Is anybody came from heavens to this world in the human history? No

Discussion in 'Christianity' started by Ijaz Ahmad Ahmadi, Mar 16, 2022.

  1. stranger

    stranger wolfwing, a feral angel

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    As it is for me, and I have no training at all beyond potty. It would seem that when we pursue the mysteries with intellect and concept alone, we run into the temptation of concretization, in which we can become so attached to what we think we know that we "write it in stone", so to speak, and any additional knowing just falls prey to confirmation bias. If I am not mistaken this is the trap that ancient alien theorists have fallen into.

    This is why I prefer divine ignorance to other forms of learning. With ignorance, I am the tabula rasa, always the blank page ready for the creative word. And only love can write lasting words on these pages. With this, I stumble forward, never sure of where I am going but willing to move as needed.

    Surely the Lover always wants to know more of the Beloved, and vice versa -- this is the dance of love in which all other forms of learning pale by comparison. And yet, love is patient, willing to grow but only as the words come. Some will say, "You only have a little love, don't you want more?" Yet the person who has had no love before will say, "What is a little love? I have this love, therefore I have everything I need."
     
  2. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    I think we're all 'spiritual bodies' in that we have life/light within ... ?
     
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  3. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    I'm afraid the Jesus Mysteries has been soundly rebuked as nonsense. Evidence here
     
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  4. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    Just to clarify here – after the crucifixion, the physical body of Christ was in the tomb, and nobody knows where it was until they knew it was no longer in the tomb on the third day. Then Mary saw Him in the Garden. It's unlikely a physical body was present in the descent into the underworld/the harrowing of hell, because the eschaton is not a physical place.

    It is clear from other references that after the resurrection, Christ is not recognised until He chooses to be seen. Mary mistook him for a gardener, the two disciples on the road to Emmaus (Luke 24) didn't realise they were conversing with the Risen Christ until He chose to reveal Himself.

    In short, He is in the world, but no longer bound by it.

    So the Risen Body is a physical body, but not constrained as physical bodies are, and this is all profoundly illogical, of course, unless one accepts Christ to be who He is, in which case it's reasonable.
     
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  5. Ahanu

    Ahanu Well-Known Member

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    Where does it say he ascended bodily into heaven in the Qur'an? Off topic, but interested in your take on that one. :D
     
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  6. RJM

    RJM God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    Physically? What's the word? Ascended alive to heaven? Was taken up alive?
     
  7. RJM

    RJM God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    Is it in the Quran?
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2022
  8. RJM

    RJM God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    So we have two references:

    ˹Remember˺ when Allah said, “O Jesus! I will take you and raise you up to Myself. I will deliver you from those who disbelieve, and elevate your followers above the disbelievers until the Day of Judgment. Then to Me you will ˹all˺ return, and I will settle all your disputes.
    (3:55)

    I never told them anything except what You ordered me to say: “Worship Allah—my Lord and your Lord!” And I was witness over them as long as I remained among them. But when You took me, You were the Witness over them—and You are a Witness over all things.
    (5:117)

    Are there more?
     
  9. Ahanu

    Ahanu Well-Known Member

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    No.

    But the Arabic word for "raising up" (rafa'a) doesn't refer to the physical ascent of the body into heaven. Where is that idea in the Qur'an? Or is it more in the imagination of commentators? Instead, this word (rafa'a) is used in the sense of exaltation and honor: "Those apostles We endowed with gifts some above others: to one of them God spoke; others He raised to degrees" (2.253).
     
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  10. RJM

    RJM God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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  11. Ahanu

    Ahanu Well-Known Member

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    :)

    For the idea of the ascension in the Qur'an, you might want to refer to mi'raj, not rafa'a.
     
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  12. RJM

    RJM God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    Is Isa unique as the ascended prophet? Adam, Musa, Noah and others all died? Elijah?
     
  13. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Save Our Souls

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    Are you a student of classical Arabic?
    As far as I'm aware, the vast majority of Arabs believe that it is a literal ascension .. Allah removed him from this world.
     
  14. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    Two questions here, really.

    And I am sure interrogate 'the vast majority of' in any tradition and they'll believe a populist and probably erroneous interpretation of their Scripture. That's not a criticism, that's just a fact of human nature.
     
  15. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Save Our Souls

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    Well, when I say "the majority", I refer to 85–90% of the world's Muslims ( including Arabs ).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunni_Islam

    The OP is an Ahmadiyya, and he believes that Jesus died in Kashmir. :)
     
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