Civil Liberties my ****

Aupmanyav

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They're vaxxing kids 5-11 here now. Is that the case there or his parents not wanting to vax him?
We are all (Indians in general) for vaccination (except, as usual, some Muslims). Government of India has not started vaxing people below 15. The experts are discussing it. Perhaps they will allow it if there are no adverse effects in other countries.

You see India is in perpetual election mode somewhere or the other. If the government allows it and something untoward happens, then it will effect their chances in elections.
 
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RJM

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Specialists now agree on endemic ending:
today 16/01/2022


Dr Campbell's channel also contains multiple interviews with people suffering vaccination side effects. They are not common, but they are not entirely to be disregarded. He is not anti-vaxx. He is a reasonable doctor, who lays out all the facts for people to make their own choices -- a fair and honest voice
 

wil

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but they are telling vaccinated as well to get more shots. I would hope that the first one/two shots ddwould do it but they say that's waning in effect...and so soon too.

We used to get tetnus shots every year as a kid. Do shots are new every year...anticipating the next variation...the same will be for covid...
 

RJM

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The Dr Campbell video above explains everything. 25 minutes of life and go away with the most up-to-date covid information ...
 

Ella S.

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I have back and forth feelings on that. My pet peeves is the politics and how it's causing people like my friend to look down on unvaccinated people.

My question to myself is where did they pick up that semi hatred. I know they say unvaccinated are mostly in hospitals but they are telling vaccinated as well to get more shots. I would hope that the first one/two shots would do it but they say that's waning in effect...and so soon too.

Is there a way unvaccinated should be concerned by their own experiences or oy by what they are told? I notice the reference to science and the experts make me think they feel what they are told to feel.

I'm pretty much an observer though.

(Appreciates the civil conversation here. :))

I'll be honest; I don't watch the news. All of my information about the virus comes from reading peer-reviewed studies published in reputable academic journals.

From what I hear, the "science communicators" who talk about the virus on the news are doing a really, really terrible job. Which is unfortunately fairly common. I don't know what people are being told to feel, but I heard that the experts have said some pretty insane stuff like the vaccines making you immune to catching and transmitting the virus, which the science absolutely does NOT and NEVER HAS supported.

I think the unvaccinated should only really be concerned if they work with or live with the elderly (or at risk for lung disaease) or somebody who does, or if they are elderly (or at risk for lung disease) themselves. I still would recommend that everyone gets the vaccine, because it cuts down transmission dramatically.

Statistically, though, smoking is a larger health risk than being unvaccinated. Approximately over 15% of deaths are due to smoking (https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.aa0003385739&view=1up&seq=34) whereas just under 6% are due to COVID-19.
 

Unveiled artist

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We used to get tetnus shots every year as a kid. Do shots are new every year...anticipating the next variation...the same will be for covid...

So far we're still learning about vaccine effectiveness. All other shots were still trial and error. Why expect COVID vaccine be like others when not that old?

Maybe jumping the gun...it doesn't hurt in itself but the effect is the problem. I have issues with the effect this has. We should make health choices that's good for ourselves and others but I never heard any propaganda to push people to get tec shots. President didn't threaten and belittle people. Totally different context.
 

Unveiled artist

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You see, we are facing a very difficult virus who like the 'transformer' is changing its form on a daily basis. Omicron is OK. It is not reported to be very serious. But any day, we may encounter another strain which could be more fatal than the first wave. Vaccination is what best we can do. (Fortunately, in India, vaccines are not allowed to be sold in market, jabs are totally free. Of course, the money is from taxes)
We cannot ignore that China, with its totalitarian regime, has done the best with Covid.

I think we should not take our solutions for granted--example, don't downplay the parts we don't know and highlight the parts we do.

From a health perspective and purpose I see no issue. To each his own health choices. The politics, well. Not sure of other countries but I'm not sure how this would end here in the States without breaking laws that help govern this country.
 
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seattlegal

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My opinion:

People in power who mandate people be vaccinated against their will are well-meaning tyrants.

People in power who outlaw mask mandates, especially around children and the elderly, are downright evil tyrants. (I don't use the word evil lightly.)

Your mileage may vary.
 
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Ella S.

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My opinion:

People in power who mandate people be vaccinated against their will are well-meaning tyrants.

People in power who outlaw mask mandates, especially around children and the elderly, are downright evil tyrants. (I don't use the word evil lightly.)

Your mileage may vary.

I no longer care about what other people determine are "good" or "evil." These are social constructs that have no meaning to me.
 

Aupmanyav

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To each his own health choices.
It should not be so in a democracy. We elect our representatives.Now, if the representatives decide that it is the best for us to get vaxxed, then for what reason we should refuse that? A refusal to be vaxxed means a danger to others, knowing how quickly this virus spreads, it is treason. Not wearing mask is treason. Tomorrow, what if an army is asked to fight and refuses? Nations and societies do not work like this. No problem if people against vaxxing decide to protest peacefully in the Gandhian way. That is their right. Kindly understand the legal position. At least in India, there are reasonable limits to personal freedom.
 

wil

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Having 3 Dr friends in ERs (new Mexico and Maryland) half a dozen nurses in ERs and another couple dozen in various positions in healthcare, health policy, FDA testing....

They are all my peers and educated.and practicing in the field and risking their lives to help others....that is the job they signed up for.

Who do You think I am most likely to listen to? The sources my friends follow? The friends that have more detailed education inn the topic and are in the field.....or Joe Rogan?

I.admit it is my opinion and my choice... I am obviously biased and I am vaxxed and encourage others to do so....because I don't want any more of.my friends to lose family members to.the dang bug.
 

Ella S.

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Feel free to substitute the words malevolent, injurious, or pernicious for evil.

I really don't think that those who refuse to wear masks are doing so out of any malevolence.

Injurious and pernicious, perhaps, although these really depend on how you define harm, which makes them pretty much just as meaningless as "evil."
 

seattlegal

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I really don't think that those who refuse to wear masks are doing so out of any malevolence.
Oh, I do. Selfishness and inconsideration for others in the very least that could very well cause harm to others.

Masks are different than vaccines. I'm not in favor of mandatory vaccine mandates. I am in favor of mask mandates made by those in charge of the protection of people within their given area of responsibility.

Injurious and pernicious, perhaps, although these really depend on how you define harm, which makes them pretty much just as meaningless as "evil."
The weak and vulnerable (children and elderly) deserve to be protected. It is quite reasonable for those who protect the elderly or children to issue mask mandates in the area of their protection where they are in charge. Any ruler who hogties the ability of those in charge of protecting the weak (children or elderly) causes easily avoidable harm by sabotaging safety mechanisms designed to protect the weak and vulnerable. The net result is "culling the herd" --specifically targeting the children and the elderly--rather than "protecting the vulnerable."
 
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Ella S.

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The weak and vulnerable (children and elderly) deserve to be protected. It is quite reasonable for those who protect the elderly or children to issue mask mandates in the area of their protection where they are in charge. Any ruler who hogties the ability of those in charge of protecting the weak (children or elderly) causes easily avoidable harm by sabotaging safety mechanisms designed to protect the weak and vulnerable. The net result is "culling the herd" --specifically targeting the children and the elderly--rather than "protecting the vulnerable."

I'm not sure I agree that the weak and vulnerable deserve to be protected. Can you prove that?
 

wil

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I suppose wearing masks helps a little, but perhaps making it illegal to fart would help more in indoor spaces ;)
Farting has been shown to cause what? Contagious laughter? Personal embarrassment?

Masks indoors, limiting time indoors with large groups of people...shown to reduce exposure....this is simple common sense.

You know like Lysol or the evermicin...
 

muhammad_isa

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Masks indoors, limiting time indoors with large groups of people...shown to reduce exposure....this is simple common sense.

Police_officer_wearing_half-mask_respirator.jpg


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