Enoch

wil

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a figment of your imagination
Where does he fit in your view?

Where does the book fit in your belief?

If he sits 7 seats from G!d, who is in the other 12? (Idk if he is on the right or the left 7 seats away)

Or is Enoch belief even abrahamic?
 

The Anointed

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Where does he fit in your view?

Where does the book fit in your belief?

If he sits 7 seats from G!d, who is in the other 12? (Idk if he is on the right or the left 7 seats away)

Or is Enoch belief even abrahamic?

Concerning the sons of God who descended in the days of Jared the father of Enoch, the sons of God who Enoch calls ‘Watchers, or Observers,’ of who, ‘Azazel,’ was one of those observers, we read in the Book of Enoch the prophet, chapter 9 to chapter 10; “And Michael said to the heavenly Lord, "Seest what ‘AZAZEL’ hath done, who hath taught all unrighteousness on earth and has revealed the eternal secrets which were preserved in heaven, which men were striving to learn. And Semjaza, to whom you have given authority to bear rule over his associates (The other 199 sons of God) and they have gone to the daughters of men upon the earth and have slept with them and revealed to them all kinds of sin etc.

Semjaza, the leader of the observers, taught enchantments, and root cutting, among other sons of God who revealed to the women all kinds of sin, were Armaros, who taught the resolving of enchantments, Baralqual taught astrology, Kokabel the constellations, Ezeqeel the knowledge of the clouds, Araqiel the signs of the earth, Shamsiel the signs of the sun, and Sariel the course of the moon, etc.

But Azazel taught men to make swords, and knives, and shields, and breastplates, and made known to them the metals of the earth and the art of working them, and bracelets, and ornaments, and the use of antimony, and the beautifying of the eyelids, and all kinds of costly stones, and all colouring tintures etc.

Tubal-Cain, was from an age of man prior to Seth the first in the line of descendants from Adam according to the genealogy recorded in Genesis 5: and Tubal-Cain had been an instructor of every artificer in brass and iron, which knowledge was stored in heaven when that age came to its end)

The Lord, through his only begotten prophet Enoch, then passed judgment on the angels who had forsaken their own original habitat and came down and defiled themselves with the daughters of men, saying to them; “You have been in heaven, but all the mysteries had not yet been revealed to you, and you knew only worthless ones, and these in the hardness of your hearts you have made known to the women, and through these mysteries women and men work much evil on earth.”

They were then to be bound and cast into the valley of the earth until seventy generations had passed, (Jesus was seventy generations from Enoch, see Luke 3: 23-38) but Azazel was punished separate from the others, See the Book of Enoch the Prophet 10: 4-9; “And again the Lord said to Raphael: Bind Azazel hand and foot, and cast him into the darkness: and make an opening in the desert, which is in Dudael, and cast him therein. And place upon him rough and jagged rocks, and cover him with darkness, and let him abide there forever, and cover his face that he may not see light. And on the day of the great judgement, he shall be cast into the fire. And heal the earth which the angels have corrupted, and proclaim the healing of the earth, that they may heal the plague, and that all the children of men may not perish through all the secret things that the Watchers have disclosed and have taught their sons. And the whole earth has been corrupted through the works that were taught by Azazel: TO HIM ASCRIBE ALL SIN.

Moses, who was the adopted grandson of Pharaoh and who would have been afforded the best education in the country, may have been initiated into the circle of the guardians of the sacred secrets.

Moses took the bread or the sacred teachings of Egypt [The land of First Born] and removed the yeast and gave to the children of Israel the regulations, rules and laws, that the Israelites were to keep for all time. --------- In one of the religious regulations established by Moses, Aaron would place his hand upon the head of a scapegoat, symbolically transferring the sins of Israel to the goat, which was then sent out into the wilderness to Azazel.

In the margins of the Good News Catholic Study Bible, Leviticus 16: concerning “Azazel” it is written by the Catholic authors of the GNB; ‘AZAZEL:’ “The meaning of this Hebrew word is unknown: it may be the name of a desert demon.” ‘Azazel’ see Leviticus16: 8-10.

The Orthodox Christian religious organisations are ignorant as to who Azazel is, because they have rejected the words of Enoch, who is the chosen cornerstone to who all the spirits of the righteous are gathered in the creation of the new temple of light, which is to replace God’s old tent/tabernacle, the body of mankind as the ruler of all creation, wherein the innermost sanctuary, behind the veil of the flesh dwells the evolving spirit of ‘The Son of Man:’ The stone that has been rejected by the builders of the universal church of Emperor Constantine has turned out to be the most important Stone of all.

But why did the builders of the Jewish church reject the writing of the righteous Enoch

Leviticus 16: 7-10; Then he shall take the two goats to the entrance of the Tent of the LORD's presence. There he shall draw lots, using two stones, one marked “for the LORD” and the other “for Azazel”. Aaron shall sacrifice the goat chosen by lot for the LORD and offer it as a sin offering. The goat chosen for Azazel shall be presented alive to the LORD and sent off into the desert to Azazel, in order to take away the sins of the people.

16: 20-22; When Aaron has finished performing the ritual to purify the Most Holy Place, the rest of the Tent of the LORD's presence, and the altar, he shall present to the LORD the live goat chosen for Azazel. He shall put both his hands on the goat's head and confess over it all the evils, sins, and rebellions of the people of Israel, and so transfer them to the goat's head. Then the goat is to be driven off into the desert by someone appointed to do it. The goat will carry all their sins away with him into some uninhabited land to Azazel. To whom all sins have been ascribed.

So I would say that the Enoch belief is Abrahamic.
 
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Thomas

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Where does he fit in your view?
As a matter of historical interest.
Where does the book fit in your belief?
He doesn't.
Or is Enoch belief even abrahamic?
That Enoch was a stalwart who, in the end, 'walks with God' (cf Genesis 5) is about all that we know.

The Enochian literature is an example of taking a Biblical personage and running with it. The references I've given elsewhere are a lot to take in, but of particular interest to me is the process by which 'orthodox' interior spiritual processes – dreams, visions, oracles, etc – the role of the prophet in the Hebrew Scriptures, become embodied in actual beings – whether angelic, demonic, or 'translated' humans who now have a whole new life in the literature that poured out over a period of about 300BC to 200AD.

That, and the continuation of this process in the development of gnostic literature, in the Kaballah, in Islam, and so on.
 

The Anointed

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As a matter of historical interest.

He doesn't.

That Enoch was a stalwart who, in the end, 'walks with God' (cf Genesis 5) is about all that we know.

The Enochian literature is an example of taking a Biblical personage and running with it. The references I've given elsewhere are a lot to take in, but of particular interest to me is the process by which 'orthodox' interior spiritual processes – dreams, visions, oracles, etc – the role of the prophet in the Hebrew Scriptures, become embodied in actual beings – whether angelic, demonic, or 'translated' humans who now have a whole new life in the literature that poured out over a period of about 300BC to 200AD.

That, and the continuation of this process in the development of gnostic literature, in the Kaballah, in Islam, and so on.
What do you think of the similarities between Enoch and Imhotep?

In Ancient Egyptian religion, Ptah was the God that called everything into existence. He was also regarded as the father of the human sage Imhotep, who was later deified and became a god.

Imhotep, was called the “God of Medicine,” “Prince of Peace,” and a “Type of Christ,” as was Melchizedek. Imhotep was worshipped as a god and healer from approximately 2850 B.C. to 525 B.C., and as a full deity from 525 B.C. to 550 A.D. Imhotep was a known scribe, chief lector, priest, architect, astronomer and a creator of drugs and medicines from plants. For 3000 years he was worshipped as a god in Greece and Rome. Early Christians worshipped him as the “Prince of Peace,” ‘Salem.’ A poet and philosopher, Imhotep coined the saying “Eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we shall die.


The books of Enoch were banned by dogmatic authorities of the Roman church of Emperor Constantine such as Hilary, Jerome and Augustine in the fourth century C. E., and by the middle of the fifth century had completely passed out of circulation and were thought lost for millennia,

The similarities between Imhotep and Enoch of who it is said, was the first man to learn writing and of who it is said in scripture, was translated in order that he should never experience death, and who, like Imhotep, was chosen as the heir of ‘The Most High’ and also deified and became a god are quite intriguing don't you think.
 

The Anointed

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Jubilees 4; `17, And he [ENOCH] was the first among men that are born on earth who learnt writing and knowledge and wisdom, etc.
21- 23; And he [Enoch] was moreover with the angels of God these six jubilees of years, and they showed him everything which is on earth and in the heavens, the rule of the sun, and he wrote down everything. And he testified to the Watchers, who had sinned with the daughters of men; for these had begun to unite themselves, so as to be defiled, with the daughters of men, and Enoch testified against (them) all. And he was taken from amongst the children of men, and we conducted him into the Garden of Eden in majesty and honour, and behold there he writes down the condemnation and judgment of the world, and all the wickedness of the children of men. And on account of it (God) brought the waters of the flood upon all the land of Eden. 'EGYPT.'
 

Thomas

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Jeez, Wil ... this is dark, coming from you ...
What do you think of the similarities between Enoch and Imhotep?
Typical of the process called Interpretatio graeca (Greek translation') – the interpretation of figures by means of Greek models" – a method used by the Greeks, the Romans, and still active today, by which mythological and/or religious figures are compared equivalences or shared characteristics.

In the case of Enoch, Imhotep, Melchizedec and others, starts with a figure loaded with significance, but about which almost nothing is actually known, and thus fertile soil for a mythology and a cult to develop. Enoch and Imhotep, or Imhotep and Joseph, and so on.

Imhotep is spoken of as the author of Egyptian wisdom texts, and/or as a physician, yet no text from his lifetime mentions these capacities and no text mentions his name in the 1200 years following his death. The first references his healing abilities occur 2,200 years after his death.

Imhotep's status rises to that of a god of medicine and healing. Eventually, he is equated with Thoth, the god of architecture, mathematics, and medicine, and patron of scribes – Imhotep's cult merges him with his own tutelary deity. asnd then, of course, cross-references with every other mythology that references Thoth.

The Greeks also equated Imhotep with Asklepios, their own god of health who also was a deified mortal.

A papyrus dating to the 2nd century CE, preserves a long story about Imhotep. The Pharaoh Djoser plays a prominent role in the story, which also mentions Imhotep's family; his father the god Ptah, his mother Khereduankh, and his younger sister Renpetneferet. At one point Djoser desires Renpetneferet, and Imhotep disguises himself and tries to rescue her. The text also refers to the royal tomb of Djoser. Part of the legend includes an anachronistic battle between the Old Kingdom and the Assyrian armies where Imhotep fights an Assyrian sorceress in a duel of magic.

In Ancient Egyptian religion, Ptah was the God that called everything into existence. He was also regarded as the father of the human sage Imhotep, who was later deified and became a god.
Not so ancient, really, no later than 200AD, but probably not too long before that date.

Imhotep, was called the “God of Medicine,” “Prince of Peace,” and a “Type of Christ,” as was Melchizedek.
Where is Imhotep called a 'Type of Christ'? Without context, I can't comment.

Early Christians worshipped him as the “Prince of Peace,” ‘Salem.’
Again, where's that from?

A poet and philosopher, Imhotep coined the saying “Eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we shall die.
Again, apocryphal.

The books of Enoch were banned by dogmatic authorities ...
Are you sure? By whom, and when, exactly?

The similarities between Imhotep and Enoch ... are quite intriguing don't you think.
Yes, inasmuch as they evidence the period of creative elaboration when 'mysterious' figures about whom almost nothing is known spin off a great body of literature ... in the case of Imhotep, the major mythical elements are relatively late, and without any foundation from the era in which he lived.

The Book(s) of Enoch similarly date from 200BC-200AD and evidence the dialogue between Hebrew and Hellenic mystical speculation – I do like the scholarly idea that abstract psychological states and slowly embodied and turned into beings. Hence 'azazel' most likely a compound of 'ez' (עֵז goat) and azel (אָזַל go away) and meaning scapegoat, a creature sent out into the wilderness carrying the sins of the people (compare to sin-eater), the term becomes personified in the character of a demon of the desert/desolate places, and then the author of the books of Enoch makes the leap to a minor deity, a 'lesser Jahweh' and attaches Enoch and ... and ...

Take Hermes Trismegistus – the legendary author of the Hermetica – a syncretic combination of the Greek god Hermes and the Egyptian god Thoth. These ancient and medieval pseudepigraphical texts are nevertheless well worth perusal.

His appeal is timeless, continuing through medieval Christendom right up to today, as well as in Islamic and Baháʼí writings, being associated with the prophet Idris.

Hermes was combined with Thoth. Imhotep had been assimilated to Thoth in the classical and Hellenistic periods. The scribe Amenhotep and a wise man named Teôs were coequal deities of wisdom, science, and medicine; and, thus, they were placed alongside Imhotep in shrines dedicated to Thoth–Hermes during the Ptolemaic Kingdom.

Hermetic literature among the Egyptians was concerned with conjuring spirits and animating statues, inform writings on Greco-Babylonian astrology and the emergence of alchemy. In a parallel tradition, Hermetic philosophy rationalized religious cult practices and offered the adept a means of personal ascension from the constraints of physical being. (Hermeticism is quite distinct from Gnosticism, developing contemporaneously.)

The belief in a prisca theologia, a single, perennial philosophy given to Adam that informs all religions led Christian writers like Lactantius, Augustine, Marsilio Ficino, Campanella, and Giovanni Pico della Mirandola to consider Hermes Trismegistus to be a wise pagan prophet who foresaw the coming of Christianity. In order to demonstrate the verity of the prisca theologia, they appropriated the Hermetic teachings and Hermes Trismegistus was held either a contemporary of Moses, or in a line Adam, Enoch, Noah, and an Egyptian priest king – Hermes Trismegistus.

Isaac Casaubon in 1614 showed that the Hermetic writings must postdate Christianity, and Renaissance Hermeticism largely collapsed.

Hermes does not appear in the Qur'an but Islamic hagiographers and chroniclers identified Hermes Trismegistus with Idris, the Islamic prophet of surahs 19.57 and 21.85, whom was also identified with Enoch, so you come round in a circle ...
 

talib-al-kalim

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The in formation about Enoch in the Torah is quite short, only Gen 5:18-24. The passage was later interpreted as if Enoch was the first man in Heaven alive. This is the entry point to Enoch, the mythological person of the pre-Abarahamic tradition, as someone who may have obtained heavenly secrets. The myths around him are not traditions that go back to Noah but rather later projections on this figure.

The books of Enoch (1Enoch, a large book in five sections, related in Ethiopian by the Church of Ethiopia, besides 2Enoch, related by Slavonic monks, and 3Enoch, related in Hebrew by Jewish scribes) are qualified pseudoepigraphs (books written under a false identity, in this case: in the name of Enoch) both by historical scientists, Jewish religious scolars and Christian religious authorities. The books themselves are mostly ignored in Islam but they had indirect influence on Islamic scholars. 1Enoch was taken into the Bible canon only by the Christian Church of Ethiopia, the others were never considered to be integrated to the canonical writings. All three were written by Jews and contain visions of Heaven and Earth.

We do not know the origin of the contents. It is likely not a personal vision of a prophet but rather a collection of traditions that have their roots in the Parsic prophcy, possibly going back to Zarathustra (a.s.) who prophesised that the aeon in which God has allowed the evil spirit (Angra Manju/Ahriman/Iblis/Shaitan/Diabolos/Devil) to callenge him, is limited to 1000 years, followed by an aeon where the evil is defeated. The Parsic writings that go into detail here were written much later than the books of Enoch, so that we do not know to what extent the content of the book of Enoch goes back to early Zostrian traditions.

In spite of its confuse origin 1Enoch is an important religious book as it contains the oldest vision of the End of Time and the World therafter (Jannah), which is not only often imitated in later pseudoepigrahic literature, but also (partly) confirmed and elaborated in the Gospel and in the Quran.

I do not see 1Enoch as a pure revelation, a source of truth but rather as a document that shows to what extent the imagination of the Aeon to come had developed in Judaism before the Gospel and the Quran, even though it cannot be traced to a well-known prophet.
 
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The Anointed

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I do not see 1Enoch as a pure revelation, a source of truth but rather as a document that shows to what extent the imagination of the Aeon to come had developed in Judaism before the Gospel and the Quran, even though it cannot be traced to a well-known prophet.

Then good for you, it is your God given right to believe as you wish to believe, but unlike you, I happen to believe the Holy Scriptures which state that Enoch at the age of 365 was taken bodily to the throne of the most high in the creation where he was translated from a body of corruptible matter into a glorious body of brilliant and blinding light in order that he should never experience death and was anointed as the heir and successor to the throne of the Most-HIGH.

The Most-High in the creation being the Lord of Creatures, 'MAN,' the gathering of righteous human spirits, the great heavenly simulacrum which is the sacrifice that God has prepared for us from which, Enoch was the first to be released, which makes Enoch 'The Son of Man' 'The heir and successor to the Most High' and the God chosen by Abraham who said to Moses in Deuteronomy 18: 18-19; "I will send them a prophet like you from among their own people; I will put MY WORDS in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command, and whosoever will not heed MY WORDS, which he shall speak in MY NAME, I will surely punish”

Peter confirms that Jesus was that man, when, concerning the man Jesus, he says in. Acts 3: 22-23; "For Moses said, ‘The Lord your God will send you a prophet, just as he sent me, and he will be one of your own people. You are to obey everything that he tells you to do. Anyone who does not obey that prophet shall be separated from God's people and destroyed.’
 

talib-al-kalim

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Then good for you, it is your God given right to believe as you wish to believe, but unlike you, I happen to believe the Holy Scriptures which state that Enoch at the age of 365 was taken bodily to the throne of the most high in the creation where he was translated from a body of corruptible matter into a glorious body of brilliant and blinding light in order that he should never experience death and was anointed as the heir and successor to the throne of the Most-HIGH.

The Most-High in the creation being the Lord of Creatures, 'MAN,' the gathering of righteous human spirits, the great heavenly simulacrum which is the sacrifice that God has prepared for us from which, Enoch was the first to be released, which makes Enoch 'The Son of Man' 'The heir and successor to the Most High' and the God chosen by Abraham who said to Moses in Deuteronomy 18: 18-19; "I will send them a prophet like you from among their own people; I will put MY WORDS in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command, and whosoever will not heed MY WORDS, which he shall speak in MY NAME, I will surely punish”

Peter confirms that Jesus was that man, when, concerning the man Jesus, he says in. Acts 3: 22-23; "For Moses said, ‘The Lord your God will send you a prophet, just as he sent me, and he will be one of your own people. You are to obey everything that he tells you to do. Anyone who does not obey that prophet shall be separated from God's people and destroyed.’
Actually, the scriptures are as holy as the Word of God it contains. But even scriptures that do contain Prophetic speech may be profanated if it contains a lot of human fantasy. We find all shades between prophecy and fantasy in ancient writings, and we are not really able to discern this clearly. For true, it is finally a decision of faith to the author (who is sometimes unknown, sometimes indicated, sometimes attributed to the writing in a later time, even in the Bible Canon). In your first part, you seem to cite the Book of Jubilees (4:16-26) which is estimated to have a similar age as 1Enoch, compiled on teh Torah (which certainly preceeds it in age) and some agadot (legends).

I do not get you why you are saying that Enoch is the Son-Of-Men according to the vision in 1Enoch; the Son-Of-Men is there evidently not Enoch, who is speaking in 1st person.

I do not get your step from Enoch (a.s.) to the Prophet Jesus (p.b.u.h), either.
 

moralorel

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Where does he fit in your view?

Where does the book fit in your belief?

If he sits 7 seats from G!d, who is in the other 12? (Idk if he is on the right or the left 7 seats away)

Or is Enoch belief even abrahamic?
Enoch was a just man who I'm sure you've already seen so much scripture about on here, especially lately.

I actually read the books of Enoch. The first part sounds like it very well could be authentic. I doubt it was written by him, but it seems to be in harmony with the Bible. Even Jude read from it. But the books of Enoch remind me of 80's movies. You make a good movie. And then someone comes along and decides to make a low budget awful sequel or two. That is what the other two parts of Enoch seem like to me. You have Indiana Jones and the Lost Arc.... and then later on someone says "Hey, let's put aliens in a sequel!". The other two parts of Enoch are obvious midrash and fiction.

I could quote examples, but my head is spinning from all of the Enoch quotes flooding this forum right now. You seem bright enough to get my point.
 
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Thomas

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I actually read the books of Enoch. The first part sounds like it very well could be authentic. I doubt it was written by him, but it seems to be in harmony with the Bible. Even Jude read from it.
One of the reasons why 1 Enoch was ruled out by the Jews was its obvious dependence on existing Hebrew Scripture – so they saw it as derivative and not original. Elements are a gloss of Deuteronomy ...

As for quoting Enoch, that in itself is no guarantee. One of St Paul's notable citations is from the Cretan poet/philosopher Epimenides (c600BC):
"They fashioned a tomb for thee, O holy and high one
The Cretans, always liars, evil beasts, idle bellies!
But thou art not dead: thou livest and abidest forever,
For in thee we live and move and have our being."
— Epimenides, Cretica (in praise of Zeus)

The citation being Acts 17:28 "For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as some also of your own poets said"
 

The Anointed

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The citation being Acts 17:28 "For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as some also of your own poets said"

Let's take Paul's words in context.

Acts chapter 17 verses from 27 to 31.

ACTS 17; 27, He did this so that they would look for him, and perhaps find him as they felt about for him. Yet 'GOD' is actually not far from any one of us;

ACTS 17; 28, as someone has said, ‘In him [GOD] we live and move and exist.’ It is as some of your poets have said, ‘We too are his children.’

Acts 17; 29; Since we are GOD'S children, we should not suppose that his nature is anything like an image of gold or silver or stone, shaped by human art and skill.

Acts 17; 30; God has overlooked the times when people did not know him, but now he commands all of them everywhere to turn away from their evil ways.

Acts 17; 31; For he has fixed a day [The Great Sabbath of one thousand years, the Day of the Lord] in which he will judge the whole world with justice by means of a 'MAN' he has 'CHOSEN'. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that 'MAN' from death!”

Who was that 'MAN' who GOD raised from death Thomas?
 
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Faithfulservant

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Let's take Paul's words in context.

Acts chapter 17 verses from 27 to 31.

ACTS 17; 27, He did this so that they would look for him, and perhaps find him as they felt about for him. Yet 'GOD' is actually not far from any one of us;

ACTS 17; 28, as someone has said, ‘In him [GOD] we live and move and exist.’ It is as some of your poets have said, ‘We too are his children.’

Acts 17; 29; Since we are GOD'S children, we should not suppose that his nature is anything like an image of gold or silver or stone, shaped by human art and skill.

Acts 17; 30; God has overlooked the times when people did not know him, but now he commands all of them everywhere to turn away from their evil ways.

Acts 17; 31; For he has fixed a day [The Great Sabbath of one thousand years, the Day of the Lord] in which he will judge the whole world with justice by means of a 'MAN' he has 'CHOSEN'. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that 'MAN' from death!”

Who was that 'MAN' who GOD raised from death Thomas?
Lazarus? Or Jainus' daughter?
 

The Anointed

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Lazarus? Or Jainus' daughter?

The physical bodies of Lazarus and Jainus' daughter who Jesus awakened from their death like sleep have long since been returned to the elements of the earth from which they were created, and undoubtedly, like all those who died before and after them, their disembodied spirits are at rest in Christ as they await the great day of judgement.

The words Jesus spoke were the words of the Lord who raised the man Jesus from death and gave him divine glory and the miracles worked through Jesus were the miracles of our heavenly Father.
 
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moralorel

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One of the reasons why 1 Enoch was ruled out by the Jews was its obvious dependence on existing Hebrew Scripture – so they saw it as derivative and not original. Elements are a gloss of Deuteronomy ...

As for quoting Enoch, that in itself is no guarantee. One of St Paul's notable citations is from the Cretan poet/philosopher Epimenides (c600BC):
"They fashioned a tomb for thee, O holy and high one
The Cretans, always liars, evil beasts, idle bellies!
But thou art not dead: thou livest and abidest forever,
For in thee we live and move and have our being."
— Epimenides, Cretica (in praise of Zeus)

The citation being Acts 17:28 "For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as some also of your own poets said"
Agreed. There are many letters and writings that we don't know about. Enoch could have just been one written to emulate Hebrew scriptures and possibly added a few more writings from these letters that we currently don't have copies of. That's probably why it seemed like it could be authentic. It is an interesting read, but I haven't put any faith in it being authentic.
 

The Anointed

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The Anointed wrote.....
In Ancient Egyptian religion, Ptah was the God that called everything into existence. He was also regarded as the father of the human sage Imhotep, who was later deified and became a god.

Not so ancient, really, no later than 200AD, but probably not too long before that date.

Ptah is an Egyptian creator god who conceived the world and brought it into being through the creative power of speech. A hymn to Ptah dating to the Twenty-second Dynasty of Egypt says Ptah "crafted the world in the design of his heart," and the Shabaka Stone from the Twenty-Fifth Dynasty, says Ptah "gave life to all the gods and their kas as well, through this heart and this tongue.

 
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Thomas

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The Anointed wrote.....
A hymn to Ptah dating to the Twenty-second Dynasty of Egypt says Ptah "crafted the world in the design of his heart,"
The 22nd Dynasty dates approx 943BC to 716BC.

and the Shabaka Stone from the Twenty-Fifth Dynasty, says Ptah "gave life to all the gods and their kas as well, through this heart and this tongue.
And the 25th from 744BC to 656 BC.

So these were the product of a cult with over 2,500 years of mythmaking. Ptah was always a creator god.
 
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