Civil Liberties my ****

Discussion in 'Politics and Society' started by Thomas, Dec 20, 2021.

  1. RJM

    RJM God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    But where does the money come from to support the rising percentage of old people and others dependent on the benefits raised from state taxes? Mao tse Tung and Josef Stalin were responsible for millions of starvation deaths by their attempts to nationalize state resources. Mao was responsible for 70 million deaths by his collective farming.

    In Russia farmers were not allowed to consume their own produce; they watched their families starve, while the state lorries came and took away their produce, to be wasted on corrupt officials or left rotting, or exchanged for guns and tanks.

    Why should it be different next time around?
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2022
  2. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Save Our Souls

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    Is this a response to my post about capitalist philosophy?

    It has nothing to do with what I said. I'm not advocating communism.
     
  3. RJM

    RJM God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    Ok. What is the alternative you propose?

    Whatever it is, it has to take into consideration the fact that western populations are expanding on the aged end, and falling on the young end: the young are increasingly required to sacrifice to support the old*. Elon Musk warns not of a population explosion, but a population collapse, as the old population start to expire and there are not enough births, over the next two decades -- at least amongst first world nations.

    However the overbalance of aged populations is true of most nations, as women become more entitled to birth control, etc.

    The greatest population expansion is expected to happen in Africa, particularly Nigeria. This is not a continent that cares greatly about carbon requirements. Of course it is not in general the continent that offers the best of state medical and financial support either. The problem in Africa is state corruption, pure and simple.

    It is true that people try to elect a government which will bring them and their children the best living standards. But the 'western system' enables the electoral system to function, without despots declaring themselves president for life, rigging elections and forming a dependent circle around them of corrupt officials. It's not that the desire for corruption does not exist in the 'west' but that the checks and balances make it more difficult to get away with, imo?

    What would be a suitable alternative?

    *edited to read 'the old' ... not 'the young'
    sorry
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2022
  4. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Save Our Souls

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    Capitalism is, as the name suggests, based on "a return on capital".

    Money is not a commodity in itself.
    It is often argued, that rich people are doing everybody a favour by "creating jobs and wealth" etc.
    Isn't this just an excuse for the inequality in wealth between people and nations?

    I'm not advocating that people who work hard should not be rewarded for their effort.
    Neither am I suggesting that government should control markets and abandon free-market principals.

    What I am suggesting, is that people should not be greedy, and think it is OK to support a financial system that encourages the wealth to be in the hands of a few.
    There is a difference between a free-market and the usurious manipulation of money.
    "small is beautiful" .. but what we have now is massive global companies that are in reality, just financial abominations.
     
  5. RJM

    RJM God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    Agreed, in principle. But it is as old as history and would require a change in human nature?
     
  6. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Search, be your own guru.

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    Yes, economic growth is important for India with a huge poor population. There is no shame in saying this. If you can suggest any other system for India, we would be thankful to you. Remember the system in the world and the security threats that India faces. There is not just one problem.
     
  7. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Save Our Souls

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    I know. There is only one solution that I can see.
    ..and that is a change in the global financial system.

    This can only be realised, if the people change.
    ..but at the moment at least, it seems that those that are in control of the vast majority of wealth, aren't changing.
    What a surprise! :(

    Remember, that Jesus and Muhammad started off with few supporters,
    and were persecuted.
    Nevertheless, look what mankind has achieved in the long run.
    We are now in danger of losing all that, but only a few perceive.
     
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  8. badger

    badger Well-Known Member

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    I have been all for wearing face masks, keeping distances, obeying store direcions to customers, hand cleansing and touchit-buyit rules. But I am also in favour of free speech.

    We will get a chance to change the leadership soon, so let's see how things develop.
     
  9. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    I know more folks that caught the bug the past two months than I have the whole past two years.

    In the past two years I have not had a sniffle, a fever or needed a tissue. Masks and distancing worked!
     
  10. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    Same here.

    My borough has swung to Labour in local elections for the first time ever. I'm sure some of the respondents on my NextDoor fed will be going into meltdown!
     
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  11. badger

    badger Well-Known Member

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    Indeed! :)
    The Lib/Dems have been resurrected........ a phoenix rising from the political ashes, but Labour not quite as well as I expected, not quite as vigorous nor charismatic as might be hoped for.
     
  12. badger

    badger Well-Known Member

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    Very good! We have both avoided sickness during this pandemic and my wife works in a busy veterinary surgery; she was furloughed for a few months which might have saved her from covid but her vigorous upholding of all rules may have protected all her colleagues as well.

    A Covid inspector visited her workplace, carried out a full inspection and asked to see various signs, routes and passages, etc etc. After his inspection my wife asked him ,'Aren't you going to make notes about our lamps?' ....He had no clue about those, she then pointed out the large ultra-violet lamps in each room and theatre. They kill bacteria and viruses very effectively.
     
  13. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Save Our Souls

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    They also produce ozone. Not so nice in a small space.
     
  14. badger

    badger Well-Known Member

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    No, UV-C light does not produce ozone. However, the shorter Ultraviolet-V (UV-V at 185 nanometers) wavelength of UVV light actually generates ozone. .....
    Just quoting from an it site response.
     
  15. badger

    badger Well-Known Member

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    You're a Brit! (I didn't know.... :) )
    I'm a retired Brit but I think I can have a job, but I will pay tax on all my earnings because my pension would take me in to taxable income. Not you?
     
  16. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Save Our Souls

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    Ah yes..
    On closer inspection, I see you are right. :)
    Most UV lights are mercury based and do actually emit the !85nm UV light, but it is filtered out in the case of germicidal lamps.
    Very good. No ozone.
     
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  17. badger

    badger Well-Known Member

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    My wife still wears a mask at her workplace and if she goes to shops, the surgery, dentist etc.
    I keep a mask handy to use wherever notices ask me to wear one.

    Folks who insist that masks cannot work just don't get how they DO work. Not only do they reduce the risks of transmitting and receiving infection but they became a symbol of our cohesion AND put us all in to a mindset which helped us to remember ALL the other rules.

    We gave space to others.
    We acknowledged others who gave space to us.
    They reminded me to have and use alcohol to clean my hands wherever I went.
    They reminded me to avoid any crowd collection areas and times.
    They reminded me to reduce my travel needs.
    They just reminded me all the time that we had to keep the Sickness at bay long enough for the boffins to produce a vaccination, which they did in about a fifth of the usual research and development times from the past.

    People who have moaned about their rights and freedoms and who insist on being allowed everywhere without vaccination have the right to voice all their feelings, but if they are care workers or home visitors then they should give up their jobs.....that's an easy one. If an unvaccinated care worker was allowed to visit care homes and then transmitted sickness to residents who died...... how can that seem reasonable practice to anybody? The idea is obtuse, I think.
     
  18. badger

    badger Well-Known Member

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    I have written on Interfaith about my recent eye operation which has given me amazing vision in my right eye after 70 years! My right eye is now better than my left after 70 years of myopia so bad that my brain didn't bother with the signal.

    I'm right handed, but had to learn to carry out many functions left handed because I only had a left eye.

    Guess what...? If Measles vaccination had been existent 70 years ago I would probably have had 70 years of good vision during my life!

    And yet some parents still refuse to give their children vaccinations. Obtuse.. daft..... careless.... imo.
     

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