Luciferianism

Discussion in 'Magick' started by Awaiting_the_fifth, May 14, 2005.

  1. Mastorn

    Mastorn New Member

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    Ave,

    I thought I'd drop in again and check in on this thread as it seems to have grown a great deal since I last posted. Since we've spoken I've explored a few more religious paths (Thelema and ceremonial magick mainly) and have come out an even more dedicated Luciferian. This doesn't mean I've rejected thoes other systems, but I've incorporated them into my own system. I've also been doing a lot of work with Michael Ford's stuff (whom appears to be the next big thing in magick).
    Is there a single religion known as Luciferianism? I'd say in all honesty, no! Its quite apparent just from this thread alone that two people whom are dedicated to their path can still end up with very different beliefs. This is because Luciferianism doesn't focus on dogma. Instead it embraces the individual as being the sole measure of all things. If two people are really embracing their deepest and truest selves then by all means they SHOULD end up as very different people. There might be a few shared characteristics (a great sense of pride, passion, and lust for life) but one could end up a quiet, but succesful philosopher and the other could end up the lead singer of a rock band.
     
  2. China Cat Sunflower

    China Cat Sunflower Nimrod

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    Hey Mastorn,

    O.K., by that standard I'm a Luciferian. I want to ask a silly assed question: Where does Luciferianism, that is to say the consensus of people identifying with it, fall on the lightness versus darkness scale? I'm thinking of slider controls in a RPG game where you adjust your chartacter's identity and attributes at the beginning? For sure you aren't Paladins, but are you over the horizon?

    Chris
     
  3. moseslmpg

    moseslmpg Member

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    So it seems that a Luciferian is just a normal person who really likes Lucifer for some reason. I know tons of people that fit that definition, except they like God more than Lucifer, because of indoctrination or whatever. Is there no religious requirement to being a Luciferian beyond worshipping a deity/concept with the name Lucifer?
     
  4. Blackrose

    Blackrose Luciferian Witch

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    Like you, I am not so sure that it can be said that there is a single Luciferian religion, because as I have said before in this thread and you have just repeated "Luciferianism is very individualistic."

    Yet, I feel there are many that have the wrong idea of what Luciferianism is. Luciferianism, not unlike Satanism, is a Left-Hand Path religion. What that means is that rather than falling upon our knees and groveling before a god or goddess, we see to BECOME gods and goddesses.

    For the most part, I think Luciferians see Lucifer as an architype or model of that which they seek and aspire to mold themselves into. Of course, one of the keys to understanding the Luciferian mindset is to look at the mythos that has arisen around the figure of Lucifer. Mainly where Lucifer is equated with the serpent in the Garden of Eden and says, "Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."

    There has been much debate as to what the "forbidden fruit" of the tree was. My own opinion is that it was knowledge - knowledge and experience. When you experience new things you gain knowledge and loose a bit of your innocence (ignorance). Thus, partaking of those things forbidden, the sweetest fruits, you shed your innocence and become as the gods knowing both good and evil.

    Well, enough for now. I'll end this before it fall off into a rant. ;)

    Blessings Bright & Dark,

    Blackrose
     
  5. Blackrose

    Blackrose Luciferian Witch

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    Religious requirements to be a Luciferian?

    One I can think of, to be like Lucifer.
     
  6. Blackrose

    Blackrose Luciferian Witch

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    OHH, is that so? And where did you get this tibit of information?

    Something you may find of interest is that there are some Gnostic Schools of thought that equate Lucifer with Christ.

    Interesting no? Both are refered to as the "bright and shining morning star".
     
  7. Blackrose

    Blackrose Luciferian Witch

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    Just thought I would give you a bit of an update on this situation (a bit belated but still relevent). I did a few workings to open a rift pouring forth negativity directed toward these vermin. Shortly after I started the workings one turned themselves into the police. A month after that the neighbors I had been have problems with for the past two year and believed connected to all this moved and I have not seen nor heard anything of them since.

    Life is good. :)
     
  8. moseslmpg

    moseslmpg Member

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    Well, that's not really a religious thing, but which Lucifer do you mean?

    Also, what's the point of getting revenge on those guys? Is it only to make you feel better or is there some arcane purpose? Surely, they would have got what they deserved in the end.

    It still looks to me, that Luciferianism and Satanism is just doing what you feel like and justifying it with a label with an individualized meaning. What distinguishes them from just being an impulsive, antithetical human (aside from a meaningless label)?
     
  9. Blackrose

    Blackrose Luciferian Witch

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    If you take the time to truly look, you will see a common thread of beliefs in either Luciferianism or Satanism. I do not feel the need to justify myself nor my beliefs to one that obviously has not taken the time to TRULY do the research, or else just does not has the mental capacity to comprehend it.

    FFF(F)
    Blackrose
     
  10. 17th Angel

    17th Angel לבעוט את התחת ולקחת שמות

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    Why has Satan no mercy?
    Why do we NEED mercy?
     
  11. moseslmpg

    moseslmpg Member

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    Ok geez, no need to get hostile. I have done as much research as my access to sources will allow. I was not criticizing so much the -isms, as I was commenting on the -ists...or I didn't mean to sound like I was. The thing is, in some cases Luciferianism and Satanism seem to be labels that people merely attach to themselves to justify their behavious, in others they are actually somewhat concrete belief systems, and to others they are merely the bases for some philosophical viewpoint.

    Case in point, Jeremy Christner seems to express a different set of beliefs regarding his form of Luciferianism than most people I have encountered. Unfortunately, his board went down before he could answer my questions regarding his beliefs and ideas.

    I guess the question I have is what makes one a Satanist/Luciferian and what makes one not a Satanist/Luciferian.
     
  12. Blackrose

    Blackrose Luciferian Witch

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    Alright, I'll try to explain this a bit. And by the way, sorry it took me so long to get back to you, I've been busy with other things.

    I do not think it right for me to trying speaking for the whole of Luciferianism, because as I mentioned toward the beginning of this thread, Luciferianism/ Satanism is very individualistic. Therefore, I will only speak my own views upon the subject.

    I normally refer to myself as Luciferian, because of its gnostic impetus, the quest for knowledge, (both spiritual knowledge and Self knowledge). I have, and do at times also refer to myself as a Satanist, Thelemite, Skirhand Witch (Skirhand being a term referring to the Left Hand Path), or Sorcerer.

    As I have mentioned before I do not worship any deity. Rather, I seek to align myself with the Adversary, as found in the mythologies of many religions, and the folklore of many cultures. The Adversary wears many deific mask, which I see as archetypes and anthropomorphism forces of nature.

    By aligning myself with these archetypes, I seek to become more whole, through gaining more self knowledge and knowledge of the spiritual planes.

    And yes, there is still a bit of a dualist nature to my belief system. Lucifer represents the Higher Self, the enlighten Self. While Ahriman represent the Beast, the base animistic nature. I seek to develop both to remain balanced. There are many other deific mask that I use too, but I'm trying to keep this somewhat simple and not write a book.

    As far as "good" and "evil", I seek to go beyond the normally accepted ideas of these terms. It is my belief that the only reason to live by a moral code instead of following your own nature is that your nature is "immoral". For those whose nature is more balance there is not as great a need for these codes. I also believe that such codes are counterproductive to the individual. To repress the natural inclinations only serves to create compulsions whereby the natural inclinations come out with more force. On the other hand if one gives vent to his natural inclinations in a positive manner, be it through ritual or some other means, they are healthier and do not have these compulsions. I guess, the one moral code, (if you wish to call it that), which most Satanist/Luciferians live by would be Crowley's, "Do as Thou will shall be the whole of the Law. And also, take responsibility for your actions.

    My own views concerning good and evil are that anything , which serves to strengthen is good, anything which serves to weaken is evil.

    As a Witch I also seek to be more in tune with the rhythms of Nature, and the other worlds, I venerate those that have gone before and to work with the shades of the dead, elementals, and the like.

    These are just a few of my beliefs, call them my religion, my philosophy, or my way of life.
     
  13. Agaliarept

    Agaliarept New Member

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    I don't know what has been said but as I am, I take beliefs from many religions and mix them for myself. As a Luciferian follower of sorts, I must say that Lucifer as the light-bearer is not Satan, the adversary. No where in holy scripture does it say the Lucifer becomes Satan. Satan as it stands is a seperate being from Lucifer. It is said that Lucifer conscripted Satan and an ancient earth god, which the name escapes me at the moment, in the battle against the so called "God." Lucifer is infact acting as hundreds of other gods have for 1000s of years. Now also, Jesus Christ claims to be the morning star, but as it stands Lucifer is the morning star. So if that is true then the full manifestation of christ must be Lucifer, which, ineffect would recreate christianity.

    Ben.
     
  14. Agaliarept

    Agaliarept New Member

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    Any way the point faces, its still a protective symbol.
     
  15. Bruce Michael

    Bruce Michael New Member

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    As long as you don't sit on it.....
     
  16. Blackrose

    Blackrose Luciferian Witch

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    Greetings,

    Welcome to the forum. I thought I would take the time to post a comment, seeing how it has been so long since my last post. Also, this is a subject that I enjoy talking (or writing) about.


    I, myself, am quite ecclectic, taking inspiration from a variety of sources. I believe that most modern religions have been influenced at least a little by other sources. For instance it is fairly safe to say that duality as a religious philosophy arose from Zoroastrian sources. The Luciferian Path has had many sources that have made up the various branches of it. Depending on what sources and to what degree those sources influenced a sect determines the form of Luciferian belief system in the modern day.

    Who ever said that either Satan or Lucifer were "beings" at all. I am and have been a Luciferian for the last 23 years, and I have come to the view point that there is only one source. That source would be comparable with the qabbalistic Ain Soph Ar, being everything and nothing, and full of a potentialities, beyond understanding let alone being able to limit it to a description or a name. All the "godforms" or god names are just deific mask for aspects of the source. Many times the same aspect of the source will be known by a multitude of names.

    Satan according to the Old Testament was not a being, more of a concept. I believe that they sometimes saw YHVH as a satan. When YHVH set his face against Israel he became a 'satan' to it.

    While the same is true of Lucifer, no where is Lucifer a being in the bible (unless you count the verse in Isiah (How art thou fallen...) where it refers to the King of Babalon.

    Does this mean they can not be used as deific mask for an aspect of the source. Certianly not, because all things spring from the source. Many of the ancient religions clothed wisdom in myth. For example look at the mythologies of the Greeks, Romans, Norse, and many others. Do you think they believed such things as literal? I don't think any age that gave use some of our greatest philosophers was that ignorant. Rather they used the symbolism of myth to explain great mysteries of the cosmos. The gods were the forces of Nature personified.

    Thus, I see Satan and Lucifer as the same force, yet a different aspect or having different qualities.

    Could you, mayhaps, be refering to Gog and Magog or even Behemoth?

    Of course, it is the same mythology as all the other religions over the ages in a new wrapper. Just they changed some of the dogma, you know the "Thou shall.." and Thou shall nots"

    Actually, there are sects of Gnosticism that believe just that.
     
  17. Iacchus

    Iacchus God of the Mask

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    The only time that the Bible mentions Lucifer, is in reference to the of King Babylon. ~ Isaiah 14 Whereas the worship of Satan, is none other than the worship of self.
     
  18. Iacchus

    Iacchus God of the Mask

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    And, when you think about it, it probably isn't altogether different than the notion of "an eye for an eye," meaning not to return evil for evil, as Jesus refers to in Matthew 5:38-39.
     
  19. Bruce Michael

    Bruce Michael New Member

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    G'day lightlucifer!
    You don't sound insane to this one. Your intuition is spot on in fact!

    We meet the Redeemed Lucifer in the condition between the Gate of Death and the Gate of Birth. However the unredeemed Lucifer still haunts the Earth- he would have been gobbled up by the Shaytan/Ahrimanic Dragon but the Progressive Powers are preventing that. The unredeemed Lucifer is known as Siva in India.

    This is right, it is very confusing and easily misunderstood.


    Here is Rudolph Steiner's quote:
    Deed of Christ: Lecture 2: The Deed of Christ and the Opposing Spiritual Powers. Lucifer, Ahriman, Asuras.
    The Holy Grail was fashioned from a stone that was knocked out of Lucifer's crown by Michael. Dr. Steiner talks about the crown as a corona of spirits and one in particular that fell in order to redeem humnanity.

    I think that Steiner's teaching is that certain Luciferic spirits
    where given a choice to follow Christ in the Ninth century- thus the
    importance of that time.
    Consider too, the nature of Prometheus- the Greek Lucifer.
    As I posted previously:
    Prometheus is representative of the Man of the fifth subrace (fifth Post Atlantean epoch.)
    (Prometheus being the one who nicked the fire principle from the gods
    themselves.)

    Hearty Greetings,
    Br.Bruce
     

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