Do angels have wings ? Or something we painted ?

Discussion in 'Christianity' started by davidsheep88, Dec 22, 2021.

  1. davidsheep88

    davidsheep88 Member

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    The bible refers that malakim is the way how Judaism called angels, the word angel comes from the word “Angelos” greek meaning messenger truth be told they are powerful beings and the order how angels were portay by the catholic church are wrong. The catholic portays them as human and child-like they were never that figure. But in biblical times the bible says it prohibits the israelites from depicting things from heaven.

    20:4 exodus

    You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in the heavens above, on the earth below, or in the waters beneath.

    This is case that angels could not be depicted and painted and most the images in the internet and the catholic paintings from the renassaince are wrong. Angels are being we cannot see with the naked eye, only the prophet Ezekiel says in A vision A sight of the Lord with his angels.

    Ezekiel 10:1-22

    That is closest what is described even though angels appear to him, How did this portrayal of angels in a good vs evil appears that angels will destroy each other

    in the celestial war ?

    Zoroastrianism
    Is the influence that Catholic, Judaism, and Modern-Day Christian fall for it, It teaches that good and evil exist in the plane of angels heirarchy and angels all have wings and all are special beings. such as its monotheism, messianism, belief in judgement after death, conception of heaven and hell, and free will may have influenced other religious and philosophical systems. Even though Judaism predates it even before the exile of babylon the kingdoms of Judah and Israel worshipped other Gods and accepted influence from other religions. Zoroastrianism influence it all and this concept of angels and demons arouse.

    What is the closest we know on how the angels really look like, how the lord is in his throne with them is

    hebrews 12:29 for our “God is a consuming fire.”

    It is reference of what power he is made of and the angels around him are made of fire like his because he is so powerful other ranks of angels under Seraphim, Cherubins, and Ophafins ( Thrones ) can be near him.

    G-d is not men or women in appearance but fire he can come down here as man but in heaven his body is fire !!!

    The angels are made of his fire and can withstand his enormous power

    . The question do angels have wings ? some do and some don’t their is heirarchy that exist but for christians Seraphims are the high order the top but for hebrew (Judaism) chayot ha kadesh are the higher caste but here is an example.

    Maimonides

    he puts heirarchy like this

    Rank Angelic Class Notes

    1 Chayot Ha Kadesh [21] See Ezekiel 1 and Ezekiel 10
    2 Ophanim See Ezekiel 1 and Ezekiel 10
    3 Erelim See Isaiah 33:7
    4 Hashmallim See Ezekiel 1:4
    5 Seraphim See Isaiah 6
    6 Malakim Messengers, angels
    7 ElohimGodly beings
    8 Bene ElohimSons of Godly beings
    9 Cherubim See Hagigah 13b
    10 Ishim “manlike beings”, see Genesis 18:2 Daniel 10:5

    then the christian one

    1: Seraphims

    2:Cherubins

    3:Thrones (Ophanims)

    4.Dominations

    5.Virtues

    6.Powers

    7.Principalities

    8.Archangels

    9.Angels

    are the order of christians.

    But because of the flood, the destruction of the temple of Solomon when babylon attacked, and other times history is destroyed in Israel by this calamities we do not know the way is organized and rabbi’s say that great information was lost in this incidents of history we do not know how the order is ?

    Some scholars say Chayot Ha Kodesh are indeed Archangels so the order maybe switched.

    So where does it says angels have wings ? one part says it.

    When moses made the ark God instructed him to put wings on the cherubs !

    1 kings6:27

    27And he placed the cherubim inside the innermost room of the temple. Since their wings were spread out, the wing of the first cherub touched one wall, while the wing of the second cherub touched the other wall, and in the middle of the room their wingtips touched.

    It shows the ark was made with cherubs and their wings.

    Where does it say they don’t have wings ?

    The ophanims ( Thrones)

    they do not have wings

    Ezekiel 1:15-21

    As I looked at the living creatures, I saw a wheel on the ground beside each creature with its four faces. This was the appearance and structure of the wheels: They sparkled like topaz, and all four looked alike. Each appeared to be made like a wheel intersecting a wheel. As they moved, they would go in any one of the four directions the creatures faced; the wheels did not change direction as the creatures went. Their rims were high and awesome, and all four rims were full of eyes all around.

    When the living creatures moved, the wheels beside them moved; and when the living creatures rose from the ground, the wheels also rose. Wherever the spirit would go, they would go, and the wheels would rise along with them, because the spirit of the living creatures was in the wheels. When the creatures moved, they also moved; when the creatures stood still, they also stood still; and when the creatures rose from the ground, the wheels rose along with them, because the spirit of the living creatures was in the wheels.
    No where in this part do they have wings.

    There is error that people see angels like child-like babies that have wings and the Catholic church depicted them as cherubs such A way and the bible never said they look like that but powerful creatures with 4 wings of the Lord !!! People the eyes are fooled for what they see and people who saw angels cannot see the whole being for it is A being of fire.

    A fire more greater than suns but what does the bible say about Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, and Uriel aren’t they archangels shouldn’t they be Chayot Ha Kadesh the truth is Raphael and Uriel are not real they are not God’s angel another error of history they were created by the catholic church. They do not appear in the tanak or bible no aprt. The bible only talks of 2 angels and they are Mikael and Gavriel they are the angels G-d sends to talk to his prophets.

    Raphael is made up just like the baby cherubs, also Uriel they are not part of the old testament they do not appear only in the apocryphals books.

    So Raphael and Uriel are not bible based but made up.
     
  2. RabbiO

    RabbiO הרב יונה בן זכריה

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    @davidsheep88 -

    There is just so much wrong with what you have posted. As one example, Raphael and Uriel were not made up by the Catholic church. They were named and known in Jewish literature before there was Christianity of any sort.
     
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  3. davidsheep88

    davidsheep88 Member

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    But rabbia please show where in the tanakh or the bible Raphael exist ? Tobit is apocryphal it cannot proven from the old testament and new testament ?
     
  4. Ella S.

    Ella S. Gnostic Alchemist

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    Angels look like humans, which we see in stories like Sodom and Gomorrah. Seraphim and Cherubim have wings, but they don't look like the stereotypical angels we usually think of.

    Seraphim have 3 pairs of wings covered in eyes, one to cover their feet, one to cover their face, and one to fly. (Isaiah 6:2)

    Cherubim have wings and four faces, although since the number of pairs aren't mentioned, it's probably only one pair of wings. (Ezekiel 10:14)

    Whether Seaphim and Cherubim count as angels or whether they're celestial beings and angels are a very specific type of celestial being has been debated for centuries. Angels as a specific type of celestial being look indistinguishable from humans, a la "It's a Wonderful Life."
     
  5. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    Perhaps angels can take whatever form they wish, when choosing to reveal themselves to human beings, or remain invisible if they wish? Angels can appear in human form:

    Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.
    (Hebrews 13:2)
    Full chapter

    “And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground, And said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant: Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree:

    And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said. And Abraham hastened into the tent unto Sarah, and said, Make ready quickly three measures of fine meal, knead it, and make cakes upon the hearth.

    And Abraham ran unto the herd, and fetcht a calf tender and good, and gave it unto a young man; and he hasted to dress it. And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat.”
    (Genesis 18:1-8)
    Read full chapter
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2021
  6. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic) Admin

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    In your faith, must something be mentioned in your scriptures to be legitimate? Don't you have teachings which are not in scripture, yet don't contradict it? The teaching about which books exactly are to be counted as scripture, is it found in your scriptures?
     
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  7. 'Amir Alzzalam

    'Amir Alzzalam Šayṭānist

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    I've never personally seen an angel, just artwork of them, but it seems to me that their 'wings' are metaphorical in the sense that angels are always associated with the element of air, hence why they are depicted with wings.
     
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  8. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    I love it when folks ask a question they think they have the answer
     
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  9. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic) Admin

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    I've learned a lot from answers to my own rhethorical questions.
     
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  10. 'Amir Alzzalam

    'Amir Alzzalam Šayṭānist

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    Many times I ask questions that I have the answer to, or at least my own opinion of, in order to evaluate others and their understanding.
     
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  11. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    Exactly...

    But we did not hire anyone as a teacher to evaluate us and our understanding.

    This is a discussion site. But when I evaluate those who ask questions for this purpose and your understanding I see ulterior motives.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2022
  12. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    It is a dead giveaway for wannabe gurus that can't find traction elsewhere.

    Well that and drivebys with a plethora of posts and then gone for periods. It is interesting behaviour to observe for sure.
     

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