. It doesn't say why people are unvaxxed, their overall health, and all we know is what the media portrays of the situation-a lot of missing variables involved. But I've heard more that vaccinated breakthroughs with Omicron, though. It's not a serious as the original COVID. Breakthroughs are important as well, but media doesn't focus on that.

    Edit.
    How do we know that vaccinated people aren't spreading the virus too?
    Maybe the policy should focus on whether people have symptoms before going into a business not whether people are vaccinated.
     
  13. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Messages:
    22,541
    Likes Received:
    2,400
    Lol...we know the vaxxed are spreading it!

    But these are the best vaxxes developed so far.

    They reduce the impact on our bodies and healthcare system (not the goal?) Unfortunately they have not figured out how to stop the contagion.

    This was well known before my first shot...and was still the case when I got my third...and prolly will be when I get my fourth.

    I have post covid friends with severe lethargy, brainfog, chronic joint pain, and loss of taste or negatively affected taste for over a year now....i aint interested...i prefer to avoid it.

    I mean we have shown we can't be bothered to distance, mask or quarantine...

    No, I don't wanna put my finger in the grinder...we all know the risk...
     
    Aupmanyav likes this.
  14. Ella S.

    Ella S. Logoic Logician

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2021
    Messages:
    697
    Likes Received:
    528
    The unvaxxed are dying and filling hospital beds because they're dramatically more susceptible to the virus and the virus is highly contagious. The science wins this one out.

    Vaccinated people are spreading it. However, the vaccine helps them kill the virus when it's in their system, which means that you're a lot more likely to be asymptomatic when you're vaccinated, less contagious (as you have less of the virus in you,) and you're contagious for a far shorter period of time because the virus is killed off by your antibodies.

    So while vaccinated people do still spread the virus, they have dramatically reduced their contagiousness to the point that the primary contagions are the unvaccinated.
     
    Unveiled artist and wil like this.
  15. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Search, be your own guru.

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2012
    Messages:
    1,707
    Likes Received:
    497
    The situation is serious in India and is likely to worsen with festivals and elections; or even normal living which in India means crowds. People are dying, but it is not as bad as in the earlier waves. Only 7% of the hospital beds designated for Covid have been occupied in Delhi. My grand-daughter who is a dentist studying for her masters, has also been called to help out in Karnataka. My main worry is about my youngest grandson, who is 10 and not vaxxed.
     
    Ella S. likes this.
  16. Unveiled artist

    Unveiled artist Real life Dolls

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2022
    Messages:
    125
    Likes Received:
    58
    I have back and forth feelings on that. My pet peeves is the politics and how it's causing people like my friend to look down on unvaccinated people.

    My question to myself is where did they pick up that semi hatred. I know they say unvaccinated are mostly in hospitals but they are telling vaccinated as well to get more shots. I would hope that the first one/two shots would do it but they say that's waning in effect...and so soon too.

    Is there a way unvaccinated should be concerned by their own experiences or by what they are told? I notice the reference to science and the experts make me think they feel what they are told to feel.

    I'm pretty much an observer though.

    (Appreciates the civil conversation here. :))
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2022
  17. Unveiled artist

    Unveiled artist Real life Dolls

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2022
    Messages:
    125
    Likes Received:
    58
    They're vaxxing kids 5-11 here now. Is that the case there or his parents not wanting to vax him?
     
  18. RJM

    RJM God Feeds the Ravens Admin

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2016
    Messages:
    7,903
    Likes Received:
    1,832
    That's it: my love for humanity extends to those like myself willing to take a drug with slight but not negligible short-term, and unknown long-term side effects, in order to protect the health workers, in spite of the fact my own demographic puts me into the aged or vulnerable poor health group for covid damage, and you outside of it -- the drug being useful but still only marginally effective against infection and transmission -- but turns to hatred or contempt against you with your young life still ahead of you, who does not see it my way, lol ...
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2022
  19. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic) Admin

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2018
    Messages:
    3,128
    Likes Received:
    1,663
    I feel frustration. Like the way a tax payer feels about tax evaders. The tax evaders still profit from the taxes I pay, but don't want to pay their part.
     
  20. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Search, be your own guru.

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2012
    Messages:
    1,707
    Likes Received:
    497
    You see, we are facing a very difficult virus who like the 'transformer' is changing its form on a daily basis. Omicron is OK. It is not reported to be very serious. But any day, we may encounter another strain which could be more fatal than the first wave. Vaccination is what best we can do. (Fortunately, in India, vaccines are not allowed to be sold in market, jabs are totally free. Of course, the money is from taxes)
    We cannot ignore that China, with its totalitarian regime, has done the best with Covid.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2022

Share This Page