Man? G!d's perfect/best creation?

The more I look at man kind....homo sapiens.... idk how many species of man there have been...they say at least 8 walked the planet at the same time for a while...3 of those species are still present in our dna.

But seems opposing thumbs are our biggest advantage. Once we let octopus learn computers we will have some interesting challenges ... i mean if ants or bees or mushrooms were able to communicate with our electronics we would see what civilization could be!

But man? More faults than benefits for this planet.
 
I think every other species on the planet would agree. With the possible exception of cats.
Absolutely perfect and plausible response....

But with what we know....is that now an obvious biblical error...i mean if man is his premier acheivement....surely it aint this man on this planet....the bible must be referring to something else?
 
To be fair, nowhere does the Bible say this is the perfect or the best ...
 
Granted I have an American Protestant upbringing ...
I think you nailed it there ... the message owes more to ideology than theology.

The bible says each day of creation is "good", and that the whole of creation is "very good", but not that any individual part of it is better, or best, or ultimate ... so that's a case of ideological transference, I think.

From what I've read, the Orthodox Church in America is suffering a problematic phenomena (echoed in the Catholic Church), the emergence of the 'Orthobros' (I'm assuming a correspondence with 'Techbros') – "typically young male converts to Eastern Orthodox Christianity. Heavily rooted in online communities like Reddit and Twitter, the subculture blends zealous traditionalism with internet debate culture and manosphere aesthetics." (The Tablet, 7 September 2023)

It seems the 'traditional' denominations are attracting young men looking for "a more masculine" church – and that 'masculinity' is according to manosphere aesthetics of the SocMed channels. They're notable for their misogynistic 'trad-wife' sensibilities (shades of Ira Levin's "The Stepford Wives" and Margaret Atwood's "The Handmaid's Tale").

As ever, David Bentley Hart has a view on this – it's at 6.48 in his conversation with Rainn Wilson He is caustic as regarding American Evangelicals converting to Orthodoxy and bringing their narrow-minded values with them. At its worst, he opines, Americanism corrupts everything it touches.
 
To be fair, nowhere does the Bible say this is the perfect or the best ...
Philosophically, can there be a greatest good way to create the universe and life?

Could God create anything greater than children in his own image, likeness and nature?
Could God love all his children as he loves himself?

Could the creation of the universe and life hang and depend on the greatest commandments? Could there be any other single greater purpose for God to create the universe and life?
 
Oh, I agree with you!

I think human potential for goodness is Infinite, and in a myriad small and unnoticed ways we participate in the Divine Plenitude.

It's always the noisome ones who attract all the attention, who steal the oxygen from the room.

Humanity cannot begin to comprehend what the Father envisions for His creature, or his creation ...
 
From what I've read, the Orthodox Church in America is suffering a problematic phenomena (echoed in the Catholic Church), the emergence of the 'Orthobros' (I'm assuming a correspondence with 'Techbros') – "typically young male converts to Eastern Orthodox Christianity. Heavily rooted in online communities like Reddit and Twitter, the subculture blends zealous traditionalism with internet debate culture and manosphere aesthetics." (The Tablet, 7 September 2023)
People who are only there for their own selfish reasons and politically minded too
It seems the 'traditional' denominations are attracting young men looking for "a more masculine" church – and that 'masculinity' is according to manosphere aesthetics of the SocMed channels. They're notable for their misogynistic 'trad-wife' sensibilities (shades of Ira Levin's "The Stepford Wives" and Margaret Atwood's "The Handmaid's Tale").
Where do these males learn their ideas?
As ever, David Bentley Hart has a view on this – it's at 6.48 in his conversation with Rainn Wilson He is caustic as regarding American Evangelicals converting to Orthodoxy and bringing their narrow-minded values with them. At its worst, he opines, Americanism corrupts everything it touches.
Depending on what's meant by Americanism.
That word can mean a few different things, including just being culturally and patriotically American I THINK they may be using a term about a "heresy" they call Americanism where they sort of smash the idea of being 'American' up with the idea of modern sensibilities, naturalistic thinking, pluralism, diversity, etc... none of which are actually wrong or bad in any way, and all of which are vociferously rejected by these weird "bros" in the so called "bro culture" -
Ooooor.... those "ortho-bros" who seem to think they can piggy back on old school authoritarian culture by converting old school churches ("Oh Cool! Eastern Orthodoxy! where women cover their heads!") while also thinking they can co-opt it for their own ends.
IF "Americanism" actually means something like modernism or egalitarianism or pluralism, this is not what the "bro-bros" want, they are the furthest thing from egalitarian or pluralistic or democratic. Also, being modern, egalitarian, pluralistic, and democratic are not the corruption.
 
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Where do these males learn their ideas?
I think the potential to think that way is there, and its character is shaped by cultural context.

Depending on what's meant by Americanism.
I think some context is offered in the talk I highlighted.

Hart is notoriously hard on 'Christendom' (a failed project) and particularly on Christianity in America, but then he is American, and as one reviewer noted, if it's hyperbole, it's because of its urgency.

Hart has said in a long interview in 2021:
"Christianity never succeeded in America. Most Americans think of themselves as Christians. But the only religion in America that ever flourished was America… Our religion is a kind of Orphic post-Christian mystery religion based on wealth, power and one’s personal relationship with a kind of gnostic Jesus."

Earlier, in 2020:
"Contrary to conventional wisdom, Christianity has never really taken deep root in America or had any success in forming American consciousness; in its place, we have invented a kind of Orphic mystery religion of personal liberation, fecundated and sustained by a cult of Mammon."
 
In the 2nd century, we have records of what is now called the Antonine plague (165AD-180AD). There are questions: what exactly was it? Where did it originate? What is not questioned was its impact. Carried through the empire by the military, it decimated the Roman world. Some claim up to a third of the Roman Empire died, but at least 10% perished.

It also led to a significant increase in the Christian population.

People become more religious in times of great need. The rate of temple building increased during this plague. A general increase in religiosity would account for an increase in Christianity. But Christianity grew disproportionately – outstripping other religious traditions.

One reason is that in the cities, Christians died from plague at a lower rate than the general population.

A miracle? Who's to say – but the more likely reason is that Christians stayed in the city, to take care of the sick and the needy – family, friends, neighbours. This level of care – just basic nursing – led to their surviving at a higher rate than others, whose support networks collapsed when the populations fled the cities.

So the population of a city decreased overall, and the percentage that was Christian increased.

This led to the belief that the Christian God was saving Christians, so people converted in large numbers.

A century later, another plague. This the Plague of Cyprian (then Bishop of Carthage).

Around 5,000 people were dying in Rome each day. Cyprian's sermons challenged his congregations to risk themselves and care for others, to remember Christ in whose image they are called to be.

Non-Christian sources corroborate that, again, Christians stayed, in significant numbers whilst others fled. Again, they offered basic nursing care, and again those in their care survived at a higher rate. Importantly, Christians nursed everyone, not just those in their own community.

Emperor Julian (Julian the Apostate), the radically anti-Christian, wrote: "the impious Galileans in addition to their own, support ours, it is shameful that our poor should be wanting our aid." Thus Christian and radically anti-Christian sources agree on how Christian responded to the plague, that they stayed and cared for others, and not just for other Christians.

This was a Christianity practiced, not a Christianity preached. By their actions, Christians became a beacon for others, and those people wanted to know why they stayed. The risks, the care, the compassion, was all there in their sacred scriptures.

In the 1st century, Christianity was a Jewish movement. In the 2nd, there was their example during the Antonine Plague. In the 3rd, the Plague of Cyprian. By the 4th, Christianity was the dominant religion in the Western world.

Was all this entirely attributable to the fact that Christians cared for each other, and for their neighbour? No, probably not. But I do think that perhaps those examples stood as a better testament to the power of the gospel, than the sophisticated arguments of theologians over obscure lexical interpretations.

+++

Carlo Urbani was an Italian doctor with a specialism in infectious and tropical diseases.

Urbani started volunteering in Africa. After years working in the epidemic medicine field, he became an external consultant of the World Health Organization. He joined Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF) and moved with his family to Phnom Penh, Cambodia for a year.

As president of the Italian section of MSF, he campaigned against multinational pharmaceutical companies that kept up the high prices of medicines against AIDS, malaria and tuberculosis. He was a member of the delegation that received the Nobel Peace Prize on behalf of MSF. With the prize money, Urbani created a fund to promote an international campaign for access to essential medicines for the world's poorest populations.

In February 2003, while holidaying in Asia, he was called into The French Hospital of Hanoi, Vietnam, to observe a patient that was causing concern. Urbani realised that the patient was suffering from an unidentified but highly contagious disease. He immediately isolated the ward, himself and the staff who had been exposed to strict quarantine measures. He notified the WHO, and on the strength of his reputation got them to act without delay.

He spoke to his wife on the phone. She asked him to come home. He said "Where else would you expect me to be?"

Against some resistance, he persuaded the Vietnamese Health Ministry to isolate patients and screen travelers, a move which slowed the early pace of the epidemic. His patient died, as did some of the staff exposed. But the outbreak was contained.

In March, he flew from Hanoi to a conference in Bangkok, Thailand. He began feeling unwell, and a colleague who met him at the airport called an ambulance. Urbani had contracted SARS while treating infected patients in Hanoi. His Bangkok hospital room became an improvised. He died on the 29th of that month.

His humanity and compassion in the face of suffering and risk stand as a testament to the best in human nature. In my book he's a saint. There are millions like him, some believers, some atheist, some agnostic.

We might not be the best thing God ever came up with, but that's no reason in itself to demean ourselves.
 
This was a Christianity practiced, not a Christianity preached. By their actions, Christians became a beacon for others, and those people wanted to know why they stayed. The risks, the care, the compassion, was all there in their sacred scriptures.
This
and
the Christianity I have seen in modern American (1970s to the present - surely before that too but I didn't notice much of anything until I was at least a few years old)
but anyway, these Christianities part ways
Maybe this is what he meant by "Americanism" - referred to by you in an above post and responded to by me in an above post
But I think it's something a little more prescise than "Americanism"
Somehow it became about identity, then pride, then ego.
My unfortunate observation and experience and interaction was with scores and scores of middle to lower middle class or low income Americans smugly patting selves on the back and puffily declaring themselves Christian (some Protestant, some Catholic, some Evangelical), scorning others, including me or my mom, as being hell bound or simply scorned, some slathering on about the horrors of hell, and then the alternative strand of Christian self-identification was presented long drawn out thunderation -maybe by my grandfather ranting his heterodox declarations or a few others ranting their heterodox views, all usually containing ranting about how the terrifying end of the world was near.
Sure a few self reported Christians did seem to be interested in charity, giving baskets at Christmas and things.
But I didn't ever see anything like the wholesale care without preaching described above. 🫤 😞
How nice it would be though.
 
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