Spiritual fascism

Discussion in 'Belief and Spirituality' started by foundationist.org, Mar 22, 2003.

  1. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    No? I have no problems with forgiveness. I have no need to forgive you of what may be perceived as intended as an insult, as I do not blame you for your actions. Once one eliminates blame in their life, forgiveness is no longer a requirement...
    Is this discussion about another?

    or about you?

    It is hard to have a discussion when the topic and goal posts move.
     
  2. luecy7

    luecy7 New Member

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    Like I said: no, I am not surprised that you believe you do not have to forgive. I am also not surprised that you believe the database record against another person, a total stranger to you, has any accuracy to it whatsoever.

    Do you think it matters?

    I don't really see a discussion when someone thinks of it as a game. You can position your own goal posts to wherever you wish.
     
  3. A Cup Of Tea

    A Cup Of Tea Well-Known Member

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    Please, luecy7.
    Aren't we all hear to discuss the world and how different we all perceive it.
    You seem upset by what wil is saying and, even though I personally don't understand way, you are entitled to it. Can't you just tell us how you feel, because right now I think you are being very defensive and the topic have seamed to move to wil.

    I am very interested in what you have to say about this, and I would like to know why you define this as fascism and perhaps even spiritual fascism and not just apathy, greed, fear and what not. What your describing seams to be nothing more than a soulless system to protect the companies rather than punishments directed at certain people.
     
  4. william b

    william b New Member

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    Very true.
    I have encountered many of "enlightened" people on the internet who are just tools.
    I think of myself as spiritual....but I don't believe anyone on earth is enlightened. I think that is an idea that some people are really in love with. Even the Dalai Lama doesn't think of himself as enlightened. I think a person has to be really full of themselves to make such a claim.
    I actually wonder if even the Buddha would use such a term. Buddha means "awakened one" but did the historical Buddha go around saying "enlightenment, enlightenment, enlightenment...?" I'm no so sure.
    To me it is the same game as a Christian bragging that they are saved. Are you really? Why are you bragging about it. Did God come down and shake your hand and congratulate you on making such a wonderful deal?
    And the "enlightened" people are the same. They will brag about having no ego. Oh, they'll bring it up casually, and tell you how they understand everything because they experienced it. They know how to talk in that condescending way while constantly reminding you they have no ego and not see what an ass they are making of themselves. It's kind of funny.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2011
  5. Saltmeister

    Saltmeister The Dangerous Dinner

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    I think what people really mean by "enlightened" is "esoteric" or "learned."

    Western culture itself is a kind of "enlightenment." We think our culture and society is better and superior to ancient cultures and societies. We think Western culture is superior to Islam. We think Western culture is superior to Chinese culture. We think Western culture is superior to the culture of native Americans and Australian aborigines. We think Western culture is superior to the culture of Africans, their tribal and animistic culture. The West is more enlightened than any other culture, society or thought system, except perhaps for the Japanese. They seem to make better cars. Their quality control, their Toyotas are better -- although I have to say, those sticky brake pedals aren't a good sign.

    The arrogance of Western culture is what leads to the banning of the Islamic veil and kosher slaughter practices. It is because of the arrogance of Western culture that Africa is still in poverty. It is because of the arrogance of Western culture that Western countries sabotaged attempts at cutting CO2 emissions at Copenhagen. So much for being enlightened.

    The arrogance of the West is the primary cause of pollution in the world. The arrogance of the West was the cause of the global financial crisis.
     
  6. william b

    william b New Member

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    I see your point, but arrogance is also bad in any culture. America hasn't cornered the market on that particular resource.
     
  7. Paladin

    Paladin Purchased Bewilderment

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    Right, but we are working on it. :p

    There is a funny thing that happens when you actually begin to see the illusory nature of what we usually refer to as "Me" or "I", it begins to seem silly to be angry and judgmental-though I still manage it- because you begin to see the transitory nature of everyone's persona.

    Normally, I can be a very judgmental person, though as I get older it gets a little better. But this whole ego thing is very interesting when you begin to investigate it, it is quite real on one level yet so malleable and observable, and therefore it falls under the subject-object relationship.

    So one wonders if I can observe and affect ego, who am I?

    I'm still working on this :)
     
  8. NiceCupOfTea

    NiceCupOfTea Pathetic earthlings

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    so you think that western culture what ever that is is responsible for all the worlds ills ? is that right ?
     
  9. NiceCupOfTea

    NiceCupOfTea Pathetic earthlings

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    lately i think that I have a pet ego that can be quite amusing, but really its just another ego game.

    also i must say that sometimes i like to provoke people who come across as being super spiritual just to see how they respond, a bit cruel i know.
     
  10. luecy7

    luecy7 New Member

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    Here here, or there there?

    No, I just shifted the examples from non-personal to personal, intentionally. While I am opposed to wil's stated viewpoint, I haven't seen him running around with fasces taking orders from a database, or telling people via a database to use fasces against someone. Fascism tends to be non-personal. For example if a Roman authority figure tells some lictors to use their fasces against the citizens, neither the Roman authority figure, nor the lictor, really wants much of a relationship in their actions. The lictor attributes his cruelty to good punishment, but mechanically is placing the responsibility on the Roman authority. The Roman authority is in power, but doesn't want a personal relationship with the people he is ordering the lictors to go beat. If the Roman authority could insert a database between himself and the lictors, and even remain anonymous, then he would.

    I could relate a lot of behavior back to individual values.

    In the USA the best example of fascism that I have encountered involves the behavior of the department of Homeland Security, US customs, the CIA, and the businesses that are asked (forced) to obey the state department under ITAR. ITAR is the best example of fascism that I have encountered. All of the people involved define a discriminatory wall between a citizen and a foreigner, and dictate that thou shalt obey them over others, and treat people unequally. Does anybody know the growth rate of ITAR (fascism) in the last 10 years? We encountered an ITAR contamination: a component originally developed by a company that was compensated with taxpayer dollars. The component is sold openly to people by a manufacturer. Although it is not used in any US weapon according to the manufacturer, the component is on a secret US munitions list. It is there because like an aircraft, vehicle, or box cutter knives, it could potentially be used as a component of a weapon (fasces) against the will of people, or used as a tool per the will of people. We used it for the latter. ITAR is a database implemented by force, really without the approval of the people. I want no part in it, and I routinely speak against the behavior and the individuals who commit the evil that I have come across, so I do get harassed as a result of that. How does it make me feel? The same as when I encounter someone who tells a lie or commits a crime. Fascism is just a fancy name to describe a military turned against the people it pretends to be serving. I encountered some similar situations with other countries, and their behavior put the USA to shame.

    It doesn't have to be government. I rented a uhaul trailer for a one way trip, and kept the trailer for about a month, 2 weeks past what was originally agreed to. I made a phone call and received several phone calls, and I had approval to keep it the extended period of time. I returned it, paid in full, but received a letter a few days later from the region where I rented it from. They threatened a lawsuit and said that a police car was dispatched to the destination address to look for the trailer. I figured it was just a misplaced love letter, so I called them and told them we had approval to keep it longer, that it was returned and paid in full. Six months later though when I wish to rent another trailer, I am denied because my name is on a database list. They tell me that it is my responsibility to call their #'s and get their database corrected. So, I make the calls. It took hours, accusations and arguments to get it reversed. If the database would hold the accuser accountable such that I could have words with the accuser and get some light shed on their absence of evidence, then it might have been more productive and saved time. The lictors were turned against me for a day, and I had no way of talking to the civil authority in command of the database. I think the franchise store manager would have some form of financial responsibility if they rented it to someone who was on the list. Since they have my credit card, drivers license, and vehicle information, the lictor technically knows me better than whomever they are forced to trust via the database. My credit and reputation probably surpasses the person who made the database entry, but with fascism the desire is to keep it non-personal.

    Trust should be innocent until proven guilty, but lictors receive and trust a database that tells them who to not trust, and it tells them who to treat as guilty or suspect, although themselves they really have no evidence other than the database that they are to obey.
     
  11. Amergin

    Amergin New Member

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    Spiritual is a vague and undefined word. It is vastly overused. It means nothing. I am not ashamed of not being spiritual. Spirits are not real. There is no proof that spirits exist or that spiritualism is anything more than a 19th Century Cult movement and at the least superstition.

    I think that the word spiritual is like a claim of some kind of superiority. Spiritual people think they are better than the non-spiritual people. It is all bollocks. We are all animals and no animals have souls or spirits. And we are not all equal. Some are smarter. Some are faster. Some are bigger, Some are smaller. Some are prettier. Some can fly. The human bipedal ape is smarter than a bird, but only the bird can fly under its own power. The bipedal human ape can be moderately strong but very weak compared to the Mountain Gorilla. The bipedal human ape can run fast but nowhere close to the speed of a cheetah or pronghorn antelope.

    Among the 7 billion bipedal human apes in the world, some are smart and some are stupid. Some are strong and others are weak. Some are handsome while others are ugly. Some are fit and others are fat. There is no equality. What there is can only be an equality of basic rights, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

    I think it is a dark crime for humans to inflict painful experimentation on our fellow apes (chimps) and monkeys. It is also wrong to do that to any other animals (dogs, cats, rabits, mice.) We all share a common ancestor and that is what gives us equality of life while recognising inequality of specific talents and function.

    Amergin
     
  12. Manxboz

    Manxboz New Member

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    Ok, i shall try :D

    Maybe, no harm in it

    I am so sorry, I have gone against the establishment :p

    Two plus Two equals five, this is unheard of in my backwater :D
     

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