Spiritual fascism

InquisitiveInHalifax

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Re: Equality not Superiority

Fern said:
I was told daily as a child "The ground is level at the foot of the cross, you are no better than they and they are no better than you". I often challenge those who state they are superior to me to live up to this message - sometimes they do, sometimes they don't - but they almost always think about it.

I don't know a lot about other faith traditions, but my guess is that there is something in them all which says something similar to the saying my mother taught me as a child. I'm willing to bet that God - whoever you see the deity as - loves each and every one of us, equally, For some reason, this thought or belief seems to elude us quite frequently, hence, we become sure that God loves us more because we are right - or more right than 'those' people... A sad commentary on human kind.

Peace to all,

Fern
The message my mother has been trying to teach me the last few years since she's entered into A.A., albeit a little late in my life, is 'Would you rather be right or be happy?'. For some reason this thread brought that to my mind. I wish that I could claim that my ego hasn't driven me to want to be right instead of happy but I am no better than anyone else, it's the human condition. We all want to be right sometimes, we all want to be loved and for some reason we seem to think that in order to be loved we must prove ourselves more worthy than another. My mother may not be a well-educated woman but she's one of the smartes people I know :)
 

Quahom1

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Re: Equality not Superiority

InquisitiveInHalifax said:
The message my mother has been trying to teach me the last few years since she's entered into A.A., albeit a little late in my life, is 'Would you rather be right or be happy?'. For some reason this thread brought that to my mind. I wish that I could claim that my ego hasn't driven me to want to be right instead of happy but I am no better than anyone else, it's the human condition. We all want to be right sometimes, we all want to be loved and for some reason we seem to think that in order to be loved we must prove ourselves more worthy than another. My mother may not be a well-educated woman but she's one of the smartes people I know :)

That's ok, the world runs on smart people. See, smart people surround themselves with intelligent people, in order to insure the job gets done...;)

Your mom I think, is showing you that you are both, and suggesting you make use of your dual talents. I know where she is coming from (albeit late). To be happy is to be alive. Right, however can be dead right. And dead it dead, regardless of how right we were.

my thoughts.

v/r

Q
 

Therapon

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foundationist.org said:
I have met quite a few people in life who claimed to be spiritual … even somewhat enlightened – yet these people I know have the very nerve to regard themselves as superior also – and even state that those who are not as enlightened as they have no particular right of life.

This is Spiritual Fascism.

I thought it was called Gnosticism:confused: (No disrespect to Gnostics intended)

I'm sure that the idea of a spiritual hierarchy is quite acceptable provided that those at the top are not antagonostic, bullying or patronising but are concerned about and helpful to those on the lower steps of the ladder:)
 

wil

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1. a. The Dali Lama says you know you are enlightened when everyone you see you see as enlightened.

b. My preacher says, so I go to the mall to see how far I have to go.


2. a. The first indication someone isn't enlightened is that they say they are.


b. The second sign is when they say they are more enlightened than you.
 

flowperson

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wil said:
1. a. The Dali Lama says you know you are enlightened when everyone you see you see as enlightened.

b. My preacher says, so I go to the mall to see how far I have to go.


2. a. The first indication someone isn't enlightened is that they say they are.


b. The second sign is when they say they are more enlightened than you.

Wil:

LOL

flow....:D
 

Therapon

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wil said:
1. a. The Dali Lama says you know you are enlightened when everyone you see you see as enlightened.

b. My preacher says, so I go to the mall to see how far I have to go.


2. a. The first indication someone isn't enlightened is that they say they are.


b. The second sign is when they say they are more enlightened than you.

Then by the same token; is someone who denies that they are enlightened, really enlightened:confused:
 

wil

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Therapon said:
Then by the same token; is someone who denies that they are enlightened, really enlightened:confused:
I think that could be an indication that they are, but more likely either:

a. they are on the path

b. they could care less
 

Eclectic Mystic

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~Bump~

I like cheetos. I'm eating cheetos right now and I say that they're awesome. If anyone disagrees with this, they are wrong.
 

Wonderer

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I have met quite a few people in life who claimed to be spiritual … even somewhat enlightened – yet these people I know have the very nerve to regard themselves as superior also – and even state that those who are not as enlightened as they have no particular right of life.

This is Spiritual Fascism.

There is a spiritual truth that we are all equal, despite our diversity – and that we should endeavour to love one another despite whatever faults we may perceive in each other.

Those who claim to be spiritual, yet regard as worthless others for no crime other than being different to they, are not spiritual people – they are merely fascists with some limited measure of spiritual insight.

Spiritual people may be regarded so, not for their beliefs, not for theor thoughts, but for their humility. The humble do not elevate themselves. Those who are humble are greatest before God.

It's not about being spiritual or branding yourself or other people with such a label. I'ts about specific human qualities and realizations rather, to quote the Dalai Lama: "Loving-Kindness is my religion"...
 

The Undecided

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This is a definite concern within Christianity. One of the things that pushes me more from it is the high atitude of superiority, the judementalism, the legalism, and the general ignorance of the words of Jesus. Spiritual fascism as you call it is endemic, even among those who appear as moderates with a friendly smile and wave. Inside they know you're going to Hell and they are not. It is a terrible situation.


Hi Dave of the Web, I agree that a lot of Christian churchs have a high attitude of superiority. However, I sometimes go to a Unitarian church which is quite the opposite of this. As some of there core beliefs they have the following:

- No religion can claim an absolute monopoly on the Holy Spirit or theological truth.

- Though the authors of the Bible were inspired by God, they were human and therefore subject to human error.

- That reason, rational thought, science and philosophy coexist with faith in God.

- The life and teachings of Jesus Christ as an example model for living one's own life.

- That human nature in its present condition is neither inherently corrupt nor depraved (Original Sin), but capable of both good and evil, as God intended.

- The rejection of traditional doctrines that they believe malign God's character or veil the true nature and mission of Jesus Christ, such as the doctrines of predestination, eternal damnation and the vicarious sacrifice or satisfaction theory of Atonement.

People of all faiths are welcome and as a principle there is always a reading from the Bible and one from another source, to avoid any 'attitudes of superiority'. I have heard readings from the Qur'an and Arabic poetry before, which fitted in well with the other content of the service. I can definitely recommend going to a Unitarian service.

The Undecided.:)
 

Nick the Pilot

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Hi everybody!

I think there is one very important aspect to fascism. If you disagree with religious fascists, they will punish you, maybe even kill you. To me, this is the worst aspect of any religion.
 

Dogbrain

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This is a definite concern within Christianity. One of the things that pushes me more from it is the high attitude of superiority, the judgmentalism, the legalism, and the general ignorance of the words of Jesus. Spiritual fascism as you call it is endemic, even among those who appear as moderates with a friendly smile and wave. Inside they know you're going to Hell and they are not. It is a terrible situation.

To support your points:

"Judge not, lest ye be judged."
"Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who have trespassed against us."
"Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, 'God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in a week, I give tithes of all that I possess.' And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as hiseyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, 'God be merciful to me a sinner.' I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for everyone that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted"
 

woodsyroots

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I transcended to a pure infinite nothingness space - was I angry on returning. You bet.
Watch out street Ministries, my wrath has arrived.
How did I do that. By trusting my oldest friend that came back in my life like the Celestine Prophecy said in a 20 year cycle. Two friends in 20 year cycles and one lead me up the grind to the other working at the top. They did not know each other. It was still a few years after that and it was a leap in the dark. It was hope of good based on past performance. I started yoga around 29ish and transcended or completed around 58. Do I envy materialists. yes, sometimes. I honestly didn't care anymore, about all who might or would judge me, time was up, and my friend was there within, blessing in my 9th hour. No more judgmentalness, just go for it. Bingo. I arrived. Judge not and you will arrive in a non judgmental place. I still have questions or I wouldn't be on here but I say it was the missing piece of my puzzle without which I would have been totally lost to the name of the game. As is, I'm still in it. I will also add that I was not in any position to change my situation much being very poor so I had to adopt a tolerant attitude even amidst abuse and destruction. It wasn't easy but the tools I had were mighty. Yoga and Dreams. Visions, music and a character of a teacher' in the distance. A local woman from the BC Interior. Died at 94. highly accomplished. I had fun keeping fit and contented with little, just kept the yoga practice going, lots of bike riding and such. Learning computor, but $ didn't come easily and in fact not at all so I did this other.
 

tychomorpheus

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I have met quite a few people in life who claimed to be spiritual … even somewhat enlightened – yet these people I know have the very nerve to regard themselves as superior also – and even state that those who are not as enlightened as they have no particular right of life.

This is Spiritual Fascism.

There is a spiritual truth that we are all equal, despite our diversity – and that we should endeavour to love one another despite whatever faults we may perceive in each other.

Those who claim to be spiritual, yet regard as worthless others for no crime other than being different to they, are not spiritual people – they are merely fascists with some limited measure of spiritual insight.

Spiritual people may be regarded so, not for their beliefs, not for theor thoughts, but for their humility. The humble do not elevate themselves. Those who are humble are greatest before God.

There is nothing inherently wrong with superiority.

I think its rather naive to believe we are all equal. Understanding diversity doesnt mean that we can also draw a flat line connecting the spiritual level of each individual. For example i could consider i am equal to Jesus. Hence there is nothing to learn from his word. I dont think that would be true.

First of all divesity does not necessarily determine spiritual enlightment. One could really choose to be common yet become enlightened while doing so.

Fascism is about discrimination. That is when you deny someone's rights based on the existing inequalities. Do the people you know discriminate? Do they refuse to spread their enlightenment to anyone who is not their foe? That would be fascist. But if they simply feel superior, that is not nerve, that is an individual challenge that is their path.

Finding someone worthless is a terrible sin because it denies God's plan, its like you know better than Him. But do your spiritual friends *really* find people worthless? Or is it just an expression? Because finding someone worthless means you can shoot them and dispose of their body in the river without any consequences.

Humility. That is a subject for a separate thread.

I think from your description that you have hit a soft spot in the annoyance ingnorance causes into anyone who is not ignorant. This itchy feeling an ignorat causes in you can drive out the worst feelings of superiority or discrimination. But how do you handle the aggresive ignorant?
 

woodsyroots

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I received an update in my email box about spiritual fascism. So I investigated. I want to say to whomever is troubled with superiority dislike as many are, that my experience has totally been we're all equal at source. Some masters say when we find that source and know there is no more to learn. Indeed my feeling said my life was over. Yet I'm here...

The one thing that might block someone from source is awareness brought about through experience. How that awareness experience happens is each persons journey. Inquiry is always the best place to be.

So there I am standing up to the mirror at Bikram's Yoga with someone whispering "don't leave before it's over" encouragingly. I'm looking at the fruits of my 30 years. I'm seeing the beauty in me, I'm leaving oxygenated, animated. The second or third class into my $200 investment the teacher unexpected threw a mat beside me sending my heart racing and my focus twisted but clear enough to see the competition act. I left still in beauty but later at the sitting meditation tears streaming down my face about a relationship I was afraid would leave. I never went back to that studio. I lost my $200. They had the gall to reinstat me for another $200. I asked them finally not to email anymore. Yet, this is my consciousness just like she said. I only wish I could have enjoyed my highest moment much longer before the rug was pulled out from under my feet. I know what you mean. I know we are all equal at source, I know that some other's meet me there in that sacred space, cause they know of it. take heart. keep on trucking. what else can we do. it comes it goes.
 

woodsyroots

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That's a ha ha. Bob. I was re reading that original post spiritual fascism. I don't know anyone who would present themselves like that or that arguement. Maybe you live in a different country. You need to avoid them. They are weird. I don't think we can all love each other equally without a method which takes us to a common experience. It's a process not a given it seems. Find different company. Have a good life. enjoy.
 
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