My difference with the teaching of Bahaollah

[RJM]

I been reading it for 39 years and have not scratched rhe surface

The Baha’i don’t seem to ask much more of people than to read their material. Its not a lot to ask? But Its a genuine problem IMO that the reading matter is published in such laboured English, when clearer language is obviously possible?

Perhaps concerned Baha’i could petition the House of Justice about the English publications?

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

If so, then humans will never understand the message of Bahaollah. Clearly, he failed in his mission. Why did he make it so lengthy? 17,000 'tablets' apart from the books? And on top of it writings by his son, great grandson, your House of Justice and various other Bahai personages!

We are an ever advancing civilization. The dispensation of Baha’u’llah will span 500,000 years. This message is suited for 1000 years, we are just at the beginning. The future Messengers will further expand on the knowledge released by the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

The Bible foretold this in John 16 we read;

[12] I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. [13] Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come."

Notice Baha'u'llah will guide us unto all truth and will show us things to come, exactly what happened.

When war ceases, when we find unity, the capacity of humanity will be released from its bandage to this material world and great things will be uncovered. At the moment we have used science mostly for the destruction of each other, a lot of good discoveries were born out of the need to find weapons, rather then to assist humanity to find its God given capacity.

I would rather discuss this, than to approach it from having to defend the legitimacy of the Message of Baha’u’llah.

Regards Tony

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

It patently does, by declaring that the New Testament has been corrupted, and the doctrines founded thereon are false.

Yes it does.

By 'fuller understanding' and 'clearer apprehension' means the Baha'i understanding.

Here it's metaphysically in error. Religious 'Truth' is absolute in the sense that it enables the faithful to attain to that which it speaks. The exoteric eye sees these truths as relative, conditioned by time, place, human understanding, etc ... the esoteric eye sees the timeless and eternal truth transmitted in the world's sacra doctrina.

Another metaphysical error. For 'those with the eye to see', Revelation is not constrained in any way. You're applying a temporal condition to the Divine activity.

Then one is looking at the error in the actions of some Baha'is and not what is contained within the Message of Baha’u’llah. Also I can offer that one is looking for error in a God given Message.

Abdul'baha was the true example of a Bahai.

The question I can ask you is, did Jesus belittle the Jew in giving the New Testament, or did it encourage the Jew to find a greater potential in their understandings of their own scriptures and open the way for greater service to humanity?

What would happen if a Christian was to consider that Baha'u'llah has indeed offered a greater understanding of the New Testament, given of God, as per John 16?

"[12] I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. [13] Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come."

Regards Tony

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

It seems to me that every new religion or cult since Jesus Christ relies upon interpreting Jesus in some way or another. Jesus is always a prime reference. They all seem to need to piggyback on Jesus.

There's never been a shortage of self declared new messiahs, and they will always keep appearing.

Jesus is good currency in the messiah game. It's easier than coming up with something original and different, lol

The key here is that both the Bab and Baha'u'llah have not come in Jesus Name.

Most false prophets use Jesus and the Bible as their Message, or another revealed scripture as the base of their claim, they do not give a new Message.

People have to think deeply on this and not reject every Message given, this is the mistake still made by the custodians of the Bible, the Jews.

The Bab Message was born out of and also foretold in Islam, as was the Message of Baha’u’llah, they came in the Name of all the Messengers, not the name of Jesus, but 'Annointed', they were Christ.

This requires a lot of discussion.

Regards Tony

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

The Baha’i don’t seem to ask much more of people than to read their material. Its not a lot to ask? But Its a genuine problem IMO that the reading matter is published in such laboured English, when clearer language is obviously possible?

Perhaps concerned Baha’i could petition the House of Justice about the English publications?

If Shoghi Effendi Chose the Kings James English as the standard for translation, then that will not change, there is a good reason it was.

Better still, there will be a One World Language, which will be taught in all Nations. Eventually it will be translated into that language and I the future, the Messengers will most likely use the language we were all taught.

If we really want to know what Baha'u'llah offered, we would need to study both Persian and Arabic.

This is an age of transition though, we first need to embrace unity of the entire human race and introduce that world language.

Regards Tony

 

[Aupmanyav]

We are an ever advancing civilization. The dispensation of Baha’u’llah will span 500,000 years.
When war ceases, ..
I would rather discuss this, than to approach it from having to defend the legitimacy of the Message of Baha’u’llah.

IMHO, Bahaollah will not last even 50 years. Science is progressing fast. People will abandon superstitions beliefs like God and messengers.
Wars will always be there. World peace is a utopia.
Why do you hesitate to discuss the legitimacy of Bahaollah?

 

[badger]

Point 10 is new to me, do you have some pointers?

Aup is right. I can't show Bahauallah's words about police forces, militia, criminal laws and punishments, etc because my computer has blown up and am waiting for replacement.
I'm being picked on by Big-G!!!!

 

[RJM]

they came in the Name of all the Messengers, not the name of Jesus, but 'Annointed', they were Christ.

And Christ warned about it:

"For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many." (Matthew 24:5)

Baha'ullah takes upon himself the mantle of all previous messengers, including Jesus, according to Baha'u'llah?

The Bab Message was born out of and also foretold in Islam, as was the Message of Baha’u’llah

Jesus is all over the Quran. Islam was born out of reinterpreting Jesus. IMO the person who got closest to inventing an original new religion that has no reference to Jesus was L, Ron Hubbard's Scientology

Better still, there will be a One World Language, which will be taught in all Nations. Eventually it will be translated into that language and I the future, the Messengers will most likely use the language we were all taught.

I hope it sounds nothing like the extremely poor Baha'i attempt to recreate the power of the King James Bible English

Just my own thoughts ...

 

[muhammad_isa]

..Islam was born out of reinterpreting Jesus..

No it wasn't..
It was a revelation from God Almighty to Muhammad, peace be with him.

 

[RJM]

It was a revelation from God Almighty to Muhammad, peace be with him.

Allowing that -- Jesus is still all over the Quran

Baha'i inherit Jesus from Islam

 

[Cino]

The question I can ask you is, did Jesus belittle the Jew in giving the New Testament, or did it encourage the Jew to find a greater potential in their understandings of their own scriptures and open the way for greater service to humanity?

Jewish-Christian relations were (and in many places continue to be) quite strained. There were persecutions, even genocide.

Do you see how people might be nervous when they take this historical precedent as a model of how Bahai-Christian (or any older religion) relations might work out in a future where Baha'i was the norm?

 

[Cino]

Most false prophets use Jesus and the Bible as their Message, or another revealed scripture as the base of their claim, they do not give a new Message.

People have to think deeply on this and not reject every Message given, this is the mistake still made by the custodians of the Bible, the Jews.

Oh come on, that's a really old trope. And it has caused a lot of suffering, murders, that kind of thing. Repeating this sits really badly with your message of peace.

I encourage you to think deeply about mouthing the literal words of mass-murderers.

 

[RJM]

People have to think deeply on this and not reject every Message given, this is the mistake still made by the custodians of the Bible, the Jews.

I encourage you to think deeply about mouthing the literal words of mass-murderers.

I agree. People who think deeply about it are going to be disturbed at the way Baha'i assume authority over all other faiths, imo

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

I will not longer participate in this OP.

Regards Tony

 

[RJM]

I will not longer participate in this OP.

Regards Tony

You are correcting Jews about their religion @Tone Bristow-Stagg * Jesus does not meet the Jewish conditions for their Messiah

You are also correcting Christians and everyone else about how to understand their own relgions.

*Baha'u'llah was writing before the Holocaust. Surely post war generations should know better?

 

[RJM]

I'm done with this OP too. There's no new knowledge here, imo ... sorry

 

[Cino]

I will not longer participate in this OP.

Regards Tony

As you wish.

 

[muhammad_isa]

You are correcting Jews about their religion @Tone Bristow-Stagg * Jesus does not meet the Jewish conditions for their Messiah

Isn't that rather hypocritical?
Why do you accept Jesus? Because you are a gentile?

 

[RJM]

Isn't that rather hypocritical?
Why do you accept Jesus? Because you are a gentile?

I do not believe I have the right to tell people from other faiths how to understand their own religion, or insist they change to believe as I do.

Am out of this thread. It's heading for trouble, imo ...

 

[muhammad_isa]

It's heading for trouble, imo ...

I didn't start it .. @Aupmanyav did.