American government vs trans rights

Cyberwolf

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we all have seen the the headlines and now it feels more of a war ground of free speech it seems that the federal government has ignored this issue
there are some things that make sense ie banning drag shows from public places where children are present.
but this surfaces a new question should human rights be dragged into politics
no they should not be
 
we all have seen the the headlines and now it feels more of a war ground of free speech it seems that the federal government has ignored this issue
there are some things that make sense ie banning drag shows from public places where children are present.
but this surfaces a new question should human rights be dragged into politics
no they should not be
Though in someways, politics involves human rights -- some people stake their political ideologies on whether or not human rights are being protected. I think that really is how the public and political side of the trans movement got started and gathered steam
 
we all have seen the the headlines and now it feels more of a war ground of free speech it seems that the federal government has ignored this issue
there are some things that make sense ie banning drag shows from public places where children are present.
but this surfaces a new question should human rights be dragged into politics
no they should not be
In some cases I agree, but there are times that reasonable politics ought to be. Heck, I posted a link to an article about a Daisy Scout who, along with her mother and her little sister, went to a West Hollywood neighbourhood to sell Girl Scout cookies, not once but twice (sold out both times!)

Since the LGBT+ is more often than not need protections by federal governments due to being victimized by "holier than thou" people/groups (including "conversion therapy", which is/was used to "turn" gay men/boys "straight" [never works] and parents/guardians kicking out kids for being on the LGBT+ spectrum, sometimes in the dead of winter!)

Another thing: several classic Milton Berle/Bugs Bunny/Flip Wilson/etc. skits involved "drag". Heck, "Uncle Miltie" appeared in a music video as two of his characters, one his "drag" character, and some of us might remember Flip Wilson's "Geraldine Jones" character ("The devil made me buy this dress")!

Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine
 
we all have seen the the headlines and now it feels more of a war ground of free speech it seems that the federal government has ignored this issue
there are some things that make sense ie banning drag shows from public places where children are present.
but this surfaces a new question should human rights be dragged into politics
no they should not be
Should human rights be dragged into politics? Have you read the constitution and ammendments?

Banning drag shows? Lol, what you resist persists... drag as Phyllis indicates has been around longer than any of us here.

But Drag, cross dressing, Trans, homosexuality are all different things...

I am 66 it is not easy for older generations to keep up with younger generations. Many of those before my time (and many still) could not keep up with equality of the sexes, or civil rights. It is the same today.

We still have racists and misogyissts....we obviously have a long way to go even when folks can accept people of other faiths...even on this site...dinosaurs and their old thoughts die hard.

Me thinks many miss having slaves and "disciplining" their spouse.
 
Should human rights be dragged into politics? Have you read the constitution and ammendments?

Banning drag shows? Lol, what you resist persists... drag as Phyllis indicates has been around longer than any of us here.

But Drag, cross dressing, Trans, homosexuality are all different things...

I am 66 it is not easy for older generations to keep up with younger generations. Many of those before my time (and many still) could not keep up with equality of the sexes, or civil rights. It is the same today.

We still have racists and misogyissts....we obviously have a long way to go even when folks can accept people of other faiths...even on this site...dinosaurs and their old thoughts die hard.

Me thinks many miss having slaves and "disciplining" their spouse.
There's also the "joys" of having psychiatric patients on display for the general public (see: Bedlam) as well as listing homosexuality as a mental illnees...

Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine
 
People trans are been decieved and have been decieved by the devil and the culture is fooling us. We are in danger and the children are been decieve as well.
 
People trans are been decieved and have been decieved by the devil and the culture is fooling us. We are in danger and the children are been decieve as well.
That's not quite right.
I have some clinical background in this. [I have a bit of an insider view]

My take on transgenderism is that it is a medical mystery. And research has not caught up with it nor is it well understood whatsoever.
It is a real, known thing that some people have physiological intersex conditions.

The phenomenon that makes some people have extreme gender dysphoria, that is an extreme negative feeling about their body and their never-ending desire to change their body and live as the opposite sex -- that is something real people experience, and the cause of it is unknown.
The understanding vaguely is that something in people's brains, be it genetic or something to do with fetal development, causes their brain and body to develop differently enough for them to actually feel "like a girl in a boy's body" or "a boy in a girl's body"

The problem as I see it (based on my own clinical experience and training/deficits in the training process) is this:
There is some kind of biological and/or maybe psychological "thing" causing people to identify as the opposite sex.
Shame has kept it under the rug and only slightly pursued and researched over the last century as medical developments made it at least possible to treat people.

Most of mainstream medicine has not been interested. I don't hold this against them entirely, there is a LOT to research in the medical world.

People who care about transgender people have gone from being caring but impartial scientific doctors -- to a bunch of political advocates, led mainly by social workers or completely untrained people who are fomenting something like a liberation movement against society's disapproval and oppression.

I don't hold that against them entirely, what people in all parts of the LGBTQ world have been fighting is for their lives and safety. People harass, beat, and even kill gay, lesbian, transgender people when they can get away with it. Without laws to protect them, they lose jobs and apartments.
Without some understanding and acceptance, they lose families and loved ones.

However, it's like the backlash against all that has made the pendulum swing so far in another direction that there is no caution, no clarity, not even any objectivity at all.

The medical system that used to urge caution and slowness in treatment of the transgender condition, has fallen apart.

Transgender people used to have to have I think more than one psychiatrist write a letter to an endocriniologist before administration of hormones can even begin.

Then it became that one social worker or other master's level counselor (even someone not yet licensed) could write these letters testifying to "medical necessity" of hormone therapy and surgery. And we were given no criteria either. (I hated that)

Now, there's hardly any need for letters, the suffering patient can go anywhere where a doctor is willing to treat them and go by "informed consent"

Transgender people are really suffering. There's no reason to think it is supernatural deception however.

One thing that HAS been emerging is how often transgenderism is co-morbid with other brain based developmental conditions like Autism Spectrum Disorder.

This needs to be understood better. Clinically, medically, psychologically, scientifically.

Any spiritual approach should be about compassion, not about casting out demons.
 
That's not quite right.
I have some clinical background in this. [I have a bit of an insider view]

My take on transgenderism is that it is a medical mystery. And research has not caught up with it nor is it well understood whatsoever.
It is a real, known thing that some people have physiological intersex conditions.

The phenomenon that makes some people have extreme gender dysphoria, that is an extreme negative feeling about their body and their never-ending desire to change their body and live as the opposite sex -- that is something real people experience, and the cause of it is unknown.
The understanding vaguely is that something in people's brains, be it genetic or something to do with fetal development, causes their brain and body to develop differently enough for them to actually feel "like a girl in a boy's body" or "a boy in a girl's body"

The problem as I see it (based on my own clinical experience and training/deficits in the training process) is this:
There is some kind of biological and/or maybe psychological "thing" causing people to identify as the opposite sex.
Shame has kept it under the rug and only slightly pursued and researched over the last century as medical developments made it at least possible to treat people.

Most of mainstream medicine has not been interested. I don't hold this against them entirely, there is a LOT to research in the medical world.

People who care about transgender people have gone from being caring but impartial scientific doctors -- to a bunch of political advocates, led mainly by social workers or completely untrained people who are fomenting something like a liberation movement against society's disapproval and oppression.

I don't hold that against them entirely, what people in all parts of the LGBTQ world have been fighting is for their lives and safety. People harass, beat, and even kill gay, lesbian, transgender people when they can get away with it. Without laws to protect them, they lose jobs and apartments.
Without some understanding and acceptance, they lose families and loved ones.

However, it's like the backlash against all that has made the pendulum swing so far in another direction that there is no caution, no clarity, not even any objectivity at all.

The medical system that used to urge caution and slowness in treatment of the transgender condition, has fallen apart.

Transgender people used to have to have I think more than one psychiatrist write a letter to an endocriniologist before administration of hormones can even begin.

Then it became that one social worker or other master's level counselor (even someone not yet licensed) could write these letters testifying to "medical necessity" of hormone therapy and surgery. And we were given no criteria either. (I hated that)

Now, there's hardly any need for letters, the suffering patient can go anywhere where a doctor is willing to treat them and go by "informed consent"

Transgender people are really suffering. There's no reason to think it is supernatural deception however.

One thing that HAS been emerging is how often transgenderism is co-morbid with other brain based developmental conditions like Autism Spectrum Disorder.

This needs to be understood better. Clinically, medically, psychologically, scientifically.

Any spiritual approach should be about compassion, not about casting out demons.
But I don't think the perceived problem is with genuine gender dysphoria. The problem is with tik-tok pressure on impressionable teens to undergo permanent life changing hormone therapy and surgery, and with self-declared trans women using women's changing rooms, and setting new incredible records in women's sports, and so on -- with the cancel culture that goes along?

60 seconds:
 
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I have actually met some one who has been evicted given death threats and there own mother killed there dog
the thing is drag shows irl are different from the ones in cartoons at least that’s how I perceive it
the cpac of this year specificaly michael Knowles’ statements of “transgenderism must be eradicated“ should not be took lightly there are countless articles of info that he really was being genocidal
 
I met a woman once, doing my degree, and we had a brief conversation, and I wish I'd written it all down.

Somehow we were talking about gender. Her background was in the medical profession, and she spoke of the difficulties of conception, and then briefly on 'trans'-like issues, before trans was a concept abroad in the world.

My takeaway was her view that we have a basic X-Y chromosome thing, but there is a who other substrate – so rather than just X and just Y, therte is something like X1, X2, X3, etc, and Y1, Y2 Y3 ... and that an X1 person and a Y3 will be unable to conceive because of certain incompatibilities ... I wish I knew and remembered more ... it may well have been spurious, as I've never found any other data on it.

My view of gender is the common analogy of an axis, male at one end, female at the other, and all manner of stops between ... so the dominant perceived 'norm' and a broad range of 'diversity' – Sadly, some traditions (and traditionalists) are not very good at managing 'diversity' ...

Anyway, that's me jumping in puddles ...
 
The problem is with tik-tok pressure on impressionable teens to undergo permanent life changing hormone therapy and surgery, and with self-declared trans women using women's changing rooms, and setting new incredible records in women's sports, and so on -- with the cancel culture that goes along?
I know there are folk that will look for those needles in a haystack and then shine a spotlight on them.as if they were ubiqitous...they aren't none of them.

Yet here in the states we can't regulate important things but guns.

Drag shows today have zero difference in the past...just folks dressing up in opposite genders for othe folks entertainment. Go to a show. It is fun and hilarious. Will it set off tingles in your spine? Cause you to squirm in tour seat? Be shocking as some moment in an action film? Maybe! It is entertainment, will it make you reconsider archaic notions...hopefully.

I'm a boomer...and old fart, born when racism, domestic violence and homophobia.was the norm.

I could have chose to stay that way...and heaven knows I have a long way to go in NY understandings... but just like slavery...the old ways are not the new ways.

Find opportunities to meat with, go to dinner with, have a conversation with Trans folk, queer folk, black folk, or catholic folk (tribes which you are not part of) You will meet real people with real intelligence and real feelings just like you. And not just the rumors, bias and sensationalism foisted upon you.

Learn to shake their hand, give then a heartfelt hug. It won't be easy at first because you have been conditioned to believe all the stories said about their tribe from your tribe...it is called control.

Just imagine for a moment or rather you don't have to imagine...think of all the conspiracy theories.and negativity foisted upon Catholicism....and then realize you are doing the same to them.

Love your brother.
 
What my sister, my mom or my daughter or anyone else does in private is no concern of mine.
Point is they like their women's privacy, safe from naked male bodied people walking in
 
Point is they like their women's privacy, safe from naked male bodied people walking in
If you are talking bathrooms ... most if not all my female relatives have walked into the men's room at the ballpark because the lines are shorter and the toilets available as all the guys are at the urinals.

We got ZERO issues with unisex bathrooms or Trans folk using the ones they wish.

Only time I have seen naked people walking into bathrooms is at nudist colonies. At outdoor gatherings they just go squat over the trench latrines we dug like the rest of us.
 
If you are talking bathrooms ... most if not all my female relatives have walked into the men's room at the ballpark because the lines are shorter and the toilets available as all the guys are at the urinals.

We got ZERO issues with unisex bathrooms or Trans folk using the ones they wish.
If they follow bro code (never use the middle urnal) then im fine
 
If they follow bro code (never use the middle urnal) then im fine
I've had problems in the past using the women's loo due to the fact that I've been carded (had to prove that I'm not male even though I have male secondary characteristics without any surgical procedures/alterations.)

Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine
 
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My heart goes out to people who feel they are locked in the wrong body. Imagine the torment they feel in their psyche. I watched an old interview of a hermaphrodite who the family treated like a female but he resonated as a male. It was very sad because this person was often suicidal. This was before trans was even considered a thing.

Edit as I found the video

 
I know there are folk that will look for those needles in a haystack and then shine a spotlight on them.as if they were ubiqitous...they aren't none of them.

Yet here in the states we can't regulate important things but guns.

Drag shows today have zero difference in the past...just folks dressing up in opposite genders for othe folks entertainment. Go to a show. It is fun and hilarious. Will it set off tingles in your spine? Cause you to squirm in tour seat? Be shocking as some moment in an action film? Maybe! It is entertainment, will it make you reconsider archaic notions...hopefully.

I'm a boomer...and old fart, born when racism, domestic violence and homophobia.was the norm.

I could have chose to stay that way...and heaven knows I have a long way to go in NY understandings... but just like slavery...the old ways are not the new ways.

Find opportunities to meat with, go to dinner with, have a conversation with Trans folk, queer folk, black folk, or catholic folk (tribes which you are not part of) You will meet real people with real intelligence and real feelings just like you. And not just the rumors, bias and sensationalism foisted upon you.

Learn to shake their hand, give then a heartfelt hug. It won't be easy at first because you have been conditioned to believe all the stories said about their tribe from your tribe...it is called control.

Just imagine for a moment or rather you don't have to imagine...think of all the conspiracy theories.and negativity foisted upon Catholicism....and then realize you are doing the same to them.

Love your brother.
Fully agree here... the best way to overcome being uncomfortable with a group of people is more exposure to them. There might be a bad egg mixed in here or there(as is inevitable with people everywhere), but in most cases, folks will be pleasantly surprised at how human we all are...




As far as bathroom issues go, years ago when we were teaching the Religious Education for the teens at the UU, I think one of the boys said it best. He said he really didn't have any hard opinions, but, if someone were to come into the urinal looking closer to his mother than his father, he would prefer they use the women's restroom. He'd just be uncomfortable. I appreciated his straight-to-the-point honesty on the issue.

Just go and pee where it makes sense to do so. Though, it seems to me the best idea would just be co-ed bathrooms with fully covering stalls...

Or, we could just eliminate the issue by getting rid of public bathrooms and go back to outhouses(or even just go behind a tree)! :D
 
But I don't think the perceived problem is with genuine gender dysphoria. The problem is with tik-tok pressure on impressionable teens to undergo permanent life changing hormone therapy and surgery, and with self-declared trans women using women's changing rooms, and setting new incredible records in women's sports, and so on -- with the cancel culture that goes along?

60 seconds:
That's why I think the old "gatekeeper" system, much maligned by activists, kept a lid on things
By gatekeeper system I mean the system where qualified mental health professionals had to write letters to get the patients into the hormone and surgical treatment.
What I hated about all of it was when I was in that kind of counseling agency, that I wasn't trained at all. I wasn't given criteria, nada.
(I went into the job thinking I'd be working with gay and lesbian families. It was a little out of my wheelhouse even that, but, given my experiences in the other counseling agency I worked, where I had gay and lesbian clients with family situations out of my depth, I thought that is what I would be learning. NOPE PSYCH!!)
My rant aside though, if there was some real research into some kind of objective measures and rigorous assessments by PhDs and MDs, they could keep quality of care up and put a lid on the social-trender aspect of things.
 
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