Delusion

Ella S.

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TW: Psychosis

Continued from here:
https://www.interfaith.org/community/threads/20137/page-4


Bearing in mind the above, I'll get to the nub of my queries ...

You's declared the principles of the RHP a delusion, but the affirmation of subjectivity is risky when it's evident that the self is the most fallible element in the whole equation?

The sobering message is: Those who do not learn by history are doomed to repeat it.

For me, detachment and discernment are the pre-requisites of the Great Work, without the need of rejecting the world, just a recognition of what it is.

I have some unique insight on this topic. I was delusional once.

When my psychiatrist was trying a variety of different medications for me and before my current diagnosis was finalized, we looked into whether I suffered from psychotic depression. I didn't have any of the positive symptoms like delusions or hallucinations, though, only negative ones like apathy, social withdrawal, and reduced affect.

For a few months, I was put on an anti-psychotic. This particular drug had an uncommon side-effect; it could sometimes produce psychosis in those who did not already experience it. That's exactly what happened to me.

Psychosis is nothing like I thought it would be. In movies, you often see people hallucinate that they're in completely different places, sometimes switching between places and all of them seeming incredibly real. This is not accurate to my experiences.

For me, psychosis was basically the exact opposite. Real-life started to feel less real. I began to doubt my own memories of past events and whether they were from dreams or not. While I was awake, I wasn't sure whether I was still dreaming. I would get lost in daydreams and I couldn't tell whether the daydream was real life or whether reality was real life.

When I "heard voices" it wasn't like I could hear them audibly. I heard them in my head. I just couldn't tell that they were imaginary because the sounds I heard "in my ears" also felt imaginary. Sometimes the voices felt even more real than real life.

There was this big problem where I would recognize patterns in things and then creatively think or joke about random explanations for those patterns. For instance, every third step in my school was a different color, probably a design choice. To me, though, that pattern seemed so obviously something else. I thought it might be some sort of occult symbolism used to ward demons away and I was afraid that it would think I was evil and that it would burn me up if I touched it, so I skipped the steps when walking up the stairwells.

At the time, this wasn't a full-on delusion. I wasn't really sure if that was true or not. I just didn't want to risk it. Of course, underneath that was my emotional reasoning; I felt guilty and so I imagined the world was going to punish me. Being psychotic just turned that overwhelming feeling into a paranoid delusion that felt more real to me than real life.

I'm very thankful that I could experience psychosis because I can say for sure now that I'm not psychotic. It isn't a state of mind that I'm still in. We took me off that medication and I recovered. Unfortunately, for many people, they can't just be taken off their meds and no longer be psychotic. It's a constant state for them and they don't have a non-psychotic state of mind to compare themselves to, making it easy for them to think that they're normal because, to them, that state of mind is normal.

So I think we should be very careful when we label people who are just stubbornly holding onto beliefs that we think are incorrect "delusional." Real delusions are very different.
 

wil

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a figment of your imagination
When I was brought out of the coma between the drugs, lights on 24 hours.and being woke for.tests every few hours I developed ICU delusions...

Hallucinations.of bugs on my arms or bed (I mean thousands of.them). One time I asked.if.they wall papered my room, it was all covered with a flowing calligraphy in a foreign language. Another time I watched a.gnome.crawl out the brick work. He turned and grinned.at me and then flew away.

You are correct in all these hallucinations I was in the same room, same body just some added things like an augmented reality.
 

Ella S.

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When I was brought out of the coma between the drugs, lights on 24 hours.and being woke for.tests every few hours I developed ICU delusions...

Hallucinations.of bugs on my arms or bed (I mean thousands of.them). One time I asked.if.they wall papered my room, it was all covered with a flowing calligraphy in a foreign language. Another time I watched a.gnome.crawl out the brick work. He turned and grinned.at me and then flew away.

You are correct in all these hallucinations I was in the same room, same body just some added things like an augmented reality.

That's the way shrooms are for me if I take a bit too much, but it's the opposite of what I experienced in psychosis. While I was psychotic, the hallucinations didn't look real. Real-life looked imaginary. So it became hard to tell what was a hallucination and what wasn't.

ETA: And this should be distinguished from derealization, which I do still suffer from thanks to my C-PTSD. Under derealization, I can still tell whether imaginary things are part of the same "stuff" as reality. I can still distinguish between what is a dream and what is real.

It's just that reality feels dreamlike. I'm aware that it isn't a dream. It just feels like one. It's a similar sensation, but under psychosis I wasn't sure whether real-life is a dream or not.
 
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powessy

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I have only experienced an hallucination with eyes open only once. The person was half cat and half human, she ran up in front of me and looked into my eyes, and then vanished.

Eyes closed, and in meditation this would and is a whole other story. I can see and interact with the mechanism/minds that generate these experiences. These minds can generate music and images that make sense to us and things that don’t.

The only problem about this is trying to figure out which minds they are teaching, neurons or mitochondria. I do not do drugs but have talked to many who have trying to figure this out. I do believe that drugs find time differently then not taking them, the experiences seem to be completely different. It would be interesting to talk to those who take antipsychotic medications to try to understand the things they still experience.

I would lean about 85% towards mitochondria teaching us these experiences. I watched a video today on micro luminescent bacteria. These bacteria communicate through chemical transference that may increase more why we sleep. This would also make sense why people that take antipsychotic drugs stop having experiences because the drugs interrupt there ability to communicate.

Just interesting thoughts about thoughts

Powessy
 

powessy

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I Thought this was an interesting video, hope you do not mind me posting it here.


Powessy
 

Namaste Jesus

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Real delusions are very different.
Hard to tell the difference sometimes. In that realm dreams have always fascinated me. Real, imagined, delusional imagery...? Don't know, but some of mine have come to light. Had this one dream about 12 or so years ago. Another of our cats had passed some months prior and I missed him terribly. I was contemplating getting another as I drifted off to sleep one night. Well, the cat we had lost appeared to me in a dream as a cow with the exact same markings our cat had! Funny too, because though he was now a cow, he still behaved like a cat, rolling around and licking himself!

Anyway, in the dream I asked him if I should get another cat. He said no, wait for alley cat. I woke up after that feeling rather content, but with no idea what that was supposed to mean. About a week later though, someone literally abandons a tuxedo main coon kitty in a crate on our front stoop! I brought the poor fellow in, still not making the connection. He looked a bit scared and hungry and I remembered we still had a bag of kibble left over from the cat we had lost. so I went to retrieve it.

When I opened the cupboard door you could have knocked me over with a feather! The brand of cat food was "Alley Cat" who's mascot is a black and white kitty. I literally stood there and cried. So delusion, coincidence, communication from beyond or unspoken prayer answered? Matters not to me. All I know is I'm so thankful our Jackie came into our lives and is still with us. :)
 

RJM

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Hard to tell the difference sometimes. In that realm dreams have always fascinated me. Real, imagined, delusional imagery...? Don't know, but some of mine have come to light. Had this one dream about 12 or so years ago. Another of our cats had passed some months prior and I missed him terribly. I was contemplating getting another as I drifted off to sleep one night. Well, the cat we had lost appeared to me in a dream as a cow with the exact same markings our cat had! Funny too, because though he was now a cow, he still behaved like a cat, rolling around and licking himself!

Anyway, in the dream I asked him if I should get another cat. He said no, wait for alley cat. I woke up after that feeling rather content, but with no idea what that was supposed to mean. About a week later though, someone literally abandons a tuxedo main coon kitty in a crate on our front stoop! I brought the poor fellow in, still not making the connection. He looked a bit scared and hungry and I remembered we still had a bag of kibble left over from the cat we had lost. so I went to retrieve it.

When I opened the cupboard door you could have knocked me over with a feather! The brand of cat food was "Alley Cat" who's mascot is a black and white kitty. I literally stood there and cried. So delusion, coincidence, communication from beyond or unspoken prayer answered? Matters not to me. All I know is I'm so thankful our Jackie came into our lives and is still with us. :)
Wonderful!
 

seattlegal

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I got knocked out of my body during childbirth. (My son was sideways, and my nonprogressing contractions were so strong that they broke the equipment that measured them.) It was kinda strange being outside of my body, being able to see and hear through other people's eyes and ears.

I've had some other strange sensory distortions--like seeing things happen a few seconds before they actually happened and such.
 

Cino

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Wow, that sounds very stressful!

Excuse my geek mentality for asking, were you able to perceive things that your "own" eyes etc. could not have, maybe see out a window or behind a person's back?
 

RJM

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I got knocked out of my body during childbirth. (My son was sideways, and my nonprogressing contractions were so strong that they broke the equipment that measured them.) It was kinda strange being outside of my body, being able to see and hear through other people's eyes and ears.

I've had some other strange sensory distortions--like seeing things happen a few seconds before they actually happened and such.
Thank you for sharing. So painful and traumatic. This type of personal experience can't be taken away by words and material reasoning, imo
 

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(My son was sideways, and my nonprogressing contractions were so strong that they broke the equipment that measured them.)
Dang! My mom use to tell the story of when she went into labor with me. Apparently I was headed out butt first. Yeah I know, that figures. Anyway, rather than risk an emergency C-section, the ER docs decided to attempt to twist me around the right way. Mom said she was in labor a total of 72 hours and I was a lovely shade of blue when I finally entered the world!
It was kinda strange being outside of my body, being able to see and hear through other people's eyes and ears.
Wow! Reminds me of something my grandnephew said when he was about 4. We had just come from my mom's funeral and were still talking about it when the grandnephew speaks up and says that he knows where you go when you die. We're all like, do tell... So he calmly explains that your body goes in the ground, but your soul goes into the mind of the people that loved you and you see the world through their eyes. Out of the minds of babes...

Now, he probably got that from the priest at the graveside service when he said something to the effect of, my mom lives on in the memory of those who loved her, but I'm not completely sure. Same kid told my wife at the service that Granny was watching us and that she liked the shoes my wife was wearing. Who knows? o_O
 

seattlegal

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Wow, that sounds very stressful!

Excuse my geek mentality for asking, were you able to perceive things that your "own" eyes etc. could not have, maybe see out a window or behind a person's back?
Yeah, for a moment I was at the nurses' station, and they were scrambling around, talking about the "OP" (occiput posterior,) among other places.
 

'Amir Alzzalam

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The key to 'delusion' lies in it its definition.

Delusion is:
a) characterized by or holding idiosyncratic beliefs or impressions that are contradicted by reality or rational argument, typically as a symptom of a mental disorder.

b) based on or having faulty judgment; mistaken.

Delusion is not necessarily Illusion or Hallucinatory, which are symptoms of mental illness of some sort. Delusion is simply 'believing things that are not true'. Delusion is not a belief based on false or incomplete information, confabulation, dogma, or some other misleading effects of perception.
 

Cino

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Delusion is not necessarily Illusion or Hallucinatory, which are symptoms of mental illness of some sort.

@Ella S. pointed out how it wasn't like buying into some illusion as much as reality losing it's quality of being "real":

In movies, you often see people hallucinate that they're in completely different places, sometimes switching between places and all of them seeming incredibly real. This is not accurate to my experiences.

For me, psychosis was basically the exact opposite. Real-life started to feel less real. I began to doubt my own memories of past events and whether they were from dreams or not.

Also, "believing things that are not true" is not a very useful diagnostic tool for delusion, as it would apply to each and every one of us.
 

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When I was brought out of the coma between the drugs, lights on 24 hours.and being woke for.tests every few hours I developed ICU delusions...

Hallucinations.of bugs on my arms or bed (I mean thousands of.them). One time I asked.if.they wall papered my room, it was all covered with a flowing calligraphy in a foreign language. Another time I watched a.gnome.crawl out the brick work. He turned and grinned.at me and then flew away.

You are correct in all these hallucinations I was in the same room, same body just some added things like an augmented reality.
It grinned at you? :eek: What if the hallucinations were something else? Maybe a look into the spiritual realm...... Have you experience any other strange phenomenas?
 
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