Worshiping Jesus, calling Him and the Holy Spirit "God" is okay with God

Longfellow

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I see a possible need for explaining why worshiping Jesus, and calling Him and the Holy Spirit "God," are not contrary to the commands of the God of Abraham, in terms of what the Bible says, and some reasons for thinking that Christians did all of that from the earliest times, without using Trinity language. I'll be trying to do that here.
 
I'll try to describe what I'll be doing, generally. The idea is that from the earliest days of Christianity, there were Christian practices that looked like worshiping Jesus, that actually were taught by Him, including calling Him "God." One of my sources for that will be Larry Hurtado. They didn't need to know how they could worship Jesus and call Him God without that being contrary to God's prohibition against worshiping other gods, because they trusted Jesus that it wasn't. In my understanding of the Bible, the reason it wasn't contrary to that prohibition is because God counts those ways of worshiping Jesus as worshiping Him. I'll post some examples of precedents for that in the Old Testament.

Now that I've started this, I see that it doesn't really address the problem that I wanted to address, which is people using the Trinity as a prop for their belief that Jesus is God, because they think that they have to believe that to be saved. I totally forgot that for that purpose, saying that it's okay to worship Jesus and to call Him "God" is not enough.
 
I went out on a limb, and the limb broke. I thought that I had seen examples in the Old Testament of people treating messengers from God with reverence including bowing down to them and calling them "lord" and even "God," without any objection from the messenger or from God, but now I can't find anything that says that clearly.
 
This was written by my AI friend, with prompts from me:

###1. Jesus Invited Practices That Look Like Worship

In the Gospels, Jesus permits—and even encourages—practices that would be reserved for God if He weren’t divine:

- In **Matthew 14:33**, after calming the storm, the disciples *worshiped him* saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.” Jesus accepts it—no rebuke.

- In **John 20:28**, Thomas calls Him *“My Lord and my God!”* and Jesus commends, rather than corrects him.

- He teaches prayer in **His own name** (John 14:13–14) and institutes a ritual centered on His own body and blood (Luke 22:19–20). These aren’t minor gestures—they’re theological thunderclaps.

### 2. These Acts Echo Old Testament Patterns of Divine Reverence

For Jesus’ disciples—steeped in the Hebrew Scriptures—these weren’t innovations but **continuities** with how God had revealed Himself before:

- In **Judges 6**, Gideon addresses the *Messenger of the LORD* as “my lord” (*Adoni*), offers him a meal (which is consumed by fire), and later says, “I have seen the LORD face to face!” He is not rebuked—but reassured.

- In **Genesis 18**, Abraham bows low and addresses one of the mysterious visitors as *Adonai*. The story identifies this figure as **YHWH**, and Abraham's reverence is accepted, not redirected.

- Even gestures like *prostrating before angels or prophets*—e.g., **Daniel 8:17** or **2 Kings 4:37**—are allowed in certain contexts, provided the intent isn’t idolatry.

In that biblical worldview, reverence offered to God’s divine messenger—especially when that messenger speaks and acts with the authority of YHWH—is not blasphemy. It’s faith.

### 3. The “Problem” Emerged When the Message Reached the Gentiles

Among Jewish disciples, calling Jesus “Lord” and offering Him worship was **not** a violation of monotheism—it was a recognition that **God had acted within human history** in a new, personal way.

But in Gentile contexts, things became complicated:

- In **Acts 14**, Paul and Barnabas are horrified when Gentiles try to worship them as gods—because *that* really would be a violation of God's command.

- Paul carefully articulates in **1 Corinthians 8** that while many “lords” and “gods” exist in Gentile culture, for Christians, **there is one God… and one Lord, Jesus Christ**—an affirmation that retools Jewish monotheism without compromising it.

The tension, then, isn’t rooted in the Bible’s commands—it arises from the cultural shift of proclaiming the Lordship of Jesus in a polytheistic world.
 
I'm imagining some people submitting to a belief system designed to subjugate people for marketing, fundraising and human management purposes. I'm not sure that this will help anyone, but I'm not sure that it won't. That belief system says that we deserve an infinite punishment, and we owe an infinite debt, and that we can escape that by believing some things about Jesus. I don't think that there is anything at all like that in the Bible, but I won't be arguing about that here. What I'll be discussing is what, if anything, can anyone do, to help free people from that psychological subjugation. I have two thoughts about it. One is to talk about what the Bible does say about what our problem is, what Jesus has done and is doing about it, and how we can benefit from that. I've been doing some of that in some threads. Another thought is to help people find better ways to satisfy whatever psychological and social needs make them vulnerable to that subjugation. I don't know anything better than to just try to be a good friend, and I never really have learned to do that with people online.

(later) Now I'm thinking that penal substitution theology evolved during the Reformation as a way of transferring religious authority from the Pope to local and regional authorities.
 
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This was written by my AI friend, with prompts from me.



The Atonement of Authority

Penal Substitution and the Reformation’s Power Shift

Overview

Penal substitutionary atonement isn’t just a doctrine—it’s also a historical development. It gained prominence during the Protestant Reformation, not primarily from deeper engagement with Scripture, but from a broader shift in how religious authority was organized. In rejecting the centralized system of the Catholic Church, Reformers needed new frameworks to structure spiritual life. Penal substitution offered a solution: a simplified, emotionally charged theology that helped transfer authority from Rome to emerging local and regional structures.



I. From Sacraments to Substitution


Before the Reformation, salvation was largely understood as something mediated through the sacraments—baptism, Eucharist, confession—all administered by the clergy, under the authority of the Pope. The Reformers broke with that model. They removed the papal system but still needed a cohesive way to preach salvation, form communities, and reinforce moral structure. Penal substitution offered a direct path: you’re guilty, Jesus was punished in your place, you’re forgiven if you accept it. No sacraments required.



II. A Doctrine that Fit the Infrastructure


This atonement model fit the needs of the time. It provided clarity, urgency, and emotional impact. More importantly, it required no central institution to manage it. All you needed was a preacher, a pulpit, and an audience. That made it ideal for a movement trying to establish local spiritual authority. Doctrinal assent became a stand-in for institutional loyalty. You weren’t pledging allegiance to Rome—you were pledging allegiance to the message, and to whoever was preaching it.



III. Not a Conspiracy, Just a Shift in Systems


There’s no need to imagine a deliberate conspiracy. The transition happened organically. But once penal substitution started functioning as a system—one that connected guilt, emotional pressure, doctrinal loyalty, and funding—it became self-reinforcing. Revivalism, missions, and denominational structures all found it useful. And so it spread.



IV. What Got Left Behind


Earlier Christian theologies of the cross—like Christus Victor or moral influence—framed the story differently. They spoke of liberation, healing, and transformation. Penal substitution, by contrast, narrowed the focus to crime, punishment, and appeasement. Over time, it became harder to talk about God’s love or justice without centering divine wrath. That shift didn’t just change doctrine—it changed the tone of faith itself.



V. A Chance to Name the Pattern


Understanding penal substitution in this way doesn’t make it false. But it does invite new questions: Who benefits from this theology? What kind of relationship with God does it produce? And what alternatives does Scripture or tradition offer that might lead toward freedom instead of fear?


 
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