The Nephilim Race

Discussion in 'Ancient History and Mythology' started by Rouge47, Apr 26, 2005.

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Read the thread and then decide: do you believe in the Nephilim Race?

  1. Yes

    54.8%
  2. No

    45.2%
  1. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

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    Kindest Regards, all!

    Just thought I'd chime in for a moment. I have posted info elsewhere concerning the "child of Lapedo, Portugal." It has been a while and the details are a bit fuzzy in my recollection, but the end analysis by several groups that looked into the matter concluded that the child of Lapedo was a Neandertal / Cro Magnon hybrid. Since this is an isolated find, the implications are a little fuzzy, in that while "we" know Neandertal disappeared, we don't really know why or how. I also find it interesting that Lapedo dates to about 5 thousand years after Neandertal is thought to have disappeared. Pretty long time in my book to suddenly appear out of nowhere.

    So, while Neandertal and modern humans may have some distinct genetic differences, Lapedo makes it pretty apparent that the two were sufficiently similar to enable interbreeding. Culturally there must have been some cooperative interaction as well to bring this about.

    My two cents. :)

    Addendum:
    "Erik Trinkaus, an anthropologist at Washington University in St. Louis, says the DNA evidence does not disprove his assertion that the 25,000-year-old skeleton of child unearthed in Portugal is the descendent of a human-Neanderthal hybrid. The new research, he says, just shows interbreeding was not common." -from the website referenced by Tao.
     
  2. Tao_Equus

    Tao_Equus Interfaith Forums

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    Hi Paul James,
    If you dont mind I wont answer why I feel such a turn of events to be scary on this thread but will, after researching a little, tackle it on the politics thread. I will message you to let you know when I do this.


    Juantoo,


    In fairness I feel you should have also quoted the probability that given the evidential genetic differences any interbreeding would have probably produced sterile hybrids. Not a viable breeding population from which we descended. There are none of the signature indicatators of Homo neanderthalensis mtDNA in the mtDNA of modern humans, clear evidence to support the theory we did not successfuly interbreed. That said both species did share a common ancestor as recently as 500k years ago, (aprx 1/12th of the time since we shared a common ancestor with the chimpanzee), and so we were in essence very similair.

    As for the Lapedo child I include this link: http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/96/13/7117

    This provides a very salient argument that the Lapedo child was a stocky modern human devoid of key neanderthal features.


    Regards

    TE
     
  3. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

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    Kindest Regards, Tao Equus!
    True. Of course, in fairness, if you had mentioned the child of Lapedo as a hybrid and / or referenced Trinkhaus' comment in the same reference, I would not have felt the need to do so. Balance.

    The least of my intentions is to seem argumentative. I will succinctly state that this "very salient" argument is biased and incomplete. I noticed immediately that the focus in your reference was predominantly on dentition. Since the skull was destroyed when it was discovered, that leaves a damaged lower mandible and bottom teeth to work from for these researchers you reference. I have compiled a bit larger reference that takes not only this dentition into account, but also looks at the morphology of the remaining skeletal features.

    Since the focus of this particular thread is on the mythology of the Nephilim, and we are discussing Neandertal morphology as compared to modern human morphology, and the two (Nephilim and Neandertal) are not (necessarily) connected, and the Neandertal hybrid subject seems to have garnered enough interest in its own right, I think it only fitting that a new thread be created to that end. I will post my references in that new thread.
     
  4. InChristAlways

    InChristAlways New Member

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    That is interesting, as I never related that to the "possibility" of those perhaps being the ones released in the Christian book of revelation to bring the judgement and wrath on the wicked? Any thoughts on this? Thanks.
    Steve

    2 Peter 2:4 For if God messengers who sinned did not spare, but with chains of thick gloom, having cast [them] down to Tartarus, did deliver [them] to judgment, having been reserved, tartarwsaV <5020> (5660)

    Is there any other translations for this word from the greek?

    5020. tartaroo tar-tar-o'-o from Tartaros (the deepest abyss of Hades); to incarcerate in eternal torment:--cast down to hell.

    Revelation 9:1 And the 5th messager does sound trumet blast, and I perceived a Star out of the heaven having fallen into the land, and was given to him the key of the well/pit of the abyss, 2 and he opens up the well/pit of the abyss, and did ascend smoke out of the well/pit, as smoke of a great furnace, and is darkened the sun and the air, out from the smoke of the well/pit. 3 And out of the smoke came forth locusts into the land, and was given to them authority, having authority as the scorpions of the land,

    Pretty "Spooky" :eek:

    Jude 1:6
    Messengers also, even them who had not kept their own principality, but had forsaken their proper dwelling, unto the judgment of the Great Day in perpetual bonds under thick gloom, hath he reserved.

    Revelation 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs [coming] out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, [which] go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
     
  5. Rouge47

    Rouge47 Follower of Christ

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    What about when the meteor strikes the Earth (or called a falling star in Revelation) and opens the bottomless pit. Out of it will come the smoke locusts. And they will be given power, like the scorpians of the Earth are given power. And they will reign terror and intemidation upon Man. And they will be ordered by God to not kill Man, but to intemidate Man. Would these so called "locusts" be Nephilim? I think the 6th angel is the one who does this. I read this last night, but I forgot the verse and chapter numders.:eek:

    PJ
     
  6. chokmah

    chokmah Noachide

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    I believe that the Nephillim existed; however, I do not believe that they were offspring of an angelic-human union.

    Since I pretty much follow Judaic tradition regarding angels, I don't believe that there are any fallen angels. All angels are emissaries of G-d to do His bidding, and they do not have free will.

    As to what exactly the Nephillim are, I'm not sure and I haven't researched it much.
     
  7. aged hippy

    aged hippy drifting gently

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    Concerning the Flood and the Ark, it's interesting - at least, to myself :) - that there's no mention of an Ark in Enoch, Noah is merely told to "hide" himself.

    The "deluge" itself certainly isn't a flood of waters, the Angels - Michael, Uriel, Raphael, and Gabriel - are ordered to "Destroy all wrong from the face of the earth":
    It seems to me that the Watchers existed, but in a psychic - rather than physical - sense.


    There is no mention of waters flooding the Earth, no mass drowning.
    Also, i don't feel that the Loving God would murder millions of humans.
     
  8. OtownPR

    OtownPR New Member

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    There are many indications to there being an actual flood, just one being the Sumerian King's list where Kingship was lowered before and after a flood.

    This is the whole point!

    Once people realize that contents of the bible trace back to it's origins either Sumer and/or Egypt and see that these same stories involved multiple dieties and these multiple entities did the same things and were susecptible to the same hazards as humans i.e. ate, drank, slept, multiplied between themselves and as has continued through later stories procreated with humans, could die, and kill, hence capable of the same ills as humans.

    So it really comes down to in your mind could "Aliens" exist, could biological beings already evolved into intelligent physical civilization exist somewhere other than Earth?

    If not cool, the messages in most if not all holy books will help people walk a righteous path, noone can ever take that away from people.

    But if yes along with the moral message within the metaphores "a return" with an "antichrist", "false god" is said to come FIRST. Was it a GOD inspired future vision of events or just a warning with an estimated probable reaction of the rejection of a physical entity coming to Earth after thousands of years of first visiting the Earth? Armageddon?

    Again,

    I don't either, so let's not automatically push aside the roots of our holy books.

    Bless.
     
  9. bdw000

    bdw000 New Member

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    Paul James:

    I would suggest reading some Zecharia Sitchin. His first book is "THE 12th PLANET."

    Sitchin is an Israeli archaeologist who spent 30 years studying ancient mesopotamian texts. He takes things very literally. He says that 'nephilim' means "those who were cast down." Beyond that, you can't really say they were "fallen angels," or anything like that. That's a modern interpretation.

    Sitchin claims that the Nephilim are from another (the 12th) planet in the solar system. I believe he may be wrong on this. Don't let this Von Daniken-like view stop you: Sitchin is truly a specialist in the anicent languages and probably knows as much about his subject as anyone. His reading of the ancient texts is probably more viable than the traditional academic one (for instance, he says that the word 'worship' literally means "work for," as in "worship the lord" means "WORK FOR the lord"!! Translations of many ancient words are just guesses by the first, usually-biased-by-Chrisitianity scholars who encountered them.

    The Sumerian equivalent of Nephilim is "Anunnaki."

    Anyone interested in the Nephilim really ought to check out Sitchin. I would suggest reading the first 5 or 10 pages of The 12th Planet. If that doesn't interest you, forget about it.
     
  10. Rouge47

    Rouge47 Follower of Christ

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    Actually the term "fallen angels" has been used in Biblical texts several times. Our modern day archeology has uncovered many different texts and and historical hyroglyphics in ancient Egypt, Greece, Rome, Germany, and Arabic regions that all use the words "fallen angels","fallen ones", or even "fallen heroes." I believe that qualifies for not being so modern.

    (Haven't been here in ages, almost forgot.)
     
  11. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Namaste Paul James good to hear from you again...

    interestingly enough it appears bdw000 joined to post this one post and hasn't signed in since...

    Sitchin and the Annunaki strike again!
     
  12. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

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    Great to see you back, Paul James!
     
  13. taijasi

    taijasi Gnōthi seauton

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    Forgive me for not reading the whole thread ... but this is neat, and I'll catch up.

    I believe in the Nephilim, spoken of Biblically as rather large giants, whose fossilized remains have been found in various places - yet whose collective effigy was immortalized to us in the statues at Bamian/Bamiyan (Afghanistan), blown up recently by the Taliban. Objection will be made that those are Buddhist statues. ROFL

    Yep. The Buddhists are the ones who maintained them, and they are ancient - built by Lemurian cyclops, the Initiates of the time, to record Humanity's gradual diminuation in stature from our original size many tens of millions of years ago.

    The Nephilim refer to earlier classes of the Spiritual Beings who "fell" into generation, or began their evolution upon this planet as Divinely instructed. Until 18.5 million years ago, the Sons who had fallen were as yet without the spark of mind. Or, technically, the spark was there but incapable of any signficant response to the surroundings, therefore we were "animal-men," and were utterly unintelligent. Not LGMs, by any means! :p

    The final wave of Divine Sons incarnated, or "fell" into generation, thus ensouling the Nephilim or giants who were ready to "receive the spark" (or again, technically, to have it fanned/stimulated into activity), as did millions of our younger brothers in the animal kingdom who were also ready to advance. This progression brought us into the era of Humanity Proper, but to disregard the earlier 2 1/2 periods (called in the Norse/Greek Mythology the Polarian - Jotunheim, realm of Jotun, or frost giants, and Hyporborean - during which time we lived 1000 years, as reported by Pliny, Herodotus, as well as Virgil and Cicero, according to Wikipedia ... plus the first 1/2 of Lemurian days) ... is to discredit the entire progression of spiritual evolution up until that point! Why do that?

    So yeah, there were Nephilim. They were our ancestors. Scientific, anthropological, mythological, and esoteric evidence all corroborates this. Popular imagination pictures LGMs, but we don't need to invoke such far-fetched ideas to understand the Nephilim. Of course, LGMs have been here all along, at least dropping in from time to time, but that seems another question entirely, imo.

    taijasi
     
  14. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

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    Kindest Regards, Tai!

    Do you have anything that shows these fossilized remains? Can you point to which facilities house them or display them?
     
  15. taijasi

    taijasi Gnōthi seauton

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    runnin' out the door ... but google up stuff like giant human femur and such. that rings a bell, and if you can weed through the junk, you will find the gems you're after. I'll try and say more a bit later, when I get a chance ...

    regards,

    Taijasi
     
  16. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

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    Kindest Regards, Tai!

    Interesting...:D Did you look into the Dead Sea Scrolls you claimed were about the life of Jesus?
     
  17. taijasi

    taijasi Gnōthi seauton

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    I did not do so as such - but I'd like to pursue it. I posted something over on Esoteric last night (I think), which goes into some depth about the reasons for my belief in a date of 107/105BCE for his birth. An article I quoted gives some background on the term `Nazarean'/`Nazarite,' which I found useful - and also talkes about the Essenes.

    I have long considered it likely, if not intuitively obvious that there was a connection (Jesus as an Essene), and have been miffed by those who simply brought the hammer down and said, "no way, no connection, no how." The article I reference quotes Blavatsky, I think, in a clarification that Jesus had enough differences with the Essenes to go his on way, as a solo healer (Therapeute). This would seem to (at least potentially) reconcile two extreme viewpoints, in my book.

    Frankly, when it comes to picking out gems from among the mine of information found within the Dead Sea Scrolls, I feel I need a little guidance, and assistance. I will dig, but my own current position has been two decades in the arriving - and I dunno if these things will occur as soon as I'd like them to! So throw me a frickin' bone (is that Austin? lol) if you find the pearls before I do ... ;)

    Namaskar,

    taijasi
     
  18. seattlegal

    seattlegal Why do cows say mu?

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    Try this site, and click on the links in the navigation pane on the left for lots of interesting stuff...
     
  19. taijasi

    taijasi Gnōthi seauton

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    Thanks, Seattlegal! :)

    This is exactly what I've been looking for! Will bookmark and read ... (if I can tear myself away! lol)

    taijasi
     
  20. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

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    Kindest Regards, Seattlegal!

    Thank you for trying.

    I looked through about a dozen or so pages from that site, anything related to Giants, and I did not see anything but innuendo. Is there a specific page there you are aware of that points to any fossilized giant skeletons, where they are housed, who has studied them and their peer reviewed conclusions?

    After all, we are looking for scientific validation. Thanks.
     

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