Researching early Christian movements

[Thomas]

I remember that Pythagorus also forbid eating beans ...

Just goes to show that someone who figured out some pretty spectacuilar mathematics, also had some pretty wild beliefs – that beans look like a foetus, therefore ...

 

[Thomas]

""For some of them say that Christ is also Adam ... But others among them say that he is from above and that he was created before all … that he comes into the world whenever he wishes, as he also came in Adam and appeared to the patriachs putting on a body..." (Eiphanius, Panarion (Against Heresies), 30.3.16)

This is intriguing. It also sounds familiar.

Well, the idea is not uncommon.

In the Clementines (after a very quick glance), the 'true prophet' clearly in reference to Jesus, but the who and what and how of Jesus changes.

The texts, as we have them, have been worked and reworked from various theological positions, and there are inevitable inconsistencies.

"Understand, therefore, that the way is this course of our life; the travellers are those who do good works; the gate is the true Prophet, of whom we speak; the city is the kingdom in which dwells the Almighty Father, whom only those can see who are of pure heart (cf Matthew 5:8 "Blessed are the clean of heart: for they shall see God"). Let us not then think the labour of this journey hard, because at the end of it there shall be rest
For the true Prophet Himself also from the beginning of the world, through the course of time, hastens to rest. For He is present with us at all times; and if at any time it is necessary, He appears and corrects us, that He may bring to eternal life those who obey Him." (R 2.22)

For He is within the mind of every one of us, but in those who have no desire of the knowledge of God and His righteousness, He is inoperative; but He works in those who seek after that which is profitable to their souls, and kindles in them the light of knowledge. Wherefore seek Him first of all; and if you do not find Him, expect not that you shall learn anything from any other. But He is soon found by those who diligently seek Him through love of the truth, and whose souls are not taken possession of by wickedness. For He is present with those who desire Him in the innocency of their spirits, who bear patiently, and draw sighs from the bottom of their hearts through love of the truth; but He deserts malevolent minds,831 because as a prophet He knows the thoughts of every one. And therefore let no one think that he can find Him by his own wisdom, unless, as we have said, he empty his mind of all wickedness, and conceive a pure and faithful desire to know Him. For when any one has so prepared himself, He Himself as a prophet, seeing a mind prepared for Him, of His own accord offers Himself to his knowledge. (R. 8.59)

As regards citations about Christ through the ages, these from the Homilies:
"Chapter XX: Christ the Only Prophet Has Appeared in Different Ages.
But give heed to my first discourse of the truth. If any one do not allow the man fashioned by the hands of God to have had the Holy Spirit of Christ, how is he not guilty of the greatest impiety in allowing another born of an impure stock to have it? But he would act most piously, if he should not allow to another to have it, but should say that he alone has it, who has changed his forms and his names from the beginning of the world, and so reappeared again and again in the world, until coming upon his own times, and being anointed with mercy for the works of God, he shall enjoy rest for ever. His honour it is to bear rule and lordship over all things, in air, earth, and waters. But in addition to these, himself having made man, he had breath, the indescribable garment of the soul, that he might be able to be immortal." (H 3.20)

"for He being the Son from the beginning, was alone appointed to give the revelation to those to whom He wishes to give it. And thus the first man (protoplast) Adam must have heard of Him; and Enoch, who pleased God, must have known Him; and Noah, the righteous one, must have become acquainted with Him; and Abraam His friend must have understood Him; and Isaac must have perceived Him; and Jacob, who wrestled with Him, must have believed in Him; and the revelation must have been given to all among the people who were worthy." (Homily 18.13)

I cite the texts (out of order) for contrast. It's generally taken that the True Prophet appears in various incarnations throughout history, and as such the Seven Pillars of Israel – Adam, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Moses – are seven such incarnations. But the above H18.13 doesn't say that, it says those persons heard him, known him, and so on, but were not incarnations of him.

It might be that this idea is not so far out of line with the ideas of the One True God who remains utterly transcendent and removed from the affairs of the world, in seen in the world through theophanies (later Greek theology 'energies', as distinct from the invisible and unknowable 'essence').

Apart from the text cited above, I haven't found anything in the Clementines that refers necessarily to cyclic incarnations, although I'm still looking, and assume it's there, just haven't seen it.

In the case of Mani, same again. I've got a copy of the Cologne Codex, and there Mani speaks of his Syzygos, his angelic double, or counterpart, that comes to him as an epiphany and reminds him of his true heavenly origin and vocation. This speaks of a divine being who manifests Himself in and through the Prophets, and latterly enters into a hypostatic union with humanity in Jesus.

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The portrayal of Adam, more detailed in the Homilies, does project him as something of a Christic manifestation, as one who was human, but without sin, and indeed did not sin – her we take a significant departure from the traditional Genesis story to a Gnostic one – that the fall was through Eve, and entirely her fault. This Adam-Eve opposition sets up a fundamental duality, the Gnostic syzygies, that repeat down through history. Those who champion the Light follow the way of Adam, those who champion darkness, even though they be male, follow the way of Eve.

In the Clementines, Simon the Magician opposes Peter, and we're told that Simon was a disciple of John the Baptist, and whereas Jesus had twelve disciples, John had thirty (for the lunar month). Helen was one such, but she followed the way of Eve, and she led Simon astray.

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I don't know if @Ahanu can shed any more light on this?

 

[Ahanu]

I have to admit, this is a somewhat startling statement.

I find your statement below startling as well. You continue to insist here and elsewhere that giant beings are fantastic stories.

From this we can assume that by now, Ebionism covered a range of beliefs, some telling fantastic stories about Christ:


"After some time, when his (Ebion’s) followers had joined Elxai, they retained from Ebion circumcision and the Sabbath and the customs, but from Elxai the fantasy, so as to suppose that Christ is some man-like figure, invisible to men, ninety miles long, that is twenty-four schoeni, the breadth is six schoeni, twentyfour miles, and the thickness is of some other dimension. Opposite to him stands also the Holy Spirit, invisible, in the form of a female, and having the same size" (Pan 30.17.5-6).

I guess a Christian from the Greek tradition would find the giant being that is miles high strange, weird, or just a tall tale. Aramaic-speaking Christians did not think in Greek and were not expressing themselves like Greek philosophers, so, therefore, they must be telling tall tales when they express divinity in ways that seem foreign to our ways of thinking. However, we are discussing the heart of Aramaic tradition. It contains an ancient form of Jewish mysticism. In this tradition, the Primal Man is the blueprint of the universe. He spans from earth to heaven. It is simply an expression of praise of his cosmic magnitude and authority.

I have to admit, this is a somewhat startling statement.

Luttikhuizen questions the connections which Epiphanius finds between the Book of Elchasai and the various Jewish and Judeo-Christian sects.

Regarding the Ebionites, Epiphanius says that originally they were adoptionists, believing Christ was the natural son of his father, Joseph. But at some point they came under the sway of the Elchasai, and completely changed their theology:

"For some of them say that Christ is also Adam ... But others among them say that he is from above and that he was created before all … that he comes into the world whenever he wishes, as he also came in Adam and appeared to the patriachs putting on a body..." (Pan 30.3.1-6)

Epiphanius just couldn’t grasp the logic of Aramaic speakers. He created a false dichotomy from lack of understanding. He assumes that if you believe Jesus is the natural son of Joseph, you cannot also believe he is the Pre-existent One. Jesus had to be a man who proved himself perfectly righteous. This made him the fit vessel for the Eternal Spirit that clothed itself in him at his baptism. Epiphanius says: “For some of them say that Christ is also Adam ... But others among them say that he is from above and that he was created before all.” Both can be true. Christ is both Adam and the Pre-existent One.

Epiphanius did not realize the True Prophet doctrine was based on early Jewish thought (Deuteronomy 18.15) that predates Elchasai. "The Lord your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from among your own brothers. You must listen to him.” Elchasai inherited this doctrine from earlier Aramaic strands of Christianity. He did not invent it out of thin air.

 

[Thomas]

You continue to insist here and elsewhere that giant beings are fantastic stories.

To be fair, I don't think I insist on it. And 'giants' come in all shapes and sizes, from Genesis 6, the Books of Enoch and elsewhere, so the various occurrences represent different narrative strands, separated by centuries, so have to be taken on their own merit.

However, we are discussing the heart of Aramaic tradition. It contains an ancient form of Jewish mysticism. In this tradition, the Primal Man is the blueprint of the universe. He spans from earth to heaven. It is simply an expression of praise of his cosmic magnitude and authority.

And not just Aramaic. Second Temple Judaism, Gnosticism, apocalyptic mysticism and Greek speculation was feeding into the mix. I think the 'Primal Man' idea was quite late?

Epiphanius just couldn’t grasp the logic of Aramaic speakers. He created a false dichotomy from lack of understanding.

Epiphanius was nock-named Pentaglossos ('Five-tongued') by Jerome because of his fluency in language, Aramaic, Egyptian, Greek, Hebrew and Latin. All the Fathers were, however, 'defending the faith' as they understood it, and their treatment of heterodox views was always somewhat prejudicial if not outright pejorative.

Epiphanius did not realize the True Prophet doctrine was based on early Jewish thought (Deuteronomy 18.15) that predates Elchasai.

He did not invent it, for sure, but Epiphanius seems quite cognisant of the Hebrew Scriptures? And Deuteronomy 18:15 doesn't mention 'True Prophet' in that sense, simply 'a prophet' unqualified (other than "from the midst of thee, of thy brethren"). The exhortation to listen to prophets, and avoid false prophets, is there, but that begs the question of what prophet would claim to be other than true?

 

[Ahanu]

To be fair, I don't think I insist on it. And 'giants' come in all shapes and sizes, from Genesis 6, the Books of Enoch and elsewhere, so the various occurrences represent different narrative strands, separated by centuries, so have to be taken on their own merit.

Mani was definitely familiar with the Book of Enoch and a version of the Enochic Book of Giants, which was found in fragments in Qumran. Some scholars suggest this tradition was handed to Mani from the Elchasaite community, which was the bridge that brought such Jewish texts like the Book of Giants to Mani from Qumran. Looks like a single, continuous tradition to me, not "different narrative strands."

Here's a a possible Jewish-Christian interpretation of Christ's height.

". . . suppose that Christ is some man-like figure, invisible to men, ninety miles long, that is twenty-four schoeni . . ."

This is likely one way of saying that Jesus, who is 24 measures high, is the embodiment of the 24 Books of the Law and Prophets.

Epiphanius was nock-named Pentaglossos ('Five-tongued') by Jerome because of his fluency in language, Aramaic, Egyptian, Greek, Hebrew and Latin. All the Fathers were, however, 'defending the faith' as they understood it, and their treatment of heterodox views was always somewhat prejudicial if not outright pejorative.

I never said he couldn't grasp the words. But he still spoke and wrote like a Greek philosopher and primarily saw the world through Greek logic despite speaking five languages.

And not just Aramaic. Second Temple Judaism, Gnosticism, apocalyptic mysticism and Greek speculation was feeding into the mix. I think the 'Primal Man' idea was quite late?

I am not sure.

He did not invent it, for sure, but Epiphanius seems quite cognisant of the Hebrew Scriptures? And Deuteronomy 18:15 doesn't mention 'True Prophet' in that sense, simply 'a prophet' unqualified (other than "from the midst of thee, of thy brethren"). The exhortation to listen to prophets, and avoid false prophets, is there, but that begs the question of what prophet would claim to be other than true?

If the True Prophet just meant someone who tells the truth, Peter would be calling himself a liar by denying the title as he does in the Homilies. When the text says God will raise up a prophet like me, readers in first century Judaism seemed to anticipate the prophet will be the Moses-spirit returning. The True Prophet was the only one who had seen God face-to-face.

John 1.19–21 shows that first century Jewish authorities held a specific and distinct office for the Prophet (ho prophētēs) that was separate from both the Messiah and Elijah. They didn't ask John the Baptist, "Are you a prophet?" Instead, they used the definite article (ho). They were looking for the Prophet-like-Moses, not just anybody with prophetic gifts like Elijah. There were many prophets throughout Jewish history, but none were considered "like Moses" (Deut 34.10): "Since then, no prophet has risen in Israel like Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face . . ."

 

[Ahanu]

"After some time, when his (Ebion’s) followers had joined Elxai, they retained from Ebion circumcision and the Sabbath and the customs, but from Elxai the fantasy, so as to suppose that Christ is some man-like figure, invisible to men, ninety miles long, that is twenty-four schoeni, the breadth is six schoeni, twenty four miles, and the thickness is of some other dimension. Opposite to him stands also the Holy Spirit, invisible, in the form of a female, and having the same size" (Pan 30.17.5-6).

Epiphanius seems to accurately report the details of the measurements, but he is completely missing the mystical symbolism here, and so he just doesn't get it. What he doesn't understand he ends up mocking as mere fantasy.

 

[Thomas]

Epiphanius seems to accurately report the details of the measurements, but he is completely missing the mystical symbolism here, and so he just doesn't get it. What he doesn't understand he ends up mocking as mere fantasy.

Maybe. Maybe he wasn't so dumb, and was simply trying to make the others look stupid ... ? I dunno.