The Nephilim Race

Discussion in 'Ancient History and Mythology' started by Rouge47, Apr 26, 2005.

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Read the thread and then decide: do you believe in the Nephilim Race?

  1. Yes

    54.8%
  2. No

    45.2%
  1. Nogodnomasters

    Nogodnomasters New Member

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    The Nephilim were added to the story of Noah to justify YHWH's destruction of the earth. I would contend they were not in the original text. The word is from the Chaldean word for the constellation of Orion which is Niphla which means "the mighty." In Hebrew lore one of the fallen angels Shemhazai hangs upside down in the constellation of Orion. This would connect the Nephilim to the constellation of Orion. My personal views and reasearch indicates Nimrod was represented by the constellation of Orion also and well as the violated Noah, and Herod of the NT.

    The violated or castrated Noah from the tent scene most likely was the original tale representing Orion. The rest were added due to syncretism.
     
  2. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    It is generally agreed that the flood, occured circa 2342 BC, and that Noah was around 600 years old at the time.

    The first books of the Hebrew scriptures were penned circa 1400 BC, which is about 800 years before the arrival of the Chaldeans. The Hebrews would have had no need nor reason to use a younger nation's language to add to their own in order to describe their views and holy histories and lore (David had already written Psalms. Proverbs were in place. Solomon had been dead for 100 years). In fact the opposite happened. The Assyrians who settled in the Northern kingdom of Israel eventually took on the Torah and the Hebrew God as their own (they are called Samaritans). When the Babylonians invaded Israel and then Judah, the exile began, but Babylon could not keep Judah, which became a puppet state to Egypt. If anything there would be more Egyptian influence in scriptures, than the short lived Chaldeans.

    From my research on ancient astroglies and prophecies, I know of the Chaldean word Niphla. However it is not used to describe mightly men of renown, or Nephilim (which in Hebrew means "those who have fallen").

    In fact the word Niphla is a descriptor for someone else...

    "The picture presents us with "the Light of the world." His left foot is significantly placed upon the head of the enemy. He is girded with a glorious girdle, studded with three brilliant stars; and upon this girdle is hung a sharp sword. Its handle proves that this mighty Prince is come forth in a new character. He is again proved to be "the Lamb that was slain," for the hilt of this sword is in the form of the head and body of a lamb. In his right hand he lifts on high his mighty club; while in his left he holds forth the token of his victory--the head and skin of the "roaring lion." We ask in wonder, "Who is this?" and the names of the stars give us the answer.

    Al Rai, who bruises, who breaks (as in Cepheus); and Thabit (Hebrew), treading on.
    Other (Arabic) names relate to His Person: Al Giauza, the branch; Al Gebor, the mighty; Al Mirzam, the ruler; Al Nagjed, the prince; Niphla (Chaldee), the mighty; Nux (Hebrew), the strong. Some names relate to His coming, as Betelgeuse and Bellatrix, as above; Heka (Chaldee), coming; and Meissa (Hebrew), coming forth.

    Such is the cumulative testimony of Orion's stars, which, day after day, and night after night, show forth this knowledge. That testimony was afterwards written in the Book. The Prince of Glory, who was once wounded for the sins of His redeemed, is about to rise up and shine forth for their deliverance. Their redemption draweth nigh; for--

    "The LORD shall go forth as a mighty man, ​
    He shall stir up jealousy like a man of war;
    He shall cry, yea, roar;
    He shall prevail against His enemies.
    I have [He says] long time holden my peace;
    I have been still, and refrained myself:
    Now will I cry like a travailing woman;
    I will destroy and devour at once."
    Isaiah 42:13, 14


    Niphla describes the coming of the redeemer.

    v/r

    Q
     
  3. Nogodnomasters

    Nogodnomasters New Member

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    My theory claims the original text came EB III and that the Bible was a living document. No one agrees Noah was real and lived 600 years and there was a flood. Astral theology changes from OT to NT in the Bible due to Greek syncretism. The basic ideas of Bullinger (who you quote without credit), whose definitions are questionable, don't apply as he does not deal with anachronisms. What he does is to take the actual Arab names for the stars and translate their meaning to the nearest Hebrew word. This is poor scholarship. The three stars in the belt in the NT are the wise men who follow Sirius (star of the East) across the sky.
     
  4. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    I quoted him (as in put quotes around his words). Enough said. Then no one agrees that Noah was castrated either, thus the founding of the story of the Nephilim in the cave can not be agree upon either...Second of all it is fact that Nephilim is a Hebrew word, not a variation of a Chaldean word as you presume. I'm afraid your theory is as full of holes as mine is. However attacking me does no good. ;)

    You presented a point, and I presented a counter-point.

    v/r

    Q
     
  5. Rouge47

    Rouge47 Follower of Christ

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    I love debates:D! Did I mention im on the debate team in school. Representing points and counter-points is a thing I had to learn how to do. Hebrew or not (I have no opinion on that) there are still many pieces of the puzzle missing.

    God Bless
    Paul
     
  6. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    So do I. It is an acquired taste, but when one spends one's life with sailors, better acquire the taste for it, eh? ;)

    v/r

    Q
     
  7. Nogodnomasters

    Nogodnomasters New Member

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    I apologize if you consider it an attack. That is not my intent. One of yhe Midrash states Noah was castrated. This corresponds to other myths. You have cited no source for your Nephilim assertion. You have yet to poke one hole.
     
  8. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    LOL, don't mess with me. I have given so many points of reference on this forum about Nephilim, I could write a paper. I am truly sorry you do not accept any of them.

    I know to leave you alone, now. Nogodnomaster apologizes to no one.

    Q
     
  9. Rouge47

    Rouge47 Follower of Christ

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    Perhaps we should tone down this aggresiveness before it gets out of hand. Not to be bossy or anything. Lets get back on topic shall we.

    God Bless,
    Paul
     
  10. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    That isn't aggression, it is called heated debate. Two uncomprimising positions, each ignoring the research done by the other, in order to express their particular point. (My mom calls it an argument in futility). :D Smart lady.

    Back to the topic...what do you want to know?

    v/r

    Q
     
  11. Nogodnomasters

    Nogodnomasters New Member

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    I cannot accept your source if your never quote one. I have reread your posts and the only source you use is the Bible to prove the Bible (circular logic). Even those people you quote, you never give them any credit.

    For example you have this gem "According to the OT, the original Nephilim, are dead, never to rise again, not even on judgement day"

    Oh really? Where in the OT does it say that?
     
  12. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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  13. Curios Mike

    Curios Mike New Member

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    Have you guys ever heard of Patrick Heron? He links the nephilim, God and the pyramids in his book. I"m not sure how totaly yet, becuase I havnt bought the book yet, but heard him on coasttocoastam one night. I've also read a little about them in the Apocrypha: New Testament Apocrypha, the missing books of the Bible . Mainly in the book of enoch and I think a little is mention in Revelation of Pual. Talk to yah guys later, when i have more time to read through all the post.:eek:
     
  14. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    Interesting information, but still speculation. He offers no "evidence in furtherence". Does not mean it is not food for thought, just not "Proof".

    I find it ironic that he would not present this information for free. Of course, people must eat, but...(if one want's to learn the "GREAT TRUTH", one must pay for it?).

    Send free copies to the Libraries...people who want copies for their own (like me), will buy them. Most people can't be bothered to wait for library books to become available, so they'll buy them...

    Others can't afford it, so they are denied this "crucial information?"

    Hmmm.

    v/r

    Q
     
  15. kayleyroze

    kayleyroze New Member

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    hello,I'm new here. I like this site, it's great. I have been reading threads here for about a week. I know we should stick to the Bible for the answers, but I was reading the book of Jubilees last week and found alittle about the subject there.This is Jubilees Ch.5 vs. 1-12. Quote:And it came to pass when the children of men began to multiply on the face of the earth and daughters were born unto them, that the angels of God saw them on a certain year of this jubilee, that they were beautiful to look upon; and they took themselves wives of all whom they chose, and they bare unto them sons and they were giants.
    And lawlessness increased on the earth and all flesh corrupted its way, alike men and cattle and beasts and birds and everything that walks on the earth -all of them corrupted their ways and their orders, and they began to devour each other, and lawlessness increased on the earth and every imagination of the thoughts of all men (was) thus evil continually.
    And God looked upon the earth, and behold it was corrupt, and all flesh had corrupted its orders, and all that were upon the earth had wrought all manner of evil before His eyes.
    And He said that He would destroy man and all flesh upon the face of the earth which He had created.
    But Noah found grace before the eyes of the Lord.
    And against the angels whom He had sent upon the earth, He was exceedingly wroth, and He gave commandment to root them out of all their dominion, and He bade us to bind them in the depths of the earth, and behold they are bound in the midst of them, and are (kept) separate.
    And against their sons went forth a command from before His face that they should be smitten with the sword, and be removed from under heaven.
    And He said 'My spirit shall not always abide on man; for they also are flesh and their days shall be one hundred and twenty years'.
    And He sent His sword into their midst that each should slay his neighbour, and they began to slay each other till they all fell by the sword and were destroyed from the earth.
    And their fathers were witnesses (of their destruction), and after this they were bound in the depths of the earth for ever, until the day of the great condemnation, when judgment is executed on all those who have corrupted their ways and their works before the Lord.
    And He destroyed all from their places, and there was not left one of them whom He judged not according to all their wickedness.
    And he made for all his works a new and righteous nature, so that they should not sin in their whole nature for ever, but should be all righteous each in his kind alway.



    Then demonds are talked about here in ch 10 vs 1-14

    [Chapter 10]

    And in the third week of this jubilee the unclean demons began to lead astray the children of the sons of Noah, and to make to err and destroy them.
    And the sons of Noah came to Noah their father, and they told him concerning the demons which were leading astray and blinding and slaying his sons' sons.
    And he prayed before the Lord his God, and said:
    'God of the spirits of all flesh, who hast shown mercy unto me
    And hast saved me and my sons from the waters of the flood,
    And hast not caused me to perish as Thou didst the sons of perdition;

    For Thy grace has been great towards me,
    And great has been Thy mercy to my soul;

    Let Thy grace be lift up upon my sons,
    And let not wicked spirits rule over them
    Lest they should destroy them from the earth.


    But do Thou bless me and my sons, that we may increase and Multiply and replenish the earth.
    And Thou knowest how Thy Watchers, the fathers of these spirits, acted in my day: and as for these spirits which are living, imprison them and hold them fast in the place of condemnation, and let them not bring destruction on the sons of thy servant, my God; for these are malignant, and created in order to destroy.
    And let them not rule over the spirits of the living; for Thou alone canst exercise dominion over them. And let them not have power over the sons of the righteous from henceforth and for evermore.'
    And the Lord our God bade us to bind all.
    And the chief of the spirits, Mastêmâ, came and said: 'Lord, Creator, let some of them remain before me, and let them harken to my voice, and do all that I shall say unto them; for if some of them are not left to me, I shall not be able to execute the power of my will on the sons of men; for these are for corruption and leading astray before my judgment, for great is the wickedness of the sons of men.'
    And He said: Let the tenth part of them remain before him, and let nine parts descend into the place of condemnation.'
    And one of us He commanded that we should teach Noah all their medicines; for He knew that they would not walk in uprightness, nor strive in righteousness.
    And we did according to all His words: all the malignant evil ones we bound in the place of condemnation and a tenth part of them we left that they might be subject before Satan on the earth.
    And we explained to Noah all the medicines of their diseases, together with their seductions, how he might heal them with herbs of the earth.
    And Noah wrote down all things in a book as we instructed him concerning every kind of medicine. Thus the evil spirits were precluded from (hurting) the sons of Noah.
    And he gave all that he had written to Shem, his eldest son; for he loved him exceedingly above all his sons.


    AMORITES » Were giants (Amos 2:9)
    ANAK » Father of three giants (Joshua 15:13,14;21:11)
    ANAKIM » A race of giants (Numbers 13:28-33; Deuteronomy 1:28;2:10;9:2)
    ANTEDILUVIANS » Giants among
    ANTEDILUVIANS » See GIANTS
    ASHTAROTH » The capital city of Bashan » Giants lived at (Joshua 12:4)
    EMIMS » A race of giants (Genesis 14:5; Deuteronomy 2:10,11)
    GATH » Anakim, a race of giants, inhabitants of (Joshua 11:22)
    SABEANS » Giants among (Isaiah 45:14)
    ZAMZUMMIMS » A race of giants (Genesis 14:5; Deuteronomy 2:20,21)

    Giants were very real. and their chracteristics were very evil.

    peace!:)
     
  16. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    Welcome to CR kayleyroze!

    I am familiar with Jubilees and appreciate you bringing the information up. I do not discount certain of the Apocrypha, due to the fact that it used to be part of the Bible, prior to the first reformation. In fact you have given me pause to go find out what the Bible contained prior to said reformation.

    Thank you for your input.;)

    v/r

    Q
     
  17. kayleyroze

    kayleyroze New Member

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    There is a cool website about Genesis giants you might wanna check out. Look at the giant pics and the skull pics. wow!www.stevequayle.com/Giants/index2.html . If the link doesnt work just type Genesis giants in your search.:)
     
  18. Nogodnomasters

    Nogodnomasters New Member

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  19. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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  20. Curios Mike

    Curios Mike New Member

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    Gen 6:2-5
    2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

    3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

    4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

    5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually
    KJV

    Sons of God is refering to fallen angels. Their is also referense of sons of God in Job:

    Job 1:6-7
    6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them.
    NKJV

    Job 2:1-2
    2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
    NKJV

    These are in the King James version... But their is more mentioned about them in the apocripha, but they where excluded from the bible through canonization. LOL Cant remember the process they used for that, but anyways their yah go:) .
     

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