Cancel Culture

Discussion in 'Politics and Society' started by seattlegal, Jul 7, 2022.

  1. seattlegal

    seattlegal Mercuræn Buddhist

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    Cancel culture is not limited to the "Woke Left." The entrenched right is also quite guilty of it. One obvious example of it is the GOP "primarying" republicans who don't tow the line regarding the last election being a fraud, as well as working to disenfranchise whole blocks of voters who they feel will vote against them. Feminist bloggers regularly get death threats and calls for them to be raped.

    Cancel culture is an authoritarian form of oppression and an effort to repress unpalatable ideas. Repression only makes things worse. If you just bandage up a wound without cleaning it out, the poisons will fester and make things worse. You have to clean out the wound and clear out the poisons before you bandage it for true healing to take place.

    I'm always one for open dialog and for listening to opposing views, especially when the dialog is rooted in reality and backed up with evidence that can be critically examined. This is how true progress is made. This requires examining the evidence and discerning between propaganda whose purpose is to inflame and real evidence that, with a little work, will lead towards a solution.

    Freedom of speech doesn't mean one can spout propaganda (hate speech) and not get expected to get called out on it. Unfortunately, some people have found that they can make a lot of money just spewing propaganda and manipulate people in the process.

    Now, exactly where is the line between spewing propaganda and getting called out on it and cancel culture? Where would you draw that line?
     
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  2. RJM

    RJM God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    There are laws against hate speech and defamation, etc. What is propaganda? A lie is a lie; it is wrong to deliberately spread lies. It can be difficult to regulate. I believe cancel culture is the attempt to suppress ideas that I don't like?
     
  3. RJM

    RJM God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    Censorship and oppression of the opposition has always been expected from authoritarians. It's not really something to be expected from the so-called liberal freedom of the individual type of movement?
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2022
  4. seattlegal

    seattlegal Mercuræn Buddhist

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    RJM likes this.
  5. RJM

    RJM God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    In the end the problem may be to confuse liberation or social justice SJW movements with liberalism. Most liberation movements believe the end justifies the means?
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2022
  6. seattlegal

    seattlegal Mercuræn Buddhist

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    What would be a better way to distance oneself from someone you perceive as a bigot?
     
  7. RJM

    RJM God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    By wisdom and reserve?
     
  8. seattlegal

    seattlegal Mercuræn Buddhist

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    Could you further explain?
     
  9. seattlegal

    seattlegal Mercuræn Buddhist

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    What constitutes cancel culture?
    • unfollowing/unsubscribing to someone on a social media platform?
    • reporting content as offensive or hate speech?
    • unsubscribing to someone's monetized platform (where they make money from it?) (including not buying someone's books)
    • responding to someone on social media, calling out their content as racist, sexist, or hateful?
    • threatening someone with harm whose views you don't agree with?
    • petitioning that someone be fired due to something they posted on social media or something they said on their own private time?
    • petitioning that someone get fired over something they posted/said while representing the company they work for?
    • telling lies/slandering/committing libel against someone which whom you disagree?
    • physically threatening someone or their family with whom you disagree?
    • doing actual physical harm to someone/terrorism?
    • active censorship?
    • revisionism?
    • other?
     
  10. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    Cancel culture of today is repealing the cancel culture of yesterday ...

    When it comes race the states have whitewashed our history since before the civil war.

    We are just in the past years identifying and exposing the white propaganda which has attempted to keep blacks, natives, Hispanics, Asians for centuries literally.

    Here in the US our bigots live in fear that they will be treated as they have treated minorities
     
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  11. RJM

    RJM God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    Imo the root of the problem is the need to demonize anyone opposed to lives ruined by cancel culture as a racist bigot transphobe. Demonize anyone who doesn't see life my way, entities me to do whatever I like towards them. No need for a court, just a baying mob to string 'em up ...
     
  12. seattlegal

    seattlegal Mercuræn Buddhist

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    Which of the abovementioned actions could be ascribed or attributed to Cancel Culture? Let us attempt to bring this phenomenon out of nebulousness and identify some real instances of how it manifests.
     
  13. RJM

    RJM God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    Imo the above constitute the acceptable right to disapprove and disagree.

    These above are not acceptable ...
     
  14. seattlegal

    seattlegal Mercuræn Buddhist

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    Alright, now we have some criteria to work with.
    OK, so responding to someone's post on social media, calling out someone's content as racist, sexist, or hateful does not constitute Cancel Culture. How about calling out someone for posting transphobic content? How about showing a history of that person posting transphobic content? Does that constitute Cancel Culture?
     
  15. RJM

    RJM God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    I don't think so. Both persons have a right to their own opinion?
     
  16. seattlegal

    seattlegal Mercuræn Buddhist

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    We might have to define what constitutes transphobic content here.
     
  17. RJM

    RJM God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    Let's take it a step further. Elliot declares he is a man. Peterson declares in his opinion that Elliot remains a biological woman. Does Peterson have the right to say that?
     
  18. RJM

    RJM God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    Does he have the right to think that?
     
  19. seattlegal

    seattlegal Mercuræn Buddhist

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    I would say that would be classified as trolling--taunting and looking to provoke and inflame. A person has a right to legally change their name, so calling Elliot by their former name when referring to them in the present tense is inflammatory.

    Gender is different from biological sex. Gender is a function of Persona, and a name change is often associated with a change of Persona. For example, a newlywed spouse will often take on their spouse's last name to reflect their new Persona role as spouse to their partner. Peterson is a psychologist, and should be well aware of the differences between Persona and biological sex. Perhaps his comments are meant to highlight the difference between the two, perhaps not. It all boils down to whether Persona (a virtual mask or social role one adopts) can be imposed by biology or not.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2022
  20. RJM

    RJM God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    I agree with this. I don't know how deed-poll name change affects birth certificate etc, but a person who legally changes his name has the right to be addressed by that name -- certainly.

    The problem is with myriad personal pronouns and hundreds of bewildering gender classifications, imo. A person has the right to prefer a particular gender pronoun, but not to expect broader society to comply. It is a courtesy, but it's a tough old world and many don't agree, and have the right not to.

    To me the issue is not about minority rights but about minorities forcing their language and mores onto the rest of the population. A Rasta has the right to call himself I&I but not to demand anyone else address him as such.

    Rastas don't make such demands, of course. They are content to live their own language and lifestyle, and don't want to impose it in broad society.

    When it turns to ruining another person's life because they express disagreement, it takes another face. Imo
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2022

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