Have you experienced a state of nonduality/infinity/oneness?

Prycejosh1987

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  • the more we practice love, the closer we get to god but god denies no one
This is not entirely true. Love has a definition, my version of love might be different from your version of love, and your version of love might be different to your mothers version of love. Love is one rule for every man, it has to succeed and reach higher and go deeper than our personal perceptions of what we think love is. God is love. Meanings anything not in Gods personality, persona, identity and law is not love. Satan is the embodiment of hatred.
 

Vasu Devan

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Satan is the embodiment of hatred.
I believe that hatred was born in the mind of Man. And if however, Christianity's creed is true, one still has to accept that God has not blocked Satan's flourishing in our world. So God has a love for Satan too.
 

muhammad_isa

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God has a love for Satan too.
Almighty God does not love evil deeds..
What is there to love, about satan?

I do not love satan .. I cannot .. God does not love that which opposes righteous, pious created beings.
..unless your definition of love is different from mine?
 

Vasu Devan

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I do not love satan .. I cannot .. God does not love that which opposes righteous, pious created beings.
..unless your definition of love is different from mine?
Isn't God supposed to have unconditional love? If so, there is nothing God will not love. Evil is loved because, without it, the good would have no meaning.
 

Aupmanyav

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Isn't God supposed to have unconditional love? If so, there is nothing God will not love. Evil is loved because, without it, the good would have no meaning.
For your information, the Iwslamic God does not have unconditional love. Even the Christian God has hell. Unconditional love is media hype.
 

Vasu Devan

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For your information, the Iwslamic God does not have unconditional love. Even the Christian God has hell. Unconditional love is media hype.
Hmmm. Looks like you're right. I never believed Allah or Jehovah preached unconditional love but I just thought Jesus did in his gospels. He died to save us etc. The issue with the Bible is that I find the OT and NT are basically talking about 2 separate, even opposite, gods. So, one can cherry-pick any view from the other book to oppose a view mentioned in the other.

However, I do believe that if a divine being exists, it would need to be unconditionally loving or not be truly divine. I, personally, feel that view, while perhaps somewhat arrogant, was validated in my Oneness experience. Essentially that an Infinite Consciousness would not shut out anyone. That, all would be one, etc...
 
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muhammad_isa

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I do believe that if a divine being exists, it would need to be unconditionally loving or not be truly divine..
Yes, I can understand that..
However, our feelings can sometimes mislead us.

If God was "unconditionally loving", then why does He allow us to suffer now?
If He allows the righteous to suffer in this life, then why should he not allow any soul to suffer in a subsequent one?
 

Vasu Devan

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If God was "unconditionally loving", then why does He allow us to suffer now?
If He allows the righteous to suffer in this life, then why should he not allow any soul to suffer in a subsequent one?

If there was nothing to oppose the feel-good state, wouldn't feeling good become meaningless? Suffering makes us stronger and strive to improve ourselves. Feeling good all the time and having no unsatisfied desires would basically mean a slew of lethargic and inactive humans. We may not desire suffering but we need it.
 
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muhammad_isa

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If, there was nothing to oppose the feel-good state, wouldn't feeling good become meaningless?
Mmm, I know what you mean .. everything is in pairs .. male and female .. hot and cold .. pleasure and pain.
..and yet, the idea of going to heaven [paradise], implies that evil will not be necessary any more.

Suffering makes us stronger and strive to improve ourselves. Feeling good all the time and having no unsatisfied desires would basically mean a slew of lethargic and inactive humans. We may not desire suffering but we need it.
Indeed, suffering serves a purpose .. but there is a difference between loving evil deeds, and loving righteous deeds.
I do not believe in that type of unconditional love.
 

wil

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If God was "unconditionally loving", then why does He allow us to suffer now?
Sometimes it is the very suffering, or what we perceive as suffering that leads us to Oneness.

As a gamer I don't learn a lot by winning, it is in falling down we learn to walk. I have had some downright comfortable understandings about life from dying and years of recovery
 

Vasu Devan

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Mmm, I know what you mean .. everything is in pairs .. male and female .. hot and cold .. pleasure and pain.
..and yet, the idea of going to heaven [paradise], implies that evil will not be necessary any more.
If evil will not be necessary, then everyone would be in heaven. A bunch of people having fun in heaven while others are tortured eternally in hell does not sound like a reality without evil. Will our compassion no longer exist once we are in heaven?
Heaven is still a concept for me. And, currently, I am struggling with some doubts about if I want a reality that is eternal. No matter how good it is.
 

wil

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Heaven is still a concept for me.
When the books were written it was assumed above the Stars

I see kids in school, one hates the teacher and is in hell, the other loves the class and is in heaven. I believe in heaven on Earth and that we can control our perspective. It is choice.

Look neither higher or low it is in our midst
 

muhammad_isa

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If evil will not be necessary, then everyone would be in heaven. A bunch of people having fun in heaven while others are tortured eternally in hell does not sound like a reality without evil.
No, but there will be a separation between the evil and the righteousness.
..and a nation's law serves a similar purpose .. it tries to correct and/or remove the evil from the rest of society.

Heaven is still a concept for me. And, currently, I am struggling with some doubts about if I want a reality that is eternal. No matter how good it is.
Personally, I struggle with enduring physical and mental pain here in this life.
If I thought that I could escape from it at death, euthanasia might seem to be an option..

..but no .. I am a Muslim, and just as Orthodox Christians believe that souls can enter paradise or hell, so do I.
I believe that our souls are immortal, as is God. We belong to God, and to Him we will return.

..so I don't see that we have any choice in the matter. :oops:
 

Vasu Devan

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When the books were written it was assumed above the Stars

I see kids in school, one hates the teacher and is in hell, the other loves the class and is in heaven. I believe in heaven on Earth and that we can control our perspective. It is choice.

Look neither higher or low it is in our midst
I currently do suspect that both heaven and hell exist only on this Earth as a result of our emotions. I also believe that while we cannot control what will happen to us in an uncertain reality, we can control our perspective on what is happening. I believe I can face and accept anything this world we live in may make real for me.
What I am uncertain about is what happens after I die. Neither science nor religion has been able to answer this question with certainty. Everyone has theories only. If one considers those theories, they all seem to point to an eternal afterlife. What is the point of an eternal existence, I wonder? Only Buddhism, as far as I know, offers us a chance to return to Earth after achieving nirvana. I experienced nirvana once, if oneness can be called nirvana. As wonderful as that state was, my memory of the experience is not as strong as it once was (14 years ago) and I wonder if I would truly want it to last forever. A reality of uncertain change, after all, is what makes hope possible for us in this one.
 
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Vasu Devan

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No, but there will be a separation between the evil and the righteousness.
..and a nation's law serves a similar purpose .. it tries to correct and/or remove the evil from the rest of society.
Our laws are woefully inadequate as methods to correct evil. In fact, countries that have created prisons that are loving and non-restrictive are the ones that have had the most success in removing some evil from society.
Love heals, not punishment.
 

wil

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What I am uncertain about is what happens after I die. Neither science nor religion has been able to answer this question with certainty.
If the greatest minds, authors, prophets, and religions have not been able to satisfy you in this regard....maybe like me ya just choose to do what you can in this life, get the most out of it, and not waste time on the next until it gets here!

The second half for me is treading lightly, we all have our carbon quota, how we tip the scales regarding society, community, helping vs hindering, it makes life easier to not make waves, we all don't need commandments and threats of hell to do good, to be good, most of the time
 

Vasu Devan

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If the greatest minds, authors, prophets, and religions have not been able to satisfy you in this regard....maybe like me ya just choose to do what you can in this life, get the most out of it, and not waste time on the next until it gets here!

The second half for me is treading lightly, we all have our carbon quota, how we tip the scales regarding society, community, helping vs hindering, it makes life easier to not make waves, we all don't need commandments and threats of hell to do good, to be good, most of the time
Well, yeah. For now, since I am able to accept much, I reckon it don't matter what's around the corner as long as I can deal with what's starin' me in the face.
Anyways, all this pondering of the afterlife is just an offshoot of fear...or worry rather. My personal experience with my psychosis has given me almost a positive outlook on fear when it is actually brewing. Good adrenaline rush. I try not to worry but it's my analytical coder mind that has me worrying about imaginary, future scenarios when I have nothing to do. Boredom has become worse than fear.
 

muhammad_isa

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Our laws are woefully inadequate as methods to correct evil. In fact, countries that have created prisons that are loving and non-restrictive are the ones that have had the most success in removing some evil from society.
Love heals, not punishment.
No, no, no.
There has to be a balance.

Some people will not learn anything when they are warned, they just go and repeat their robbery and assaults.
Almighty God is the Fairest of All judges .. nobody gets punished more than they deserve.
..and don't forget the victims .. they sometimes suffer severely .. murder, rape etc.

I don't personally rate prison, unless it is absolutely necessary.
Righteous people suffer as a consequence.
If prisons are like "holiday camps", they are $1000's a week per person.
That leaves less money to help the poor unfortunate, who are not guilty of anything.
 

muhammad_isa

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Anyways, all this pondering of the afterlife is just an offshoot of fear...or worry rather. My personal experience with my psychosis has given me almost a positive outlook on fear when it is actually brewing. Good adrenaline rush. I try not to worry but it's my analytical coder mind that has me worrying about imaginary, future scenarios when I have nothing to do. Boredom has become worse than fear.
I suffer in a similar way.
..but I see that my belief has saved me from negative thoughts, in as much as
I recognise that it is an attack from satan, to suggest that dying is a way out.
Most people of sound mind do not believe that it is, regardless of faith.
 
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