Tackling the hard questions and quandaries of Faith

@Tony Bristow-Stagg

To me the Father symbolises in human terms the pure, unchanging and eternal vertical axis of Spirit, while the Son represents Christ crucified between heaven and earth on the horizontal axis of nature limited by time and space, ever changing and bound fo death.

There's so much mystery and wisdom in the incarnation of Jesus the Christ. None of the other prophets including Muhammad (pbuh) made themselves messiah Christ, equal to Jesus.

Now it's every prophet and guru and swami and self-proclaimed new messiah with final and 'absolute truth' for the entire human race..

Sorry, it just doesn't work for me. It minimizes Jesus as just another messenger, yet they all need to take-off on Jesus.

But as you said, we can agree to disagree.
 
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Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
Is it possible, if the conversation is civil, to do this without a person being insulted?

If a valid answer is provided, one that challenges one's own faith, is it possible to just agree to disagree?

I see we can.
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I think it is possible too. I think we can have strong convictions about our own religion and not compromise them, but also engage in interfaith discussion and mutual learning from eachother. I think this is a skill that needs to be learned though. I think where this gets tricky is when it comes to revealed religions. For example, I get why Jewish folks get upset that Christians claim Christ is the foretold messiah, or why Christians get annoyed when Muslims claim Jesus didn't die on the cross and rise again. Or for that matter when Baha'i say Muhammed was not the last Prophet. Because you're essentially saying, "hey, the fundamental and dearly held beliefs and doctrines of your faith are wrong, and actually my religion has the right answer". This is where charity and sensitivity become essential.
 
Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
Is it possible, if the conversation is civil, to do this without a person being insulted?

If a valid answer is provided, one that challenges one's own faith, is it possible to just agree to disagree?

I see we can.

Regards Tony
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That's what this essay: https://www.interfaith.org/articles-2/the-master-of-my-fate/ is all about

Funny how a young child, kindergarten age, can have a spat with another, and 5 minutes later be back playing like best of friends - no guile, no presumption, no regrets, just being kids.

Adults hold grudges, scheme and connive, discriminate (in the literal sense) and otherwise pass judgment. To be sure, a certain degree of discernment is wise, it is a matter of protection. Beyond that, I think we get carried away with presuming our judgments are those of G!d - a presumption that is always dangerous to make.
 
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RJM said:
@Tony Bristow-Stagg

To me the Father symbolises in human terms the pure, unchanging and eternal vertical axis of Spirit, while the Son represents Christ crucified between heaven and earth on the horizontal axis of nature limited by time and space, ever changing and bound fo death.

There's so much mystery and wisdom in the incarnation of Jesus the Christ. None of the other prophets including Muhammad (pbuh) made themselves messiah Christ, equal to Jesus.

Now it's every prophet and guru and swami and self-proclaimed new messiah with final and 'absolute truth' for the entire human race..

Sorry, it just doesn't work for me. It minimizes Jesus as just another messenger, yet they all need to take-off on Jesus.

But as you said, we can agree to disagree.
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That is the great thing about embracing Jesus as the christ RJM.

We are able to share the light from different frames of references. There is no need for conflict.

The discussions we have on faith, if we participate in all sincerity, can only help us think more deeply as to who and what we are.

I feel that it is God that guides us, as God so chooseth.

Regards Tony
 
Modesty said:
I think it is possible too. I think we can have strong convictions about our own religion and not compromise them, but also engage in interfaith discussion and mutual learning from eachother. I think this is a skill that needs to be learned though. I think where this gets tricky is when it comes to revealed religions. For example, I get why Jewish folks get upset that Christians claim Christ is the foretold messiah, or why Christians get annoyed when Muslims claim Jesus didn't die on the cross and rise again. Or for that matter when Baha'i say Muhammed was not the last Prophet. Because you're essentially saying, "hey, the fundamental and dearly held beliefs and doctrines of your faith are wrong, and actually my religion has the right answer". This is where charity and sensitivity become essential.
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Now if we all live by the virtues and teachings of those Faiths, we would have a unity in our diversity. A possibility?

Regards Tony
 
Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
That is the great thing about embracing Jesus as the christ RJM.

We are able to share the light from different frames of references. There is no need for conflict.

The discussions we have on faith, if we participate in all sincerity, can only help us think more deeply as to who and what we are.

I feel that it is God that guides us, as God so chooseth.

Regards Tony
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Extraordinary claims. You need to offer devastating evidence, not laboured scriptural manipulations, and pages and pages of explanatory, imo?
 
juantoo3 said:
That's what this essay: https://www.interfaith.org/articles-2/the-master-of-my-fate/ is all about

Funny how a young child, kindergarten age, can have a spat with another, and 5 minutes later be back playing like best of friends - no guile, no presumption, no regrets, just being kids.

Adults hold grudges, scheme and connive, discriminate (in the literal sense) and otherwise pass judgment. To be sure, a certain degree of discernment is wise, it is a matter of protection. Beyond that, I think we get carried away with presuming our judgments are those of G!d - a presumption that is always dangerous to make.
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Yes we lean towards harsh judgements. We should be like little children, there is even a Bible passage to support that.

Sorry out of time this morning, off to work.

Regards Tony
 
RJM said:
Extraordinary claims. You need to offer devastating evidence, not laboured scriptural manipulations, and pages and pages of explanatory, imo?
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That, I see, is another faith based choice RJM.

Logically those that make that claim are supported by such evidence.

The issue is, as in all Faiths, is first we have to examine the given evidence. That requires a large leap of faith.

Off to work, Regards Tony
 
RJM said:
Mmmmm
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Yes a quandary indeed. A leap of faith.

What do you think supported Jesus amongst the Jews? Why did they not see what a few other people did see?

Hard questions we must ask of our own selves.

Regards Tony
 
Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
Yes a quandary indeed. A leap of faith.

What do you think supported Jesus amongst the Jews? Why did they not see what a few other people did see?

Hard questions we must ask of our own selves.

Regards Tony
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Well according to the gospels they flocked to him as a healer?
 
RJM said:
Well according to the gospels they flocked to him as a healer?
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So the qualities of and supernatural ability of Jesus attracted a multitude. Yet at the beginning there are only a handful that see beyond these attributes right into the Spirit of Jesus that is Christ.

That attraction is superficial, easily broken and the trial of Jesus is the proof of this. How many embraced Jesus at that time!

This is a test of true Prophets, they are the true reformers, even when the enemy sees they have defeated them. Very few stand up to this test, which becomes more obvious as time goes by.

Regards Tony
 
Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
So the qualities of and supernatural ability of Jesus attracted a multitude. Yet at the beginning there are only a handful that see beyond these attributes right into the Spirit of Jesus that is Christ.

That attraction is superficial, easily broken and the trial of Jesus is the proof of this. How many embraced Jesus at that time!

This is a test of true Prophets, they are the true reformers, even when the enemy sees they have defeated them. Very few stand up to this test, which becomes more obvious as time goes by.

Regards Tony
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Do you regard all the Bible and Quran prophets as equal?
 
Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
I personally accept those named by the Messengers, who history has also shown were great teachers.

I see Paul was a disciple, a follower of Jesus Christ.
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In the Absolute Truth thread you list: Muhammad, Abraham, Noah, Moses, Adam, Zoroaster, Krishna, Buddha -- along with Jesus and Baha'u'llah. Probably the Bab too? Is this your full list of anointed messengers?
Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
test of true Prophets, they are the true reformers, even when the enemy sees they have defeated them. Very few stand up to this test, which becomes more obvious as time goes by.
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Paul would seem pass this test?
 
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