D
Diby
Guest
Why is it that a parent can force a child to go to church, and how do you feel about that
I didn't know that a parent could do it but it is bad
, it forces kids into a narrow minded view of religion and i would think that it wouldn't be healthy for that kid, im just glad that my parents didn't do that to me, because now beening older i have now formed my own opinions of certain denominations and churches.
, it forces kids into a narrow minded view of religion and i would think that it wouldn't be healthy for that kid, im just glad that my parents didn't do that to me, because now beening older i have now formed my own opinions of certain denominations and churches.
seattlegal
Mercuræn Buddhist
Parents carry the ultimate responsibility for raising their children, and should therefore have the authority to do so. Holding someone responsible for accomplishing a task, while taking away their authority to execute the actions necessary to accomplish that task, is a sure way to create large amounts of stress, and make sure that task will not be accomplished. If you take away parental authority, children will not get raised, and family stresses will increase. JMHO.
Awaiting_the_fifth
Where is my mind?
I think that parents certainly should give their children spiritual guidance, and in the case of Christians this would almost certainly mean taking children to church, but I also think it is important to teach children how to make up their own minds and decide for themselves.
I was 13 when I told my Catholic parents that I no longer believed in God and I did not want to go to Church (and it took some courage, believe me!). My mother laughed at me and they continued dragging me to Church every Sunday morning for another two years. That didnt help anyone.
I was 13 when I told my Catholic parents that I no longer believed in God and I did not want to go to Church (and it took some courage, believe me!). My mother laughed at me and they continued dragging me to Church every Sunday morning for another two years. That didnt help anyone.
Faithfulservant
Well-Known Member
"Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it" Proverbs 22:6.
I believe parents are responsible for their childrens spirituality.. I also believe that if we fail to do so we are held accountable before God.
My son, give me thine heart, and let thine eyes observe my ways" Proverbs 23:26.
I believe that we must pray for our children to have that relationship with God.. we must pray that they are lovers of the truth. I pray this for my children.
I believe parents are responsible for their childrens spirituality.. I also believe that if we fail to do so we are held accountable before God.
My son, give me thine heart, and let thine eyes observe my ways" Proverbs 23:26.
I believe that we must pray for our children to have that relationship with God.. we must pray that they are lovers of the truth. I pray this for my children.
Awaiting_the_fifth
Where is my mind?
Faithfulservant said:
Faithfulservant,
I wonder would you agree with me that if a child decides to follow a different path his/her parents should accept and support that decision?
Faithfulservant
Well-Known Member
loving the child despite their decisions yes.. supporting their decisions.. no. God loves us despite our decisions.. does He support each one that we make? I doubt it. The love I have for my children is unconditional and it would pain me greatly if they were to veer from the path that I have tried my best to raise them in. I would accept it and allow them to follow the path that they are on and pray daily that they hear the voice of God and return to His side. Do I have to support it? No. I wouldnt support my daughter turning to prostitution but I would love her regardless.. I wouldnt support my son if he was dealing drugs but would I love him regardless? yes. You may think the examples are extreme.. they are not much different to me.
Indeed, parents can teach, guide, influence positively as best they can or are able - but parents cannot control their children forever.
A parent who thinks *any* decision is right or wrong can only act on that, but always being a parent is a struggle of holding on and letting go, and at some point, no matter a parent's own perspective, we have to let go regardless, hoping that we have helped show our children how to make those decisions of right and wrong themselves.
As is often said, a parent doesn't have to love their child's choices, but that doesn't mean to not love the child.
A parent who thinks *any* decision is right or wrong can only act on that, but always being a parent is a struggle of holding on and letting go, and at some point, no matter a parent's own perspective, we have to let go regardless, hoping that we have helped show our children how to make those decisions of right and wrong themselves.
As is often said, a parent doesn't have to love their child's choices, but that doesn't mean to not love the child.
littlemissattitude
Creative Thinker
I think it is completely wrong for parents to force a child to go to church. Unlike something like going to the dentist (the example someone gave above) or going to school, spiritual matters are very personal and should not be forced on anyone, even a child.
This is not to say that children should not be exposed to spiritual experiences, or that parents don't have a right to express to their children what they believe. But children should not be propagandized, such as being told that one way of believing is "right" or "true" and that other ways of believing are "evil" or "wrong", or dragged to a particular church against their will. Things like what one believes and what religious insitution they may wish to participate in is for each individual to decide when they are of an age that they can make an informed decision.
This is not to say that children should not be exposed to spiritual experiences, or that parents don't have a right to express to their children what they believe. But children should not be propagandized, such as being told that one way of believing is "right" or "true" and that other ways of believing are "evil" or "wrong", or dragged to a particular church against their will. Things like what one believes and what religious insitution they may wish to participate in is for each individual to decide when they are of an age that they can make an informed decision.
littlemissattitude said:
yah when they are of age to make that decision. but until then... this does not seem to be about being of age but rather a child under the authority of there parents, which seems to be anyone under 17 is still considered a minor & parents are responsible for them. no intelligent parent is going to force there child to go to church after a certain age, no more than they can stop them from dropping out of school at age 16.
what age do you consider a child not a child?
so, without spiritual guidance from the parents church.....oh just forget it
i respect your opinion but i am glad you were not my parent. i like the JFK story. TAKE ME TO CHURCH MOM!
Faithfulservant
Well-Known Member
Sorry God.. that people think you are a form of propoganda and that people think dentists are more important than you are. I agree with Bandit.. thanks mom for making sure my soul doesnt have cavities.
littlemissattitude
Creative Thinker
You know, I don't mean to be argumentative, but I firmly believe that God wants people - including children - in church because they want to be there, not because someone is forcing them to be there. Certainly, you don't think we should go back to the bad old days, such as in some of the American colonies before independence, when the civil authorities enforced chruch attendance. I also don't believe that you have to be "in church" in order to know about and worship God.
Virtually all of the people I know personally who were forced to go to church as children, including my own mother, now choose not to go to church at all. I would say, therefore, that being forced to go had a negative rather than a positive effect.
And I did not say that God is a form of propaganda. I said that I don't think it is right for people - parents or anyone else - to tell anyone else, including children, that one concept of God is "right" and all the others are "wrong". That is something each individual has to get to personally. So, I will thank you to not twist my words to fit your agenda.
Virtually all of the people I know personally who were forced to go to church as children, including my own mother, now choose not to go to church at all. I would say, therefore, that being forced to go had a negative rather than a positive effect.
And I did not say that God is a form of propaganda. I said that I don't think it is right for people - parents or anyone else - to tell anyone else, including children, that one concept of God is "right" and all the others are "wrong". That is something each individual has to get to personally. So, I will thank you to not twist my words to fit your agenda.
lunamoth
Episcopalian
Hi All,
I very much agree in principle with Littlemissattitude that no one should be forced to do go to church or believe something against their will. I certainly know enough horror stories, as she related, about people who left the church because of a coercive atmosphere and too much pressure that had nothing to do with God, in my estimate.
But, having said that, I too am glad that my mother took me to church when I was little and laid that foundation for me, and most important continued long after I left home to keep modeling that God-centered life in her own humble and quiet way. When I stopped going to church, and later when I became a Baha'i, there were no scenes or rending of garments. There was no pressure to do things "the way I had been taught." In fact it seemed very much like I was expected to now work things out for myself, go my own way.
I usually did not like going to church when I was little, and especially in those tween and teen years. I was either bored or would rather have slept in or stayed home to do whatever I wanted. But now, looking back, I value it. I'm not sure that comparing it to the dentist is a good comparison, but perhaps more like going to school, which I also probably would have avoided quite a lot if given free choice on the matter.
And then, as someone else above pointed out, there is the practical consideration of what would one do with the kids if they did not go to church! I go to church and take my girls with me. One goes to the nursery and comes up for communion and the end of the service sometimes. She loves it. The other goes to the children's chapel, then into the "big church" for communion and the rest, then Sunday school. She complains at little at times (as she does about practically everything ), but she also has friends and I know that she also has fun. She, so far, likes learning about God and Christ and the traditions of our chruch. They are only 2 and five years old. When they are fifteen I hope that they continue to find meaning in church, but if not they will be old enough then to make their own choices. Until then I have a responsibility as a parent to raise them with a foundation of values and beliefs that are the center for our family, and hopefully will carry them into their own happy families when the time comes.
The more important things than going to church are how we lead lives of example for our children at home, how we center our lives as shown by our actions and our love, not by our words or what we say we believe. In addition to how we adhere to our traditions it is very important to not belittle or tear down other people's beliefs. Showing repsect for all religions and cultures at home is so important for raising kids who will have a chance at peace.
If they come home some day and tell me they want to be a Muslim or a Buddhist or a Baha'i, I'll say Great! Because with a foundation in Love and God and the Spirit I trust that they will find their way no matter how their own path winds.
More words than I meant to type. Oh well. There it is.
peace,
lunamoth
I very much agree in principle with Littlemissattitude that no one should be forced to do go to church or believe something against their will. I certainly know enough horror stories, as she related, about people who left the church because of a coercive atmosphere and too much pressure that had nothing to do with God, in my estimate.
But, having said that, I too am glad that my mother took me to church when I was little and laid that foundation for me, and most important continued long after I left home to keep modeling that God-centered life in her own humble and quiet way. When I stopped going to church, and later when I became a Baha'i, there were no scenes or rending of garments. There was no pressure to do things "the way I had been taught." In fact it seemed very much like I was expected to now work things out for myself, go my own way.
I usually did not like going to church when I was little, and especially in those tween and teen years. I was either bored or would rather have slept in or stayed home to do whatever I wanted. But now, looking back, I value it. I'm not sure that comparing it to the dentist is a good comparison, but perhaps more like going to school, which I also probably would have avoided quite a lot if given free choice on the matter.
And then, as someone else above pointed out, there is the practical consideration of what would one do with the kids if they did not go to church! I go to church and take my girls with me. One goes to the nursery and comes up for communion and the end of the service sometimes. She loves it. The other goes to the children's chapel, then into the "big church" for communion and the rest, then Sunday school. She complains at little at times (as she does about practically everything
), but she also has friends and I know that she also has fun. She, so far, likes learning about God and Christ and the traditions of our chruch. They are only 2 and five years old. When they are fifteen I hope that they continue to find meaning in church, but if not they will be old enough then to make their own choices. Until then I have a responsibility as a parent to raise them with a foundation of values and beliefs that are the center for our family, and hopefully will carry them into their own happy families when the time comes.The more important things than going to church are how we lead lives of example for our children at home, how we center our lives as shown by our actions and our love, not by our words or what we say we believe. In addition to how we adhere to our traditions it is very important to not belittle or tear down other people's beliefs. Showing repsect for all religions and cultures at home is so important for raising kids who will have a chance at peace.
If they come home some day and tell me they want to be a Muslim or a Buddhist or a Baha'i, I'll say Great! Because with a foundation in Love and God and the Spirit I trust that they will find their way no matter how their own path winds.
More words than I meant to type. Oh well. There it is.
peace,
lunamoth
arthra
Baha'i
Passing on core values and spiritual life...
In my family I was expected to be active in the Church I grew up in... My grandfather had a role in this.. and it did provide a spiritual life for awhile but as i got older I had the intention to prove more to myself what was best for me and so began a long odyssey of experimenting and searching..
In my mid-twenties I became a Baha'i and later married another Baha'i. As the children grew older I would sometimes tell them some of the Bible stories I recalled from my childhood and would explain the teachings of Jesus about returning good for evil, etc.
I think it's very important for the parent to pass on the core values and spiritual life to their children.
I also made it my business to see that my children were exposed to as many religions in our area as possible. So we visited churches, temples, mosques and synagogue.
In our Faith the child at fifteen years of age or so decides whether they want to be a Baha'i through what's called their own indendent investigation. If they decide then they continue as Baha'is, if not they don't.
- Art
In my family I was expected to be active in the Church I grew up in... My grandfather had a role in this.. and it did provide a spiritual life for awhile but as i got older I had the intention to prove more to myself what was best for me and so began a long odyssey of experimenting and searching..
In my mid-twenties I became a Baha'i and later married another Baha'i. As the children grew older I would sometimes tell them some of the Bible stories I recalled from my childhood and would explain the teachings of Jesus about returning good for evil, etc.
I think it's very important for the parent to pass on the core values and spiritual life to their children.
I also made it my business to see that my children were exposed to as many religions in our area as possible. So we visited churches, temples, mosques and synagogue.
In our Faith the child at fifteen years of age or so decides whether they want to be a Baha'i through what's called their own indendent investigation. If they decide then they continue as Baha'is, if not they don't.
- Art
Re: Passing on core values and spiritual life...
When I was in the scouts, we were supposed to go to the nearby church for Sunday service and rest our flag at the end of it. Many of us found it a dry and boring experience, and it properly didn't do much to encourage us to become Christians.
Yesterday we went to Dunblane Cathedral. It's a relatively small and plain cathedral in comparison to others I've been to. It was lovingly restored from a ruin just over a 100 years ago. It also houses a very simple stone. The stone commemorates the lives of 14 children, shot dead in the village nursery by a gunman in 1996.
I took the family to the cathedral, and we went around, explored, talk about the stone, and played in the ornate wooden benches for the choir. Then we went out for a walk by the small wooded river that runs underneath the cathedral.
When I was in the scouts, we were supposed to go to the nearby church for Sunday service and rest our flag at the end of it. Many of us found it a dry and boring experience, and it properly didn't do much to encourage us to become Christians.
Yesterday we went to Dunblane Cathedral. It's a relatively small and plain cathedral in comparison to others I've been to. It was lovingly restored from a ruin just over a 100 years ago. It also houses a very simple stone. The stone commemorates the lives of 14 children, shot dead in the village nursery by a gunman in 1996.
I took the family to the cathedral, and we went around, explored, talk about the stone, and played in the ornate wooden benches for the choir. Then we went out for a walk by the small wooded river that runs underneath the cathedral.
seattlegal
Mercuræn Buddhist
Why get the civil authorities involved in church attendance at all? By taking the authority away from the parents, the civil authorities are taking the authority for themselves. Wouldn't that constitute a violation of the separation of Church and State?littlemissattitude said:
littlemissattitude
Creative Thinker
I did not say that the civil authorities should get involved in church attendance. I was merely stating the historical fact that in some of the American colonies before the American Revolution (that was before the Bill of Rights and separation of church and state), the civil authorities did in fact enforce church attendance. I don't think that is a good idea, any more than I think it is a good idea for parents to force their children to take part in something like a particular religion, which essentially an act of individual conscience.
Again, I repeat, I think it is a wonderful thing for parents to explain what they believe to their children, and to expose them to various spiritual practices and knowledge. I don't think it is a good thing to force them to participate in a particular kind of practice that they do not believe in and so do not want to participate in.
Now, I take the point that when children are small, if the parent or parents attend church or synagogue or mosque, it is inevitable that the children accompany them. That is fine. But I have a huge problem with parents - and I know people who have gone through this - who force their older children to worship in the same way the parents do, with punishments attached if they do not do so. For example, they have privileges taken away or are not allowed to do things with their friends if they do not attend and participate in the parents' worship. Or they will berate the the older child and threaten them with things like eternal damnation if they do not conform to the parents' beliefs. As far as I'm concerned, such actions are just wrong. You can't force someone to believe something that they don't believe. Making them go through the motions anyway is a violation, I believe, of any individual's basic human rights.
Again, I repeat, I think it is a wonderful thing for parents to explain what they believe to their children, and to expose them to various spiritual practices and knowledge. I don't think it is a good thing to force them to participate in a particular kind of practice that they do not believe in and so do not want to participate in.
Now, I take the point that when children are small, if the parent or parents attend church or synagogue or mosque, it is inevitable that the children accompany them. That is fine. But I have a huge problem with parents - and I know people who have gone through this - who force their older children to worship in the same way the parents do, with punishments attached if they do not do so. For example, they have privileges taken away or are not allowed to do things with their friends if they do not attend and participate in the parents' worship. Or they will berate the the older child and threaten them with things like eternal damnation if they do not conform to the parents' beliefs. As far as I'm concerned, such actions are just wrong. You can't force someone to believe something that they don't believe. Making them go through the motions anyway is a violation, I believe, of any individual's basic human rights.