5-yr olds caged

17th Angel said:
You heard of blind love eh?
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Is that blind love 17th or just utter selfishness? You hear so often these days that people have children, then feel hey are 'in the way' or 'a burden'.

So I agree, if you decide you can't cope with your kids then find someone who can. Maybe people are too ashamed to admit they can't cope?
 
Muslimwoman said:
Is that blind love 17th or just utter selfishness? You hear so often these days that people have children, then feel hey are 'in the way' or 'a burden'.

So I agree, if you decide you can't cope with your kids then find someone who can. Maybe people are too ashamed to admit they can't cope?
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I feel it would be ashamed.... but also it is HARD to let go.... Say you got some rare exotic animal... You are not totally understanding of how to look after such a creature... But you seriously do love it. Now... someone has noticed you are looking after this beautiful creature wrongly and what you are doing will result in a fatal situation.... That willing to give it up... That must be soooooo freaking hard you love this animal so much, and indeed you have to realise that to love it that much you do have to realese it.... That takes some doing.... Am I making sense? Or is my theory nonsense?
 
17th Angel said:
Am I making sense? Or is my theory nonsense?
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Yes it makes a lot of sense and I imagine for these people they thought they were doing the best they could. For me it doesn't excuse the lack of action by the people that knew what was happening. Maybe this is a result of the idea that we all have to be perfect and failure means you are socially unacceptable?
 
It depends... Ask my I think everyone is perfect as they are lol.... I wouldn't say to mistreat a child/animal/something that is living lol..... Be it by accident as socially unacceptable... It is more on morale grounds than social? lol uhm.... Yea.... I think if it is intentional then yah! You be a social misfit! :eek:
 
17th Angel said:
Yea.... I think if it is intentional then yah! You be a social misfit! :eek:
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Maybe this is the problem then 17th, because society (myself included) makes people feel this way they think it is better to hide their problem in a cage rather than ask for help?
 
Muslimwoman said:
Maybe this is the problem then 17th, because society (myself included) makes people feel this way they think it is better to hide their problem in a cage rather than ask for help?
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0o0o0o00oh I SEE!!!!! Sorry.... Yeah, I guess not many people are willing to help are they? And those who will, will obviously give punishments for your past actions already, so yeah there is shame, confusion, fear and blind mistakes...... :\
 
Perhaps we all, as a society, need to accept that some people cannot cope with certain things and offer support and help, rather than villify. Maybe then these people or their friends/neighbours would have asked for help a long time ago?

If I knew this was happening in my neighbours house I would go for help but I would want help for the parents as well as the children, not just arrested and taken to court. There must be psycholocigal problems for them to see this as acceptable, no?
 
Muslimwoman said:
Perhaps we all, as a society, need to accept that some people cannot cope with certain things and offer support and help
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:) Compare that to abouuuuut 14 posts back...... There is a big difference :)

Muslimwoman said:
If I knew this was happening in my neighbours house I would go for help but I would want help for the parents as well as the children, not just arrested and taken to court. There must be psycholocigal problems for them to see this as acceptable, no?
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If you knew. I think to be fair, we have to say even though it is right there under our nose doesn't mean we always realise it... For example your next door neighbour could be an assassin/heroine dealer/serial killer, right under your nose, but you may not realise it.... lol.

I find it interesting you can go from in a sense "no mercy" to realising that perhaps these people need help.... And punishment isn't they key.... Education and help is... That's cool ;)
 
17th Angel said:
I find it interesting you can go from in a sense "no mercy" to realising that perhaps these people need help.... And punishment isn't they key.... Education and help is... That's cool ;)
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It is all about compassion and education. At the Peace March last weekend we encountered numerous antiPeaceMarch protesters. Now when they were encountered with taunts and shouting (ie peace marchers not displaying nonviolent behaviour) it happily escalated. However when they were countered with love and compassion, and asked questions and got into serious discussion and contemplation, the energy diffused, we allowed ourselves to accept their points and they allowed themselves to see us in a different light.

14 posts, a millisecond, a breath, a decade, a lifetime...no telling how long it takes...
 
wil said:
It is all about compassion and education. At the Peace March last weekend we encountered numerous antiPeaceMarch protesters. Now when they were encountered with taunts and shouting (ie peace marchers not displaying nonviolent behaviour) it happily escalated. However when they were countered with love and compassion, and asked questions and got into serious discussion and contemplation, the energy diffused, we allowed ourselves to accept their points and they allowed themselves to see us in a different light.
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Again, education... Communication... It brought two sides together... Without that communication there.... There is no resolve...




wil said:
14 posts, a millisecond, a breath, a decade, a lifetime...no telling how long it takes...
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True.
 
17th Angel said:
I find it interesting you can go from in a sense "no mercy" to realising that perhaps these people need help.... And punishment isn't they key.... Education and help is... That's cool ;)
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I dont think I did take a no mercy stance 17th. I said at the beginning of the thread I could forgive the parents more easily than those that knew what was happening and did nothing to stop it. My first priority would be the children, then those that felt this action was somehow ok but my anger would be directed more toward the silent witnesses. By not taking action, usually because feel it is not their place to, they are actually supporting it.

flowperson said:
Hi All...Sometimes people wake up and do the right thing ! Yeaaaa !

flow....:)

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/27/w...l=1&adxnnlx=1190907284-8kEmHzVJ3PBXKvpHqZ5Nhg
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And sanity returns. :D
 
"my anger would be directed more toward the silent witnesses. By not taking action, usually because feel it is not their place to, they are actually supporting it"
Agreed, but I find it a little ironic. This is how many of us feel about the Muslim world in general, as you know.
 
bob x said:
Agreed, but I find it a little ironic. This is how many of us feel about the Muslim world in general, as you know.
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Here is a challenge for you Bob. Before you mention the word Muslim again, try to think of something good a Muslim has done. With your attitude that should keep you quiet for a while.
 
Before you mention the word Muslim again, try to think of something good a Muslim has done. With your attitude that should keep you quiet for a while.
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I had a shy and studious Muslim girl in class last term (head-scarf, no veil). It was a multi-hour evening class, so I gave them a break mid-way. She wanted to do her prayers then and asked if I knew a quiet place, so I unlocked the computer lab, and pointed out the compass directions. It became a daily routine, and one day when she left her mat behind, I made sure to pick it up before it vanished and gave it to her the next day, got profuse thanks. When we were discussing correlation and lines of "best fit" I mentioned that I wished that I had multiple colors of chalk so I could distinguish the various types of lines and points I was talking about. At the end of the term, she gave me a box of chalk, in all different colors. That was nice (no, she didn't need to "bribe" me, her A was quite solid!)
 
bob x said:
I had a shy and studious Muslim girl in class last term (head-scarf, no veil). It was a multi-hour evening class, so I gave them a break mid-way. She wanted to do her prayers then and asked if I knew a quiet place, so I unlocked the computer lab, and pointed out the compass directions. It became a daily routine, and one day when she left her mat behind, I made sure to pick it up before it vanished and gave it to her the next day, got profuse thanks. When we were discussing correlation and lines of "best fit" I mentioned that I wished that I had multiple colors of chalk so I could distinguish the various types of lines and points I was talking about. At the end of the term, she gave me a box of chalk, in all different colors. That was nice (no, she didn't need to "bribe" me, her A was quite solid!)
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Namaste Bob,

nice bit. I teach a Sunday school class, 12-18 year olds. Every now and then one of our congregation brings in her grandchildren when they are visiting. At one time she was Muslim and one of her sons and his family still are. I so enjoy having them in my class, their knowledge of the stories and the prophets is always valuable, as is the interaction and discussion with the other students about the similarities and differences in their beliefs and practices.
 
bob x said:
I had a shy and studious Muslim girl in class last term (head-scarf, no veil). It was a multi-hour evening class, so I gave them a break mid-way. She wanted to do her prayers then and asked if I knew a quiet place, so I unlocked the computer lab, and pointed out the compass directions. It became a daily routine, and one day when she left her mat behind, I made sure to pick it up before it vanished and gave it to her the next day, got profuse thanks. When we were discussing correlation and lines of "best fit" I mentioned that I wished that I had multiple colors of chalk so I could distinguish the various types of lines and points I was talking about. At the end of the term, she gave me a box of chalk, in all different colors. That was nice (no, she didn't need to "bribe" me, her A was quite solid!)
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YAY Bob, :D:D:D I am touched (and I don't mean mentally). Thank you for sharing this and for treating a sister with respect. You can have one of my brownies at the next party. ;)

May I ask you, if she wore a veil would you have acted the same way toward her? Could you accept her as the same studious Muslim? Just curious, not being rude.

Salaam
 
I would hope that I am always professional with my students, and would treat any one of them with respect, and grade them according to their work without regard to any irrelevant opinions of mine. I would probably be less apt to speak to a veiled student, but then, a veiled student would probably be less apt to speak to me: this is rather hypothetical, anyway, since the veiled women just don't seem to go to school (I don't mean that as a statement of stereotype, but as an observation of how it is in Detroit: you do see veiled women on the streets from time to time, I just don't see them at the colleges). Would I have been less accommodating about finding a good quiet room for her prayer if she had been veiled? That wouldn't make a difference: within limits of course, I always try to be accommodating to students; there was supposed to be a test on Yom Kippur, for example, but when I realized what the date was, I changed it.
 
I find it very surprising that you don't get many veiled women at your college. If you flick through a lot of the YouTube videos of discussions by Muslim women you will find a majority are filmed on US college/university grounds and the girls are obviously students there (as they don't wear wedding rings). Perhaps it is just in your area, as we know Muslims are not all the same the world over so maybe in Detroit they lean more toward the 'stay at home' mentality?

I am so pleased you can put your personal views to one side at work, it must be difficult as your views are so strong. I hope one year you get a good studious veiled girl in your classes, this may challenge your perceptions. ;)
 
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