The Flood

Discussion in 'Comparative Studies' started by pohaikawahine, Aug 8, 2005.

  1. pohaikawahine

    pohaikawahine Elder Member

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    I thought I would try one other new thread which is connected to the other one on "who are we and why are we here" but with a more definitive story that crosses all religions and many ancient traditions. "The Flood" is found in most creation stories and of course in many religious texts. There is another thread starting on the lost continent of "Atlantis" and I posted a note that there are actually two lost continents .... one is Atlantis and the other is called these days Lemuria (but was known to our ancients as 'Ta Rua'). The stories of "Ta Rua" are found in our most ancient chants (buried in the meanings within meanings). Both continents were lost to the oceans and disappeared beneath the waves of a great flood. Stories of "The Flood" can be found everywhere ... it is actually one of the great links in most religions and ancient traditions. I going to share a prophecy in ours related to the flood and I will give the interpretation later.

    We have a chant called the Kumulipo (means the deep source) and it is a creation chant (some refer to it as a genealogy chant, but it is a creation chant) .... about line 1530 of the chant is read:

    "Pola'a
    Hanau ka'ino, hanau ke au
    Hanau ka pahupahu, kapohaha
    Hanau ka haluku, ka haloke,
    ka nakulu, ka honua naueue
    Ho'iloli ke kai, pi'i ka mauna"

    BorN is Pola'a (Pola'a is a supernove first seen July 6, 1054AD)
    Born is rough weather, born was the current
    Born was the booming of the sea, the breaking of foam
    Born the roaring, advancing and receeding of waves, the rumbling sound,
    the earthquake
    The sea rages, rises over the beach" (It is a story of The Flood)

    But the chant when read at its deeper levels also tells us a prophecy about another flood yet to arrive. The first flood was called Kai-a-ka-hina-lii .... it is connected with the orange hue created in the sky during a supernova .... the next flood will be called Kai-aka-hulumanu (sea of the bird feathers) because the waves will pour over the mountains killing the birds living in the trees. I share this prophecy not to suggest that there is an "end time" because its inner translation does not tell that the world will end .... it only tells us that an internal change will happen in each of us that will end the way we are now and change us forever. The "fountain of youth", the "flood" are connected in this same concept. The story of Noah and the Flood is also connected but not in a way most would propably suspect. When we stop searching outside of ourselves for the answers or looking to others, we will begin a new path that will open the door to a old and new wisdom. Why do others think "The Flood" is a cross-cultural, cross-religious story? I'll share my thoughts on this at a later time.
     
  2. tropheus74

    tropheus74 Member

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    With all due respect, there are some things about the flood myth and atlantis/lemuria as interpreted today, that really bother me.

    I am not much of a believer in "the flood" as an actual event. Yes, many societies have a story of the flood. It is not surprising when you think that ancient man needed to remain close to a water source in order to survive. Rivers and lakes, over time, fluctuate in elevation. The strongest flood stories evolved in the middle east, nestled between the unpredictible tigris and euphrates rivers. Floods were a fact of life, and a cause of death. After such a tragedy, people would seek a reason, or closure. It is in our nature. If mankind were hydrophobic, it is likely there would be a shared memory of "the great sandstorm".

    As far as Lemuria and Atlantis go; It has always frustrated me that people are prepared to dismiss the tremendous achievements of ancient man by crediting said achievements to a more powerful entity. The pyramids were built by human beings; no different then you and me, but with less accumulated historical knowledge, and I would argue, much more ingenuity than many of us today.

    This is my main problem with the Atlantis theory; it is the paradigm of the fallen people; It feeds the notion that we were once better than we are today; that we descended into debauchery (Atlantis, the tower of Babel, Sodom and Gommorrah, the recycled worlds spoken of in some hindu texts, etc.)

    What I find fascinating about these stories is that we have a glimpse into the ancient mind; Religion evolved in the context of human culture; It became more complex as language developed. What I would love to see is a comparative study of Indo-European language and the corresponding religions. By tying these together, we might get a better understanding of where, mentally and spiritually, we were 5000--100,000 years ago.

    Anyway, I digress. Comments and criticism are welcome.

    --Tropheus
     
  3. Kelcie

    Kelcie Kelcie

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    Hi pohaikawahine,

    I agree, your deeper understanding of the flood sheds a lot of light.

    Thanks
    Kelcie:)
     
  4. pohaikawahine

    pohaikawahine Elder Member

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    Posted by Tropheus "This is my main problem with the Atlantis theory; it is the paradigm of the fallen people; It feeds the notion that we were once better than we are today;"

    Thank you for sharing your perspective.I don't know if I would think we are a fallen people, but I do believe that we were once better than we are today in the use of our brains .... the Tibetians have exercises that help to use more of the brain at one time .... and what we have lost is this ability .... to me the flood and the lost continents are primarily metaphors of the time in which we lost this ability .... don't get me wrong, there may in fact also be a physical great flood that took place and may take place again .... but the important flood is the internal flow of energy .... "as above,so below" or "as within, so without" ....while the Hawaiian chant describes the "flood" it is also only the surface level meaning of the chant itself .... what is found in the depth of the chant is a different message .... and I believe this may be true of other "flood" stories.
    he hawai'i au, pohaikawahine
     
  5. Kelcie

    Kelcie Kelcie

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    Hi Tropheus

    I don’t think it is so much that we dismiss the tremendous achievements of ancient man by crediting said achievements to a more powerful entity”. I think it is more that we have become less and less aware of our true nature. Perhaps this is in the name of progress in the world of technology and the like; perhaps we have lost the understanding of our true nature in this pursuit. However which way it has evolved, it does not mean our true nature has ceased to exist.

    This is because the true nature of man is inherent in all it has never changed, it has and will forever remain constant, whether we have been aware of this or not. Whether we build new physical realities or not. In this light then I tend to agree with you. We are not any different to the ancients. The notion that they were better than we are today is subject to how one perceives this betterness (if there is such a word). The modern mans mind seeks to improve his quality of life and express his essence through science and discovering the unknown, and often they look everywhere they can conceivably look in the world for truth except for the one place it can be found and that is as pohaikawahine says, it can only be found from within.

    Kelcie:)
     
  6. InLove

    InLove at peace

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    Hi, Peace to All Here--

    I am constantly amazed at the neverending cycle (which I believe will end someday). "Man" looks at things like the pyramids and thinks, "I did this--I am so smart"--or "the Ancients did this--they needed no "God". But I truly believe that if we could really listen to those ancient voices, they would tell us that it was all about God.

    For what you think it is worth....

    InPeace,
    InLove
     
  7. Kelcie

    Kelcie Kelcie

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    Hi InLove,

    I wasnt aware "man" of today thought that ancients did not attribute their accomplishments to God? Or that they did not need a God?

    From my understanding the ancients dwelt within God and yes it was all about God but my understanding also is that "man" today are well aware of this "presence of God" that the ancients lived with.

    Perhaps if man of today do view it the way you describe, this would mean they see God as outside themselves. So I would agree if they listen deep enough the truth of how it was will be revealed.

    Kelcie:)
     
  8. InLove

    InLove at peace

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    Hi-Peace to All Here--

    Yes, Kelcie, in scrolling back over the thread, I realize that I must have misread something. I appreciate your kindness, and glad you found some bit of truth in what I was trying to say.

    I have some questions to ask, but they are a bit off the original thought of this thread. Maybe I will see you all somewhere down the road, and I look forward to all the wisdom that I may gather from you there.:)

    InPeace,
    InLove
     
  9. InChristAlways

    InChristAlways Well-Known Member

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    Hi poha. Your thoughts are always interesting. I once did a paper on Noah and the Ark associated with Jesus in the christian NT.

    The waters shown in Genesis covering the earth turn into "living waters" in Zechariah. The final end is suppose to be with "fire and burning" but the "living waters" will eventually quench it.
    I like to do word studies on the Bible with both the OT and NT and helps me better to interpret it. Peace and love to you and yours.
    Steve

    Genesis 1:2 the earth hath existed waste and void, and darkness [is] on the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God fluttering on the face of the waters [#04325],

    Daniel 12:6
    and he saith to the one clothed in linen, who [is] upon the waters [#04325] of the river, `Till when [is] the end of these wonders?'

    Malachi 4:1 "For behold, the day is coming, Burning like an oven, And all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly will be stubble. And the day which is coming shall burn them up," Says the LORD of hosts, "That will leave them neither root nor branch.

    (Young) Zechariah 14:8 And it hath come to pass, in that day, Go forth do living waters[#04325] from Jerusalem, Half of them unto the eastern sea, And half of them unto the western sea, In summer and in winter it is.

    Exodus Chapter 14 is one of the most awsome chapters in the Bible to me, and I looked up how the word for divided is used for God parting the sea through Moses, and saw it was the same word used in Zech 14 for the splitting of Mt Olives for the Remnant of OC Israel to pass through at the Time of the End in Daniel. Pretty Fascinating.

    Exodus 14: 13 And Moses said to the people, "Do not be afraid. Stand still, and see the salvation of the LORD, which He will accomplish for you today. For the Egyptians whom you see today, you shall see again no more forever..................21 Then Moses stretched out his hand over the sea; and the LORD caused the sea to go [back] by a strong east wind all that night, and made the sea into dry [land,] and the waters were divided [#01234]. 22 So the children of Israel went into the midst of the sea on the dry [ground,] and the waters [were] a wall to them on their right hand and on their left.

    Zechariah 14:4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the Mount of Olives shall be split [#01234] in two, From east to west, [Making] a very large valley; Half of the mountain shall move toward the north And half of it toward the south.
     
  10. pohaikawahine

    pohaikawahine Elder Member

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    aloha e steve .... mahalo nui (many thanks) for sharing your thoughts on this subject .... if you have seen some of my other postings, you will see that I believe that the inner meanings of many biblical texts, as well as many ancient traditions, is related to an energy within the human body that must rise and cross over into the brain which is opened to visions and revelations ...

    the flood, the fountain of youth are both, in my view, related to this internal process and that is why I think there is a strong interfaith connection in the stories .... it lies in the symbols themselves ....

    in meditation (which is one way to move this energy) there are basically five levels of consciousness .... built around the concepts of earth, water, air, fire and then the renewed mind .... you take your mind (earth) into meditation (water) and you rise to the 3rd stage (air) then you are touched by the 4th stage which is fire (these are all related to various parts of the body and the brain) .... the rising of the water, or the flood, takes you up into the higher levels of consciousness .... that energy must move up the spinal column into the center of the brain, the location of the pineal gland (that place called peniel where one comes face to face with god) (aka the third eye or the single eye filled with light) .... on its way up the spinal column as it reaches the head it also passes between the 12th nerve on one side (the hypoglossal) and on the other side an organ called olivara (the olive) .... the energy must pass between the two mountains of the olives ....

    I know that many will not see this in the same light as I and may not agree, but no matter how I look at it and no matter the particular biblical source, each time if I look at the symbols and the numbers I come to the same place ..... that is why looking on the outside one can never find the holy grail, one can never find the fountain of youth, and for certain the "flood" will repeat itself when we find that inner path .... the hawaiian reference to the next great wave in the chant the Kumulipo (meaning the deep source in the ancient ocean) tells us that it will go to the mountaintop killing even the birds that live in the trees .... but it is only a metaphor for the inner ancient ocean that must rise to the top of our head to reach a stage of wisdom or enlightnment .... these are just my thoughts to share .... he hawai'i au, pohaikawahine
     

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