Pelagius

[rocala]

I only recently came across Pelagius on another forum. The mention of his name instantly put the few who responded into opposing camps. I read the Wiki and viewed this video

He seems to be a very interesting character. Has anybody else got an opinion of him?

 

[TheLightWithin]

I only recently came across Pelagius on another forum. The mention of his name instantly put the few who responded into opposing camps. I read the Wiki and viewed this video

He seems to be a very interesting character. Has anybody else got an opinion of him?

I've run across the name Pelagius and the concept of Pelagianism (so-called "heresy" of "Pelagianism") quite bit over the last 20ish years that I have been doing the deep dive into religious doctrine and theology.

The understanding of Pelagianism in a nutshell seems to be that The Fall didn't make human nature impossibly corrupt, but that human free will played a role in salvation. This gets perceived as a problem by theologians because it doesn't share the viewpoint that humanity is hopeless and helpless "totally depraved" and apparently this leads to not seeing people as completely dependent on God's grace. Or that it makes it seem as if humans were free to choose between good and evil. Or it makes it look like human action could have something to do with salvation. Orthodox theologians did not endorse that idea, or any idea that denies "total depravity" - and Pelagianism is seen as denying total depravity.

If I understand correctly.

At the very least, Pelagius is seen as an intellectual rival to Augustine.

However the orthodox view, that CLAIMS it rejects Pelagian ideas outright, is hard to square with ideas that many modern Christians uphold or at least seem to uphold- about people having free will and personal responsibility. It seems as if the Pelagian view would be more in line with that.

Now, some say Arminianism is a form of Pelagianism. Arminianism is a branch of Protestantism that is sort of a family of denominations, mostly various Methodist, Holiness, or Pentecostal denominations, occasionally a Baptist or Anabaptist denomination falls in there. But many in the Arminian camp have a whole different view of things.

How Is Arminianism Different From Pelagianism? - Society of Evangelical Arminians

Introduction When asked the difference between Arminianism and Pelagainism, I always have trouble knowing exactly where to start. It is a bit like being asked about the difference between Republicanism and Monarchy: the simple answer being "Everything!"1 However, for some reason, we Arminians...

evangelicalarminians.org

 

[Thomas]

He seems to be a very interesting character. Has anybody else got an opinion of him?

I was taught roughly the same thing ... I always saw 'Pelagius v Augustine' as a kind of parallel to the jiriki ('one's own strength') v tariki ('other power') schools of Buddhism.

The video presents quite a critique of Augustine, and it's one I'm disposed to accept. It seems to me (I am not great Augustinian) that he started out as a optimistic type, who ended up a pessimist, or perhaps from glass half full to glass half empty ... could it be that he ended up as a somewhat curmudgeonly old man?

If I were offering an apologia for a certain dour outlook to his philosophy, two things may have played their part:
The first was that Augustine was, apparently against his will, ordained a priest of city of Hippo (a port-city, Annaba/Bône in Algeria). Five years later he succeeded as its bishop. This required the thinker take on pastoral, political, administrative and juridical duties – his responsibility for and experience of ordinary Christian congregations may have contributed to modify his views on grace and sin.

Secondly, the world was falling apart – he lived in a time when Christianity arose from an 'outsider' religion to the religion of state, but at the same time he witnessed the decline of the Roman Empire, the sacking of Rome, and eventually the sacking of his own Hippo by Vandals, dying that year.

Thanks for the reference.

 

[rocala]

Thank you @Thomas. Becoming a "curmudgeonly old man" is a likely contender. He certainly would not be the first. As the latter half of your post makes clear, context is very important.

I completely missed the similarity to Buddhist other power, a very good point. Thanks.