Yin and Yang theory..

Discussion in 'Belief and Spirituality' started by Postmaster, Jan 31, 2005.

  1. Postmaster

    Postmaster Well-Known Member

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    Yin and Yang theory.. Personally I believe this theory is the ultimate truth surrounding the universe and every bit of existence.. But let me point out that our existence as it is now is trapped in the Yin and only death will let us go into the Yang.. The reason I came to this conclusion is simple.. Look at nature, she is one big destructive force, we come out of our mothers bellies screaming and in some cases that’s the way we die. Look at predators in nature, they have to kill life just survive, like the crocodile and the tiger. The material existence is the Yin and that’s why heaven is paradise, in heaven would there be the curse of race? Curse of language? Curse of religion?.. There is no survival of the fittest or domination, or dog eat dog in the yang, if you were to look at this material existence from the opposite perspective then this Yin existence we live is an illusion, the more you get draw into it, the less you will see of the yang in the after life because you had your cake already.. If you start to see yang (God) now, just imagine how clear it will be in the after life..

    Buddism believes that even earth and this material world is part of the balance, however my view is that material life is unbalance towards the Yin (negative). And thats why Christians believe they are here to suffer and follow in the path of Christ.

    The Yin and Yang theory although eastern thought, was actually a theory that came about in Ancient Greece well before it appeared in the east and famous Greek Cypriot philosopher named Zenon and Aristotle also lived and taught life with this very same balance who even taught this to Alexander the Great. Sorry couldn't help but add that last part :D
     
  2. Vajradhara

    Vajradhara One of Many

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    Namaste Postmaster,

    thank you for the post.



    interesting. you don't subscribe to the Eastern view of Yin/Yang, do you?



    no need to address the query above :)



    hold on a tic... are you saying that you are just basing this conclusion on your own views, or have you actually studied the Taoist teachings regarding these things and thus have your views?

    nature is not simply destructive, it's also creative and nurturing and probably all the other anthropormorphic adjetives we can use... it's a bit simplistic to pick one aspect of a complex phenomena and correctly characterize it, in my view.

    i'm not really sure what this statement means. are you drawing distinctions between "earth" and "this material world" in some fashion?



    i don't suppose that you have any method of sustaining that claim, do you?
     
  3. Postmaster

    Postmaster Well-Known Member

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    The material universe we live in is all of the boundaries of Yin. Look at space does it look dark and endless, and hopeless? Look at the earth you came into screaming, we live in a place not free from mental and physical pain, even Buddha could not avoid pain. When will it end if you reincarnate? There has to be a pure light, something that can not be seen, the reason we can't see it is because we are trapped in the Yin, the dark place. Material existence is an imbalance towards the Yin.. That’s what I'm trying to say, we are here to suffer, the ones which are not suffering are on top and they are the ones who will pay the price one way or an other for there existence.. Would you have to go to war to create peace in the Yang? To get to the extreme of the Yang you have to go through the extreme of the Yin, that’s the price you pay for your exsistance.


    The yin and yang theory came about 2000 BC in China and in Ancient Greece a theory very much in the same way came about 3000 BC if not before... So I read a long time ago, I'm looking for a link but can't find anything. Have a look at this http://www.civsoc.com/rvp/india_paper6.html are you probably also an other lost person on the significance of ancient Greece due to western anti hellenism which developed because Greece had strong relations towards the soviets and Russia ;) During victorian period Greek people were even classed as special :confused: (not true, we are all human) But read more about ancient Greece if you are looking for wisdom, some of the worlds most famous people, philosohpers and politics (democracy) came out of there ..
     
  4. Faithfulservant

    Faithfulservant Well-Known Member

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    Speaking as a Christian, I dont believe Im here to suffer :)
     
  5. Postmaster

    Postmaster Well-Known Member

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    If I'm not mistaken, is it not part of the ideology of Christianity? In fact that’s the reason in South America highly religious people re-enact the crucifixion of Christ in real circumstances (Which I believe is wrong).

     
  6. Vajradhara

    Vajradhara One of Many

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    b'shalom Postmaster,



    it would appear that you are equivocating the traditional understanding of Yin to mean something else... interesting. do you find that it's working for you?

    no, space does not look dark, endless and hopeless to my way of seeing things.



    not all beings come into the world screaming, you know. nevertheless, why would a Buddha avoid pain? it would be tantamount to being reborn in a Pleasure God realm, not very condusive to the spiritual path, in our tradition.



    Buddhists don't believe in reincarnation. nevertheless, the experience of samsara can be left behind, either during this life time or during the transitional processes we call the Bardos.



    it's hard to understand what you are trying to communicate since these terms "yin" and "yang" have very specific meanings and understandings, which are pretty different from what you are presenting here.



    this would imply a purpose to life which seems to be unsubstantiated at this time. our experience of samsara is an experience that contains aspects of suffering... and from the Buddhist view, all sentient beings experience samsara, no amount of wealth or privilidge can change this.

    interesting. i disagree, but interesting nonetheless.

    i would like to say that this is not so. it is my view that western civilization, as a whole, is inseperable from Greek philosophical thought. i, personally, believe that too much credit is given to the Greeks in the West. it seems to be a form of cultural bigotry, from what i can tell.
     
  7. Enkidu

    Enkidu Member

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    Firstly, I want to emphasise that I haven't studied Taoism in any depth, and so my comments are merely my opinion on what yin/yang is trying to symbolise in the context of eastern mystical thought.

    At a surface level, yin/yang could be regarded as a symbol of dualism, with everything having a 'male' and 'female' component [or any other choice of dualistic opposites].

    However, as I understand it, the yin/yang symbol is about reconciling (or transcending) dualism to a monistic framework. The symbol itself shows yin and yang bleeding into each other, to create a whole. You also have a dynamic to the symbol, the idea of being and becoming (the two aspects are separate, but they become their negation and back again).

    As such, I have great difficulty with an idea such as this life is yin, the afterlife is yang.

    [However, even this statement could be spiritually true if you were to apply the transcendence of the symbol to the statement, and get to the point where you say that there is no difference between this life and the afterlife, that they both represent poles of thought, and the 'truth' lies in overcoming the idea of opposites].

    On a final note, re: origin of yin/yang, if by this it is meant the idea of dualistic thought, then I think its fair to say that this is such a basic concept that to say it originated in either eastern or western traditions is meaningless.

    On the other hand, if by origin it is meant where did the idea of creating a symbol that embodies the the transcension of dualism to monism come from, then I'd have to go with an eastern origin (again, based on my very limited knowledge of early Greek thought).
     
  8. Postmaster

    Postmaster Well-Known Member

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    Thank you Vajradha, This is my personal view of life, within the frame work of Christianity. 2 energies, yin and Yang.. Maybe my idea of Yin and Yang is wrong, but from my understanding is the are 2 contradicting energies which oppose each other, but yet need each other in a balance at the same time. My theory has it, that we live in the Yin and anything material is Yin, our brains and our words, and our bodies all dominated by the force. Look at our bodies, we need to excrete, we need to eat, we are not free, are existence involves constant suffering of which is accepted and not realised. So this brings me to the conclusion that our material existence is dominated by Yin and anything material. After life dominated by Yang, however, the devil was a fallen angle so Yin still exists in the after life and Yang still exists in this material existence. This is nothing I read, its my own philosophy. That’s why Jesus Christ died on the cross, he came to give a message to us from the yang and he paid the price. Christian idiology, reagrdless of what anyone says, is that we live to suffer.
     
  9. Master Vigil

    Master Vigil Member

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    The idea of Yin Yang comes the taoists idea of "understanding tao." It represents the dualistic nature of the universe. Light, dark, hot, cold, dry, wet, etc... I no way does it describe an afterlife. Taoists don't even believe in an afterlife. All becomes one with tao, or becomes immortal and therefore never dies. What you also must understand is that a taoist does not believe life is suffering. Nor does one believe it is the opposite. It is simply the natural way of the tao. While a christian believes the purpose of life is to prove to a "god" that they deserve eternity in bliss. A taoist would believe the purpose of life is to live. And the purpose of death is to die. You make a simple philosophy very complex. This is not right. You cannot use a taoist idea to understand christianity, it doesn't work.
     
  10. Postmaster

    Postmaster Well-Known Member

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    The dualistic theory of Yin and Yang as its written down I can't accept.. I'm looking at it from an other point of view and perspective. Yin and Yang as the same concept, 2 contradicting forces which need each other in a balance, to me women and men are the same, fire and water are the same. Are eyes are made out of Yin and yang can’t be seen because of the dominated yin universe we live in. Materialism (Yin) and Spiritualism (Yang). There is a Yin and Yang here in our existence but its no balance, it’s an imbalance towards Yin. And I already explained why simply by looking at nature. She is more of a destructive force then a positive or even a balanced force. After death we will enter a place of opposite, I place where you will not be awaiting your death, a place you will not go screaming into, a place where you will not eat other live to survive, a place where war is not inevitable. How else are you going to pay the price for your exsistence? ad because Yin and Yang are opposites, Yang (God) is larger and greater then Yin. There is more to our meterial exsistence, one that will carry on forever.
     
  11. brucegdc

    brucegdc Moderator

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    If you don't like the theory of Yin and Yang, then by all means formulate a theory of your own - as you've done. Just find other words for the dualism - and don't expect people to respect your theory as long as you misuse terms that have existing meanings. What you're trying to do here comes across as Orwellian Newspeak....
     
  12. Postmaster

    Postmaster Well-Known Member

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    But the Yin and Yang theory belongs to know one only in the minds of people and scripts.... This is my view of Yin and Yang within Christian framework thats all.

    People have the right to agree and disagree. Thats why I started the post, it helps me too.
     
  13. Sacredstar

    Sacredstar Well-Known Member

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  14. Postmaster

    Postmaster Well-Known Member

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    Thank you Sacredstar.. Very interesting.
     
  15. Vajradhara

    Vajradhara One of Many

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    Namaste Postmaster,


    thank you for the post.

    i'm rather with Brucegdc on this one... these terms have had a well defined and understood meaning for well over 4000 years now.

    to change the definitions of the terms to suit ones understanding tends to make it difficult, if not impossible, to actually communicate. when standard meanings are changed for standard terms, we have what Orwell aptly described as "Newspeak".

    i'm curious, though. since your idea is your idea, why use terms from another religious tradition which have established meanings? and, if you chose to use such terms, why would you change their meaning to suit your view?

    i really don't understand the phenomena, to be honest with you.
     
  16. Blue

    Blue Member

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    It seems to me there is a great deal of sense in the Yin and Yang view, which is why perhaps it is so ancient a concept that has survived.

    I think it is eminently sensible to think of everything we perceive in existence, and perhaps conceptualise outside of existence in the material world, as a constant fight for balance within chaos.

    That is why I would always call for a balance of the affective domain with the cognitive and material domain in our thinking.
    When either one dominates, there is chaos and irrationality.
     
  17. Postmaster

    Postmaster Well-Known Member

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    Whatever you do in this existence it will always be dominated by yin, you will never find the balance, sexual emotions, cravings for meat (look at your teeth), natural jealousy, natural anger, fighting this will eat you up and make you suffer yourself... From my perspective anyway. In the next life, awaits balance (Yang). The more you fight it, the better spiritually it is for you. for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction... When you suffer, its not going to waist. You may think you found a balance in this exsistence, but if you have it will start to eat away at you.

    My point of view and very much in tune with Christian idiology.
     
  18. Sacredstar

    Sacredstar Well-Known Member

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    1) Sorry I agree to disagree
    2) When man heals himself of negative emotions, needs and traits, you do indeed find a balance in one's own life. As Jesus said 'the two become one' Jesus the healer knew how to achieve this balance through self mastery over one's emotions. The Gospel of Thomas is good for starters in this respect.

    3) In the next life you will be doing it all over again until you choose to purify the soul through self healing and self development.

    4) Correct suffering is one way of purifying the soul and if one integrates what one as learnt on the journey, one's consciousness is risen into a new state of being.

    5) What evidence do you provide to substantiate this?

    6) You may feel so but it is not the view of Jesus or his direct teachings in the Gospel of Thomas or through his current day disciples.

    I think Yin and Yang is mentioned in the Jesus Sutra's I will see if i can find you a reference.

    Blessings in abundance

    Sacredstar
     
  19. Postmaster

    Postmaster Well-Known Member

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    maybe... :).. I could be wrong, then again who knows. I don't know everything. Actually am limited in many thing I understand and thats a fact :D

    I can't help myself but think (although I have everything good for me) that life and our existence is traped in a negatively dominated force and this is how I live my life.
     
  20. Sacredstar

    Sacredstar Well-Known Member

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    Dear PM I feel your intuition is spot on and I feel you are being guided to look at this yin and yang in your own life and also to view the Taoist Christianity maybe you are not aware that you are being guided at this time but it is no concidence that there is a book called the Jesus Sutra's which is about the very subject of rediscovering the lost religion of Taoist Christianity.

    The Tao give birth to the One, the Origin.
    The One, the Origin, gives birth to the Two.
    The Two give brith to the three.
    The Three give birth to every living thing.
    All things are held in yin and carry yang.
    And they are held together in the Qi of teeming energy.

    Now in the Gospel of Thomas Jesus speaks about the 'two energies becoming one'

    The Tao is before the origin of all. In this sense it is almost like the idea od GOD in Christian thought, except that the Tao has no personality, no emotions, do divinity. It simply is the ultimate principle of all and origin of the origin. The origin gives birth to the two cosmic forces - again, not deities, just forces yin and yang. Yin is the female: dark, damp, winter force of life; yang is the male hot, dry, summer force. Together these two forces are locked in perpetual combat seeking to overcome each other. But this is impossible, for each carries the seed of the other within it.

    I would say it is the similar between the human and divine self a struggle for who will be in control of this human being. A spiritual being having a human experience. Man finds it hard to surrender control and it is only in doing so that one can align and balance one's energies. Male and female within, dark and light.

    Martin Palmer goes on to say that 'The Three are Heaven, Earth and Humanity. Heaven is yang and Earth is yin, and humanity combines both in the pivotal position of the balancer and arbitrator between Yin and Yang.'

    Human anger, unforgiveness, pride, jealousy, envy, anti-love, hate etc disturb this balance and create blockages in the dynamic self healing energetic system (which to me is our soul). When the energetic system is blocked the physical barometer begins to experience the stress and disease that can be a result.

    Love beyond measure

    Sacredstar
     

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