Illusion

Discussion in 'Belief and Spirituality' started by Kazul, Apr 21, 2022.

  1. Kazul

    Kazul Member

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    I wish to talk about something important I have experienced over the past few days. I think that what we see, touch, hear. smell, and taste is true reality. I believe this world as we know it is the most absolute real thing that there is. With that being said, I also believe our thoughts and spirits are equal to our being as much as our physical self. This would mean that even though all of us may be presented with the same world to experience physically, we still create our experience as a compound of what we experience physically, mentally, and spiritually. Illusion is simply a mask over our experiences. Every single experience we have, physical, mental, and spiritual can be covered with the mask of illusion which simply keeps us from seeing the very basic form of what anything really is. To relieve this mask is not to figure something crazy out but simply to figure out what is actually there.
     
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  2. RJM

    RJM God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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  3. Kazul

    Kazul Member

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    Actually very right on thank you. I've heard of it before but not for a long time
     
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  4. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic) Admin

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    Is the mask not also just one more thing that is actually there?
     
  5. Ahanu

    Ahanu Well-Known Member

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    For the time being.
     
  6. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic) Admin

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    Well yes.

    But is illusion something extra special or is it just like all the other cognitions arising in the mind? If I understand @Kazul as he intends, then the physical senses are placed right next to the mental faculties in terms of their reality. Which makes a lot of sense to me.

    So to rephrase my question, is illusion something unreal, something special, or is it really like anything else that passes through the mind?
     
  7. Ahanu

    Ahanu Well-Known Member

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    I doubt illusion is equivalent to, say, the mental image of a cup of coffee that fades in and out of the mind, or, say, the smell of coffee in the morning that fades away after leaving the kitchen. The image of a cup of coffee and the smell of coffee reflect something real in the exterior world. Illusion is more akin to imagining flying unicorns (which are unreal), for what's passing through the mind now has no reality.
     
  8. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic) Admin

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    So the content of an illusionary cognition has no counterpart in the reality of the physical senses, past, present, or future, is what I understand you to be saying, as illustrated by the flying unicorn

    I'd agree that there are such flights of fancy.

    I have a hunch that this meaning of "illusion" is not quite what @Kazul had in mind. Looking forward to his input here.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2022
  9. Kazul

    Kazul Member

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    I believe that we were all born into this world the same way. I think all of us were tricked. We thought once we came into this world we could become ourselves inside of ourselves, but instead we were stuck outside of our physical selves. I think the mask of illusion is created because of this very problem.
     
  10. Francisco Gonzalez

    Francisco Gonzalez player of games

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    A winged unicorn is the combination of a unicorn (which is a pure being) and a benevolent pegasus (a winged cool horse, generally a white stallion) so that these imaginings are symbols for reality, just like symbols make up a language which is made to represent reality (communication is reality too). The bigger the language the more accurate it can represent reality (for perspective, English has the largest vocabulary with 171,476 words.) Basically, the winged unicorn trope is 2 words and both have many values so that it is a compact representation of various REAL things.
     
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  11. Ahanu

    Ahanu Well-Known Member

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    Sure. As long as one is aware it represents purity, an intangible virtue, or whatever one's culture associates it with.
     
  12. Ella S.

    Ella S. Utilitarian Logician

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    I agree.

    I've seen studies where children have better memories than adults because instead of looking into a room and seeing "a table and some chairs" they haven't fully become used to intuitively recognizing the wide variety of tables and chairs. So they first see a raw data input of all of the shapes before consciously concluding that what they see is a table and some chairs. In adults, this process has become habituated.

    Because children have to familiarize themselves with the shapes more, they can tell you what color the wood was, what the designs on the back of the chairs looked like, etc. whereas adults have a harder time recalling these details since all they remember was that there was "a table and some chairs."

    It seems that, at some point, our experience of the world turns into abstract categorizations and we stop seeing reality itself. We only see these labels, which are not wholly real, creating illusions.

    This is also how stereotyping and profiling work, I think. It becomes easy to dehumanize entire groups of people.
     
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  13. thomasmariel

    thomasmariel Well-Known Member

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    In other words, you're saying that uncovering the mask is meaning of knowing the existence of the problem, instead of activating the solution.
     
  14. seattlegal

    seattlegal Mercuræn Buddhist

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    I wouldn't say it is an illusion, but a map that we subjectively create from information gathered from our perceptive functions (sensory functions and intuition.) The map is not the territory.
     
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  15. Ella S.

    Ella S. Utilitarian Logician

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    This is a much better way of looking at it, in my opinion. I appreciate the insight. You have changed my perspective.
     
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  16. Geoffrey

    Geoffrey Established Member

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    @Kazul says that, "our thoughts and spirits are equal to our being as much as our physical self."

    With regard to our physical bodies, our thoughts, our Selves, and Spirit, after many years of reflection I have come to believe that:

    Excerpted from the "Acts" section in my reflection on the "works vs. faith" question in Christianity, "Behaviors, Acts, Works, Deeds" (in my blog):

    In the weakness of his flesh,
    The strength of man’s mind
    Allowed him to survive, and
    Enabled his prosperity.

    Living his life, man came to learn
    What behaviors allowed his survival, and
    Those behaviors, being efficacious,
    Were removed from further thought.

    Removed from his thought, those behaviors that
    Help man survive become
    In his conduct, habits, and
    In his thinking, prejudices, and
    Determine how he
    Interacts with life.

    All men, non-believers and believers alike
    Go about their lives riding on the inertia of
    Their habits and prejudices, free to
    Bring their wills to bear on the self-interested
    Acts through which
    They hope to improve their lives.

    This is how the "illusion" is created, the illusion of Self. Once the Self is recognized as illusion, ("Self" from my blog):

    Arising from the body,
    Self is but a mirage,
    Devoid of true being.

    Arising from the heart,
    Self is but a phantom,
    Empty of true being.

    Arising from the mind,
    Self is but a dream,
    Without true being.

    Arising from the flesh,
    Self is but a mirage, a phantom, a dream, and
    Possesses no true being.

    Then those renouncing Self in pursuit of spirit, recognize and let fall the "dispositions" (in Buddhist parlance, the causes and conditions) that created this illusion, eventually "seeing God (Buddha Nature) face to face." (from the chapter "The Renunciant," also from my blog):

    Layer by layer, my renunciants
    Remove the dispositions that
    Bind them to the world of the flesh, the
    World of isolation, the world of suffering.

    Inheritors of spirit as well as flesh,
    Renunciants know of the perfection of spirit,
    And one path only –
    The perfecting of its expression.

    By the one righteous act that
    The will can commit,
    Renunciants remove
    The layers of their dispositions,
    Those things that define Self and
    Limit spirit’s expression.


    Again, my apologies for any inconvenience my writing in verse might have occasioned.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2022 at 4:09 AM

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