5-yr olds caged

I'm sure it differs from place to place. Around here, the veil appears to be a symbol of extreme rejection of modernity in every sense of the word, including higher education.
 
Maybe I should send flyers showing veiled girls playing with their ipods, getting good degrees at Uni and winning awards for business start ups?! :D

Of course some choose to be stay at homes wives but many western women do this also. Others are very high achievers but choose to dress for their faith.

It's a funny old world. :)

Here is a good one:

Saudi Woman Wins UN Award for Work With NGOs
 
bob x said:
I would hope that I am always professional with my students, and would treat any one of them with respect, and grade them according to their work without regard to any irrelevant opinions of mine. I would probably be less apt to speak to a veiled student, but then, a veiled student would probably be less apt to speak to me: this is rather hypothetical, anyway, since the veiled women just don't seem to go to school (I don't mean that as a statement of stereotype, but as an observation of how it is in Detroit: you do see veiled women on the streets from time to time, I just don't see them at the colleges). Would I have been less accommodating about finding a good quiet room for her prayer if she had been veiled? That wouldn't make a difference: within limits of course, I always try to be accommodating to students; there was supposed to be a test on Yom Kippur, for example, but when I realized what the date was, I changed it.
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No no no this is what bugs the **** out of me.... A muslim can go in wearing ninja full battle wear.... And that is "OK" When I went to school, If I wished to -express- myself with the way I dress or my styles... I would be frowned upon, maybe even told off and not taken seriously at all by teachers because I looked like "trouble ahead" yet a muslim woman comes along and oh what an angel for wearing the clothing of her faith, how brave..... please.....
 
Tao_Equus said:
Still does not balance the attrocities carried out in the name of Islam:
Pickpocket's hand amputated in Mecca
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Here is my issue with these issues. I've got so many conflicting thoughts. First they are an ancient civilization by all accounts and their methodology over the years has kept them moving forward. We've got to appreciate their holding the light while Europe fell into the dark ages, they kept the math and science and art alive and well and kept a religion that suited them and religious laws that kept order.

So a hundred years ago we had executions, firing squads, beheadings, hangings all common in our civilizations. Our civilizations and gov'ts then began evolving, the US in relation to prisons, rehabilitation, drug laws, and capital punishment in general is still has a lot of catching up to do to get to where Europe is today.

Their civilization was/is fairly stagnant, the same, what worked for them continued to work for them, as a matter of fact in the 30's and 40's as we went over there to exploit their resources we glorified much of what we saw in our films, art and stories. But now that they discovered they have some rights to the massive amount of oil/resources that their countries contain, and they've decided to retain that right.

So while we are accelerating our pace of human rights, decrying the child labor laws we only enacted in reality a very short time ago, providing more for our people and freedoms, again in the scheme of things all of this is recent changes in our society, hell we even think we are eliminating our race issues, but what I am getting at is we now like to look sanctimoniously over our spectacles from our easy chairs while watching our HD flatscreens drinking imported alcohol how barbaric these other guys are across the world.

There by the grace of G!d go I, I say. And I think it is our turn to hold the light for them for a hundred years or so and see if they can grow and evolve as well instead of decrying their every move and expecting them to complete in 50 years what it took us 400.

just my thoughts.
 
Muslimwoman said:
Maybe I should send flyers showing veiled girls playing with their ipods, getting good degrees at Uni and winning awards for business start ups?! :D
Here is a good one:

Saudi Woman Wins UN Award for Work With NGOs
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Namaste MW,

As good as it is pesky old me must point out that was over two years ago, and ponder yeah, but what have you done for me lately. Also in reference to the below, I can't find any reference of the book which was being worked on. That sounds like something worth the world reading.
“This is an annual award and it is given to encourage development projects. It is the first time that a Saudi woman has received the award,” Dr. Al-Munajjed said.
Dr. Al-Munajjed has been working with several UN agencies on programs and social projects. She is the author of two published books and is currently working on a third book, which is based on personal interviews with 20 remarkable Saudi women who recount the events that shaped their lives and careers.
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Wil

That is a fair point of view. But I still feel it is better for us to express outrage than remain curious anthropologists.

Tao
 
Tao_Equus said:
But I still feel it is better for us to express outrage than remain curious anthropologists.
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Namaste Tao,

Tich Nat Hanh related a beautiful story about raising cabbage, and if they were not growing as they should would you yell at them, beat them, threaten to rip them out, or would you provide the water, nutrients, care so they could grow better and encourage them to produce the crop you desire?

Do you truly think outrage our best avenue of expression or concern, understanding and continuing dialog?
 
Tao_Equus said:
Still does not balance the attrocities carried out in the name of Islam:
Pickpocket's hand amputated in Mecca
Click to expand...

Oh the Saudi's lost the plot a long time ago but they are not demonstrative of the majority of Muslims.

Analysts say clerics of the kingdom's strict Wahhabi school fear they are losing their grip on society.

Losing their grip on reality more like. Are you aware that this looney sect of Islam has actually at one time declared all other Muslims as nonbeleivers? One of their crazy scholars actually declared jihad on the whole of the world, other than fellow wahhabis. We tend to just ignore them and treat them with the contempt they deserve.

wil said:
As good as it is pesky old me must point out that was over two years ago, and ponder yeah, but what have you done for me lately. Also in reference to the below, I can't find any reference of the book which was being worked on. That sounds like something worth the world reading.
Click to expand...

I wasnt trying to make any particular point about that lady, it was just a demonstration that Muslim women do achieve things outside the home and baby making. I posted that link as it was from Saudi and it is rare to find anywhere in the world where women are less respected.

I think to find her books you would have to search in Arabic. Nope they are in English, here is a review of one of her books called Saudi Women Speak:

More talk, less distortion by Kaelen Wilson-Goldie - Common Ground News Service
 
wil said:
Namaste Tao,

Tich Nat Hanh related a beautiful story about raising cabbage, and if they were not growing as they should would you yell at them, beat them, threaten to rip them out, or would you provide the water, nutrients, care so they could grow better and encourage them to produce the crop you desire?

Do you truly think outrage our best avenue of expression or concern, understanding and continuing dialog?
Click to expand...

Hi Wil,

Today I was at a World Development Movement (WDM) conference in Glasgow where the major topic of the afternoon discussion was on activism and how it can be expressed individually and politically. Part of this discussion of course ranged into the use of compulsion or force as a legitimate method of securing change.
Compulsion does not infer violence which I would only ever condone in actual defence, (not Bush style invading Iraq style 'defence'). But compulsion is the true be getter of change not weak dialogue. Outrage should be expressed on an individual and national level at obscene practices like execution and body mutilation and compulsion applied through pariah status being applied to nations that allow such human rights violations.
Being mildly miffed and expressing distaste never changed a thing ever. We need to take a lead in our global village and truly embrace the western liberal enlightenment in an aggressive way, not just pay lip service to grand ideals. We can freeze assets of leaders and state businesses and prevent and that way compel them to change.
And as for respecting cultural differences the first and foremost thing we all share is our common humanity, that never changes, we do not get or lose that by accident of place of birth. And we are all owe a duty of common humanity to our brothers and sisters wherever and under whatever culture they may live.
Being PC can be taken too far. Calling such action as I would support is called by some neo-colonialism. It is nothing of the kind. It is common humanity. I think western liberalism if rolled out on a global scale is not the imposition of colonial values but a quest for true equality and emancipation from outmoded historical baggage. In our global village we need global values. If we do not stand up in outrage and shout till we are heard then nothing will change.
Despite appearances most people are not cabbages and do have a desire to see justice for all. They just dont feel included enough in the debate to get actively involved. If they realised how truly paranoid and easily influenced the average politician is they might be more active. As few as 20 or so letters written to a politician is enough to get him to raise an issue. 100 and (s)he will campaign on it. But most people never bother because they have no idea it is that easy.
So while I do respect the position you take on it I do not agree with it. Millions die every year from things that are easy to fix with a healthy dose of activism led political changes. So I will continue to be outraged at barbaric practices and take it out on someone who is elected as my rep to the policy makers. If just 1% actively joined me then we would see change.

Regards
Tao
 
oh I dont mean to be disrespectful Tao but you are hobnobbing in some very fine circles. Think of me when you are there. Love the Grey. oh and remember, Mum is the law. (share or no one gets it)
 
Salaam Tao

Great link, thank you and keep up the good work.

Oh and can you get clean water for the poor people in my town please. :) (honestly it is nearly 2008 and my mother in law still has sludge coming out of her tap :mad:). Not to worry though the town is trying to do somehing about it, although I am not sure zillions of gallons of chlorine is good for you.
 
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