the Bible from a Jehovah's Witness perspective

Status
Not open for further replies.

tommy

Well-Known Member
Messages
129
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
North Pole
Quahom1 said:
Alright. Please show me 1914, in Daniel. Please, just show me. I really want to see 1914 as Biblical...
OK, I did a little research, here you go...
VERIFYING​
THE DATE 1914

16 Since autumn of 1914 was due to mark the end of the Gentile Times, what, according to God’s will, was then due to take place? This, namely, the stoppage of the trampling of the Gentile nations on what was symbolized by the ancient Davidic city of Jerusalem. The kingdom of Jehovah God by means of his anointed one of the royal line of David was no longer to be trampled on in contempt by the Gentile nations. The beginning of those Gentile Times was in 607 B.C.E. and was marked by the ruining of the kingdom of God. In opposite fashion, the end of the Gentile Times in 1914 C.E. was to be marked by the revival, the rebirth, of God’s kingdom in the hands of his anointed one or Messiah, Christ. It was the time marked for the coming of the Anointed One with the "legal right" to the crown and the time for Jehovah God to give it to him. This Messianic kingdom of God would then be a divine government for the Gentile nations to reckon with henceforth. Never would they be able to trample on it victoriously, even though they kept up their selfish endeavors to hold on to the sovereignty of all parts of the earth. Why so?
17 It was because the Messianic kingdom of God that was due to be born in 1914 is a heavenly government. It is beyond the reach of the Gentile governments and their spaceships and rockets. The earthly Jerusalem has nothing to do with it. Since Jesus Christ was put to death on Calvary outside the walls of Jerusalem in the year 33 C.E., that city has no connection with God’s Messianic kingdom.
18 Five days before his death Jesus rode into Jerusalem accompanied by a great crowd of joyful people. He offered himself to Jerusalem as her king. (Zech. 9:9; Matt. 21:1-11) But the ruling factors of Jerusalem rejected him. No earthly kingdom was given him. However, he had not preached an earthly kingdom. He preached the good news of God’s Messianic kingdom, and he and his disciples cried out: "The kingdom of the heavens has drawn near." (Matt. 4:17; 10:1-7) The long-foretold Messianic kingdom was to be a heavenly kingdom, a government whose seat was to be in what the Holy Bible symbolically calls "a city of the living God, heavenly Jerusalem." (Heb. 12:22) With a view to the setting up of the heavenly Messianic kingdom in 1914, Jehovah God raised his Son Jesus Christ from death on the third day and had him ascend back to heaven forty days later.—Acts 1:1-12.
19 However, Jesus’ ascension to heaven and his reappearance in the heavenly presence of Jehovah God did not bring the Gentile Times to an end, but God kept to His time schedule, looking forward to 1914. Jesus Christ had to wait, just as the inspired Bible writer of Hebrews 10:12, 13 tells us, saying: "This man offered one sacrifice for sins perpetually and sat down at the right hand of God, from then on awaiting until his enemies should be placed as a stool for his feet." This is a reference to Psalm 110:1, 2, where King David said prophetically concerning the coming Messiah or Christ: "The utterance of Jehovah to my Lord is: ‘Sit at my right hand until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.’ The rod of your strength Jehovah will send out of Zion, saying: ‘Go subduing in the midst of your enemies.’"
20 God’s appointed time for the Lord Jesus Christ to start doing this was at the end of the Gentile Times in 1914, and it was until that momentous date that he was awaiting while seated at God’s right hand on the heavenly throne. That date 1914 was the time for the tables to be turned, the time for him as installed king to go subduing in the midst of his enemies rather than for the Gentiles to continue trampling on God’s Messianic kingdom.
21 Can there be any question that the heavenly kingdom of God by means of his anointed one or Messiah, Christ, was born and came to power at the end of the Gentile Times in early autumn of 1914? No! It is true that we who were then living on earth did not hear the announcement resounding throughout the heavens: "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will rule as king forever and ever." (Rev. 11:15) But we do remember seeing and hearing something here at the earth. What? The declaration of war by nation against nation; the tramping of millions of men marching to war; the total mobilization of nations for all-out war; the clanking of heavy mechanized firing equipment lumbering off to the front; the pious voices of priests and preachers of all denominations on both sides of the battle lines praying God’s blessing upon the soldiers on their side face to face with soldiers of the same religious faith on the enemy side; the religious chaplains acting as cheerleaders to the fighters; the contagion of war spreading, with already nine nations and globe encircling empires locked in war by October 1, 1914. We did hear and see this, from 1914 onward.
22 That first world war was not started by Jesus Christ, the newly enthroned King in heaven. Yet, was this not exactly what he had foretold three days before his death outside Jerusalem, saying: "Nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another. All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress"? Now, what was the question in answer to which Jesus Christ said this prophecy? This question of his apostles: "When will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence and of the conclusion of the system of things?" (Matt. 24:3, 7, 8) Even more so than any count of time, those events of 1914 and subsequent years marked that year as beginning the "conclusion of the system of things," inasmuch as the Gentile Times ended in autumn of that year. All this was visible and audible evidence that Jesus Christ had come into his heavenly kingdom, that he was present in his Messianic kingdom, that the realization of the vision seen by the prophet Daniel had taken place in the heavens:
23 "See there! with the clouds of the heavens someone like a son of man happened to be coming; and to the Ancient of Days he gained access, and they brought him up close even before that One. And to him there were given rulership and dignity and kingdom, that the peoples, national groups and languages should all serve even him. His rulership is an indefinitely lasting rulership that will not pass away, and his kingdom one that will not be brought to ruin."—Dan. 7:13, 14.
24 Decades in advance searching Bible students had pointed forward to 1914 as the Biblically marked date. But when the accuracy of the time was confirmed by world events fulfilling Bible prophecy, our conviction too of what had taken place in the invisible heavens became overwhelming, and we were impelled to join with God’s faithful worshipers up in heaven in saying: "We thank you, Jehovah God, the Almighty, the one who is and who was, because you have taken your great power and begun ruling as king. But the nations became wrathful, and your own wrath came, and the appointed time for the dead to be judged, and to give their reward to your slaves the prophets and to the holy ones and to those fearing your name, the small and the great, and to bring to ruin those ruining the earth."—Rev. 11:16-18.​
25 Yes, at the end of the Gentile Times for the Gentile domination of the earth, Jehovah God the Almighty took to himself his great power to reign once again as King of all the realm of creation, including our earth. Having patiently permitted the Gentile domination of mankind for 2,520 years since 607 B.C.E., Jehovah God enthroned his Son, the Messianic Heir of King David, and turned over to this One with the "legal right" the domination of all the earth. This Messianic King, ruling in the "heavenly Jerusalem," will bring to ruin all the Gentiles who are ruining the earth, but his own God-given kingdom will never be brought to ruin.
 

BlaznFattyz

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,589
Reaction score
0
Points
36
Charles Russell, after being exposed to the teachings of William Miller, founded his own organization - the Jehovah's Witnesses. In 1914 Russell predicted the return of Jesus Christ.

jw propaganda is based on numerological predictions and russelite calculations, and their continuous throwing of dice so they get snake-eyes on a realized predicition which would be their justification of being alleged prophets.

Here are other calculated dates that the Watchtower Society predicted. 1975 was computed as the 6000th anniversary of the creation of Adam in the Garden of Eden in 4026 BCE. They interpreted Psalms 90:10 as defining the length of a generation to be 80 years. Since 1914 plus 80 equals 1994, they predicted Armageddon would occur around that year. The latest estimate was 6000 years after the creation of Eve, for which no date can be determined with any accuracy.

a preoccupation of dates, numbers, watchtower doctrine, and rationalizing past false predictions away is a sad distraction from the lord and a bad case of denial.
 

Quahom1

What was the question?
Messages
9,906
Reaction score
5
Points
36
Location
Maryland
tommy said:
Hey Josh:

OK, the Witnesses won't give some street person five bucks to go get smashed on some bad habit they can help with. But wouldn't you admit that you see them before 6:00 am in a laundry mat or bus stop trying to help someone spiritually.

I don't agree with the statement that they consider the needy beneath them as some of these lower income people have come into the truth and attend fellowship meetings.

I believe what the Witnesses teach about the truth about the Bible (world empire of false religion, new Heaven and new earth). I give to the poor and even send in $20 a month supporting a poor child's food in Central America and she sends me thank you letters and I really don't know what you mean.

NO. I give, and let God judge. After the belly is full, then I might talk about salvation. I guess that is the difference between thee and me...:eek:
 

Quahom1

What was the question?
Messages
9,906
Reaction score
5
Points
36
Location
Maryland
tommy said:
OK, I did a little research, here you go...



I could have done that...and at least I go looking instead of taking a "Catholic writ" (or papal bull) as example.

If I wanted dogma, I could have looked it up myself...

:eek:

Man that was not cool.

v/r
Q
 

Quahom1

What was the question?
Messages
9,906
Reaction score
5
Points
36
Location
Maryland
tommy said:
OK, I did a little research, here you go...

VERIFYING​
THE DATE 1914

16 Since autumn of 1914 was due to mark the end of the Gentile Times, what, according to God’s will, was then due to take place? This, namely, the stoppage of the trampling of the Gentile nations on what was symbolized by the ancient Davidic city of Jerusalem. The kingdom of Jehovah God by means of his anointed one of the royal line of David was no longer to be trampled on in contempt by the Gentile nations. The beginning of those Gentile Times was in 607 B.C.E. and was marked by the ruining of the kingdom of God. In opposite fashion, the end of the Gentile Times in 1914 C.E. was to be marked by the revival, the rebirth, of God’s kingdom in the hands of his anointed one or Messiah, Christ. It was the time marked for the coming of the Anointed One with the "legal right" to the crown and the time for Jehovah God to give it to him. This Messianic kingdom of God would then be a divine government for the Gentile nations to reckon with henceforth. Never would they be able to trample on it victoriously, even though they kept up their selfish endeavors to hold on to the sovereignty of all parts of the earth. Why so?​
17 It was because the Messianic kingdom of God that was due to be born in 1914 is a heavenly government. It is beyond the reach of the Gentile governments and their spaceships and rockets. The earthly Jerusalem has nothing to do with it. Since Jesus Christ was put to death on Calvary outside the walls of Jerusalem in the year 33 C.E., that city has no connection with God’s Messianic kingdom.
18 Five days before his death Jesus rode into Jerusalem accompanied by a great crowd of joyful people. He offered himself to Jerusalem as her king. (Zech. 9:9; Matt. 21:1-11) But the ruling factors of Jerusalem rejected him. No earthly kingdom was given him. However, he had not preached an earthly kingdom. He preached the good news of God’s Messianic kingdom, and he and his disciples cried out: "The kingdom of the heavens has drawn near." (Matt. 4:17; 10:1-7) The long-foretold Messianic kingdom was to be a heavenly kingdom, a government whose seat was to be in what the Holy Bible symbolically calls "a city of the living God, heavenly Jerusalem." (Heb. 12:22) With a view to the setting up of the heavenly Messianic kingdom in 1914, Jehovah God raised his Son Jesus Christ from death on the third day and had him ascend back to heaven forty days later.—Acts 1:1-12.
19 However, Jesus’ ascension to heaven and his reappearance in the heavenly presence of Jehovah God did not bring the Gentile Times to an end, but God kept to His time schedule, looking forward to 1914. Jesus Christ had to wait, just as the inspired Bible writer of Hebrews 10:12, 13 tells us, saying: "This man offered one sacrifice for sins perpetually and sat down at the right hand of God, from then on awaiting until his enemies should be placed as a stool for his feet." This is a reference to Psalm 110:1, 2, where King David said prophetically concerning the coming Messiah or Christ: "The utterance of Jehovah to my Lord is: ‘Sit at my right hand until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.’ The rod of your strength Jehovah will send out of Zion, saying: ‘Go subduing in the midst of your enemies.’"
20 God’s appointed time for the Lord Jesus Christ to start doing this was at the end of the Gentile Times in 1914, and it was until that momentous date that he was awaiting while seated at God’s right hand on the heavenly throne. That date 1914 was the time for the tables to be turned, the time for him as installed king to go subduing in the midst of his enemies rather than for the Gentiles to continue trampling on God’s Messianic kingdom.
21 Can there be any question that the heavenly kingdom of God by means of his anointed one or Messiah, Christ, was born and came to power at the end of the Gentile Times in early autumn of 1914? No! It is true that we who were then living on earth did not hear the announcement resounding throughout the heavens: "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will rule as king forever and ever." (Rev. 11:15) But we do remember seeing and hearing something here at the earth. What? The declaration of war by nation against nation; the tramping of millions of men marching to war; the total mobilization of nations for all-out war; the clanking of heavy mechanized firing equipment lumbering off to the front; the pious voices of priests and preachers of all denominations on both sides of the battle lines praying God’s blessing upon the soldiers on their side face to face with soldiers of the same religious faith on the enemy side; the religious chaplains acting as cheerleaders to the fighters; the contagion of war spreading, with already nine nations and globe encircling empires locked in war by October 1, 1914. We did hear and see this, from 1914 onward.
22 That first world war was not started by Jesus Christ, the newly enthroned King in heaven. Yet, was this not exactly what he had foretold three days before his death outside Jerusalem, saying: "Nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another. All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress"? Now, what was the question in answer to which Jesus Christ said this prophecy? This question of his apostles: "When will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence and of the conclusion of the system of things?" (Matt. 24:3, 7, 8) Even more so than any count of time, those events of 1914 and subsequent years marked that year as beginning the "conclusion of the system of things," inasmuch as the Gentile Times ended in autumn of that year. All this was visible and audible evidence that Jesus Christ had come into his heavenly kingdom, that he was present in his Messianic kingdom, that the realization of the vision seen by the prophet Daniel had taken place in the heavens:
23 "See there! with the clouds of the heavens someone like a son of man happened to be coming; and to the Ancient of Days he gained access, and they brought him up close even before that One. And to him there were given rulership and dignity and kingdom, that the peoples, national groups and languages should all serve even him. His rulership is an indefinitely lasting rulership that will not pass away, and his kingdom one that will not be brought to ruin."—Dan. 7:13, 14.
24 Decades in advance searching Bible students had pointed forward to 1914 as the Biblically marked date. But when the accuracy of the time was confirmed by world events fulfilling Bible prophecy, our conviction too of what had taken place in the invisible heavens became overwhelming, and we were impelled to join with God’s faithful worshipers up in heaven in saying: "We thank you, Jehovah God, the Almighty, the one who is and who was, because you have taken your great power and begun ruling as king. But the nations became wrathful, and your own wrath came, and the appointed time for the dead to be judged, and to give their reward to your slaves the prophets and to the holy ones and to those fearing your name, the small and the great, and to bring to ruin those ruining the earth."—Rev. 11:16-18.
25 Yes, at the end of the Gentile Times for the Gentile domination of the earth, Jehovah God the Almighty took to himself his great power to reign once again as King of all the realm of creation, including our earth. Having patiently permitted the Gentile domination of mankind for 2,520 years since 607 B.C.E., Jehovah God enthroned his Son, the Messianic Heir of King David, and turned over to this One with the "legal right" the domination of all the earth. This Messianic King, ruling in the "heavenly Jerusalem," will bring to ruin all the Gentiles who are ruining the earth, but his own God-given kingdom will never be brought to ruin.

Where in the Bible is "1914"? Answer the simple question, please.
 

tommy

Well-Known Member
Messages
129
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
North Pole
Quahom1 said:
Where in the Bible is "1914"? Answer the simple question, please.
It is there, you have to do the math. Revelation 12:6, 14 indicates that three and a half times equaly a thousand two hundred and sixty days "seven times" would therefore last twice as long or 2,520 days.

Numbers 14:34 and Ezekiel 4:6 speak of a day as a year. Therefore if you start at 607 bce when Jerusalem fell and count up 2,520 days it does take you to 1914. If you count up and do not replace a day for a year there were no significant events, so therefore this does tie to 1914. I put the other stuff about 1914 up since it sounded like you really wanted info on it and the title of this thread is the Jehovah's Witness perspective. Take Care, tommy
 

mee

Interfaith Forums
Messages
6,363
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Jehovah’s Witnesses firmly believe, on the basis of the Bible, that God’s Kingdom is already ruling in the heavens and that it is up to us to show whether we want to continue to live on earth under God’s righteous government or not.
Two lines of evidence point to that year: (1) Bible chronology and (2) the events since 1914 in fulfillment of prophecy. but it seems that many do not want to recognize Jesus kingship , some do, some refuse,

after telling of events that would follow the establishment of the Kingdom in the hands of Jesus Christ in 1914, Revelation 12:12 adds: "Be glad, you heavens and you who reside in them! Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing he has a short period of time." yes satan , does not want people to recognize Jesus kingship in the heavens Daniel 7;13-14 Daniel 2;44 and he is doing his best to distract people from that kingship , but the preaching about the established heavenly kingdom will be made known .

(Mark 13:10) Also, in all the nations the good news has to be preached first.
(Revelation 14:6) And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, and he had everlasting good news to declare as glad tidings to those who dwell on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and tongue and people.
(Matthew 24:14) And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come................... there is no stopping bible prophecy ,it always comes true. and many people fight against it . many people say that they want peace, but when it comes down to it ,they refuse to recognize the prince of peace.Isaiah 9;6-7
 

Quahom1

What was the question?
Messages
9,906
Reaction score
5
Points
36
Location
Maryland
tommy said:
It is there, you have to do the math. Revelation 12:6, 14 indicates that three and a half times equaly a thousand two hundred and sixty days "seven times" would therefore last twice as long or 2,520 days.

Numbers 14:34 and Ezekiel 4:6 speak of a day as a year. Therefore if you start at 607 bce when Jerusalem fell and count up 2,520 days it does take you to 1914. If you count up and do not replace a day for a year there were no significant events, so therefore this does tie to 1914. I put the other stuff about 1914 up since it sounded like you really wanted info on it and the title of this thread is the Jehovah's Witness perspective. Take Care, tommy

Ok, thanks. Now I understand where you get 1914 from.

v/r

Q
 

mee

Interfaith Forums
Messages
6,363
Reaction score
0
Points
0
The many events in fulfillment of Bible prophecy since 1914 show that very soon God’s heavenly Kingdom will ‘crush and put an end to all other governments.’ And God wants this fact publicized, as the following important part of the sign shows: "This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come." (Matthew 24:14) Millions of Jehovah’s Witnesses, a worldwide brotherhood, are now fulfilling this prophecy.
 

mee

Interfaith Forums
Messages
6,363
Reaction score
0
Points
0
With so many fulfilled prophecies already to its credit, the Bible has indeed established itself as the book "inspired of God." (2 Timothy 3:16) Accept it, then, "not as the word of men, but, just as it truthfully is, as the word of God." (1 Thessalonians 2:13) Also, since its Author, Jehovah God, is "the One telling from the beginning the finale," you can have complete confidence in prophecies whose fulfillments are yet future. (Isaiah 46:10) And what is to come is truly marvelous.
 

Dor

Bible Thumper
Messages
1,139
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
little town called Dallas, Tx
tommy said:
It is there, you have to do the math. Revelation 12:6, 14 indicates that three and a half times equaly a thousand two hundred and sixty days "seven times" would therefore last twice as long or 2,520 days.

Numbers 14:34 and Ezekiel 4:6 speak of a day as a year. Therefore if you start at 607 bce when Jerusalem fell and count up 2,520 days it does take you to 1914. If you count up and do not replace a day for a year there were no significant events, so therefore this does tie to 1914. I put the other stuff about 1914 up since it sounded like you really wanted info on it and the title of this thread is the Jehovah's Witness perspective. Take Care, tommy

Tommy where do you come up with 607 as when Jerusalem fell? I know the Watchtower states it but most sources do not they time the Babylonian razzing of Jerusalem as 586 or 587.

Encyclopedia.com, the Babylonian captivity, "the period from the fall of Jerusalem (586 B.C.) to the reconstruction in Palestine of a new Jewish state (after 538 B.C.)."

"...Nebuchadnezzar promptly invaded his unhappy country and besieged Jerusalem for a year and a half. In 587 Jerusalem fell and numbers of its inhabitants were carried away captive to Babylonia..." (Unger, Merrill, F., Unger's Bible Dictionary, Moody Press, Chicago, 1966, page 782).

"586, Jerusalem destroyed and burned (Jer. 52:13f.); people taken captive (52:28-30). (The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, Eerdmans, Grand Rapids, Michigan, 1982, page 1016)

"You will recall that the Babylonians, under Nebuchadnezzar, after twice laying siege to Jerusalem, finally captured it in 586 B.C.E. Nebuchadnezzar's army then pillaged the city, destroying the Temple and sending the inhabitants off to exile in Babylonia.("Biblical Archaeological Review, Biblical Archaelogical Review).
 

FLOWERGIRL

Well-Known Member
Messages
45
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Hi everyone I'm new here. Just a quick question for anyone who may know something about the NWT. Why is this bible only used by Jehovah's witnesses?
 

BlaznFattyz

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,589
Reaction score
0
Points
36
FLOWERGIRL said:
Hi everyone I'm new here. Just a quick question for anyone who may know something about the NWT. Why is this bible only used by Jehovah's witnesses?
that is the watchtower organizations own intepretation of biblical scripture. mainstream christianity does not use it because it denies the diety of christ being god, pre-existing and co-exisiting with god the father as the word, before coming as the messiah, the begotten son.
 

mee

Interfaith Forums
Messages
6,363
Reaction score
0
Points
0
FLOWERGIRL said:
Hi everyone I'm new here. Just a quick question for anyone who may know something about the NWT. Why is this bible only used by Jehovah's witnesses?
i think it is because many people are misled to believe that it is a bad translation they believe what their religous leaders tell them ,and then they miss out on reading a very good translation. but many people such as me , and nearly seven million others worldwide have remained openminded and not been misled by others.New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures
 

mee

Interfaith Forums
Messages
6,363
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Dor said:
Tommy where do you come up with 607 as when Jerusalem fell? I know the Watchtower states it but most sources do not they time the Babylonian razzing of Jerusalem as 586 or 587.
quote] many people rely on other sources but JW rely on the bible .
Reliable Bible chronology leads to great understanding
Finally, by early October of 607 B.C.E. the last vestige of Jewish sovereignty was gone.
the year in which the Jews returned from captivity; that is, it took place by early October of 607 B.C.E.
the counting of the "seven times" began After Zedekiah, the last king in the typical Kingdom of God, was removed from the throne in Jerusalem by the Babylonians. (Ezek. 21:25-27)
By that time the Jewish governor, Gedaliah, who had been left in charge by the Babylonians, had been assassinated, and the remaining Jews had fled to Egypt. (Jeremiah, chapters 40-43)
 

kenod

"to live is Christ"
Messages
307
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Australia
mee said:
many people rely on other sources but JW rely on the bible .
Reliable Bible chronology leads to great understanding
Finally, by early October of 607 B.C.E. the last vestige of Jewish sovereignty was gone.
the year in which the Jews returned from captivity; that is, it took place by early October of 607 B.C.E.
the counting of the "seven times" began After Zedekiah, the last king in the typical Kingdom of God, was removed from the throne in Jerusalem by the Babylonians. (Ezek. 21:25-27)
By that time the Jewish governor, Gedaliah, who had been left in charge by the Babylonians, had been assassinated, and the remaining Jews had fled to Egypt. (Jeremiah, chapters 40-43)

Do you take into account that our present calendar is out by several years ... it is very likely that 2520 years from 607BC were up in 1910 not 1914.
 

Dor

Bible Thumper
Messages
1,139
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
little town called Dallas, Tx
mee said:
i think it is because many people are misled to believe that it is a bad translation they believe what their religous leaders tell them ,and then they miss out on reading a very good translation.

WHAT TRUE SCHOLARS HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THE WATCHTOWER'S "TRANSLATION"

Dr. J. A. Mantey (who is quoted on pages 1158-1159 of the Watchtower's own Kingdom Interlinear Translation): "A shocking mistranslation. Obsolete and incorrect. It is neither scholarly nor reasonable to translate John 1:1, The Word was a god."

Dr. Bruce M. Metzger of Princeton (Professor of New Testament Language and Literature): "A frightful mistranslation." "Erroneous" and pernicious" "reprehensible" "If the Jehovah's Witnesses take this translation seriously, they are polytheists."

Dr. Samuel J. Mikolaskl of Zurich, Switzerland:
"This anarthrous (used without the article) construction does not mean what the indefinite article 'a' means in English. It is monstrous to translate the phrase, the Word was a god."

Dr. Paul L. Kaufman of Portland, Oregon: "The Jehovah's Witnesses people evidence an abysmal ignorance of the basic tenets at Greek grammar In their mistranslation of John 1:1."

Dr. Charles L. Feinberg of La Mirada, California: "I can assure you that the rendering which the Jehovah's Witnesses give John 1:1 is not held by any reputable Greek scholar."

Dr. James L. Boyer of Winona Lake, Indiana: "I have never heard of, or read of any Greek Scholar who would agree to the interpretation of this verse insisted upon by the Jehovah's Witnesses... I have never encountered one of them who had any knowledge of the Greek language."

Dr. Walter A. Martin (who does not teach Greek but has studied the language): "The translation, 'a god' instead of 'God', is erroneous and unsupported by any good Greek scholarship, ancient or contemporary and is a translation rejected by all recognized scholars of the Greek language many of whom are not even Christians, and cannot fairly be said to be biased in favor of the orthodox contention."

Dr. Eugene A. Nida, head of Translations Department, American Bible Society: "With regard to John 1:1, there is of course a complication simply because the New World Translation was apparently done by persons who did not take seriously the syntax of the Greek." [Responsible for the Good News Bible--The committee worked under him.]

Dr. B. F. Westcott (whose Greek text--not the English part--is used in the Kingdom Interlinear Translation): "The predicate (God) stands emphatically first, as in iv.24. It is necessarily without the article.... No idea of inferiority of nature is suggested by the form of expression, which affirms the true deity of the Word. ...In the third clause 'the Word' is declared to be 'God.' and so included in the unity of the Godhead."

Dr. J. J. Griesbach (whose Greek text--not the English part--is used in the Emphatic Diaglott): "So numerous and clear are the arguments and testimonies of Scriptures in favor of the true Deity of Christ, that I can hardly imagine how, upon the admission of the Divine authority of Scripture, and with regard to fair rules of interpretation, this doctrine can by any man be called in doubt. Especially the passage, John 1:1-3, is so clear and so superior to all exception, that by no daring efforts of either commentators or critics can it be snatched out of the hands of the defenders of the truth."

Dr. William Barclay of the University of Glasgow, Scotland: "The deliberate distortion of truth by this sect is seen in their New testament translations. John 1:1 is translated: '. . . the Word was a god,' a translation which is grammatically impossible.... it is abundantly clear that a sect which can translate the New Testament like that is intellectually dishonest."
Dr. F. F. Bruce of the University of Manchester, England: "Much is made by Arian amateur grammarians of the omission of the definite article with 'God' in the phrase 'And the Word was God.' Such an omission is common with nouns in a predicative construction--'a god' would be totally indefensible."
[Barclay and Bruce are generally regarded as Great Britain's leading Greek scholars. Both have New Testament translations in print!]

Dr. Ernest C. Colwell of the University of Chicago: "A definite predicate nominative has the article when it follows the verb; it does not have the article when it precedes the verb.. this statement cannot be regarded as strange in the prologue of the gospel which reaches its climax in the confession of Thomas. 'My Lord and my God.'--John 20:28."

Dr. J. Johnson of California State University, Long Beach: "No justification whatsoever for translating theos en ho logos as 'the Word was a god.' There is no syntactical parallel to Acts 28:6 where there is a statement in indirect discourse; John 1:1 is direct. ...I am neither a Christian nor a Trinitarian."
 

FLOWERGIRL

Well-Known Member
Messages
45
Reaction score
0
Points
0
BlaznFattyz said:
that is the watchtower organizations own intepretation of biblical scripture. mainstream christianity does not use it because it denies the diety of christ being god, pre-existing and co-exisiting with god the father as the word, before coming as the messiah, the begotten son.

Thank you for your reply.

I take it you are not a Jehovah's witness?
 

FLOWERGIRL

Well-Known Member
Messages
45
Reaction score
0
Points
0
mee said:
i think it is because many people are misled to believe that it is a bad translation they believe what their religous leaders tell them ,and then they miss out on reading a very good translation. but many people such as me , and nearly seven million others worldwide have remained openminded and not been misled by others.

Thank you also for your reply.

I agree that many people believe what their religious leaders tell them about many things. Saying this, do you not also believe what your religious leaders tell you?

Just believing in everything our leaders tell us without checking it out for ourselves is rather unwise of us wouldn't you agree?

Do you check everything out for yourself about things your religious leaders tell you? I believe you will answer yes to this question. So do you not believe that others may also checkout that which they are being taught? Surely not everyone is so blind as to just go long and believe everything they are told by their leaders. Personally I don't believe they are.

What evidence does the NWT accusers have?

Thanks again.
 

FLOWERGIRL

Well-Known Member
Messages
45
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Dor said:
WHAT TRUE SCHOLARS HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THE WATCHTOWER'S "TRANSLATION"

Dr. J. A. Mantey (who is quoted on pages 1158-1159 of the Watchtower's own Kingdom Interlinear Translation): "A shocking mistranslation. Obsolete and incorrect. It is neither scholarly nor reasonable to translate John 1:1, The Word was a god."

Dr. Bruce M. Metzger of Princeton (Professor of New Testament Language and Literature): "A frightful mistranslation." "Erroneous" and pernicious" "reprehensible" "If the Jehovah's Witnesses take this translation seriously, they are polytheists."

Dr. Samuel J. Mikolaskl of Zurich, Switzerland:
"This anarthrous (used without the article) construction does not mean what the indefinite article 'a' means in English. It is monstrous to translate the phrase, the Word was a god."

Dr. Paul L. Kaufman of Portland, Oregon: "The Jehovah's Witnesses people evidence an abysmal ignorance of the basic tenets at Greek grammar In their mistranslation of John 1:1."

Dr. Charles L. Feinberg of La Mirada, California: "I can assure you that the rendering which the Jehovah's Witnesses give John 1:1 is not held by any reputable Greek scholar."

Dr. James L. Boyer of Winona Lake, Indiana: "I have never heard of, or read of any Greek Scholar who would agree to the interpretation of this verse insisted upon by the Jehovah's Witnesses... I have never encountered one of them who had any knowledge of the Greek language."

Dr. Walter A. Martin (who does not teach Greek but has studied the language): "The translation, 'a god' instead of 'God', is erroneous and unsupported by any good Greek scholarship, ancient or contemporary and is a translation rejected by all recognized scholars of the Greek language many of whom are not even Christians, and cannot fairly be said to be biased in favor of the orthodox contention."

Dr. Eugene A. Nida, head of Translations Department, American Bible Society: "With regard to John 1:1, there is of course a complication simply because the New World Translation was apparently done by persons who did not take seriously the syntax of the Greek." [Responsible for the Good News Bible--The committee worked under him.]

Dr. B. F. Westcott (whose Greek text--not the English part--is used in the Kingdom Interlinear Translation): "The predicate (God) stands emphatically first, as in iv.24. It is necessarily without the article.... No idea of inferiority of nature is suggested by the form of expression, which affirms the true deity of the Word. ...In the third clause 'the Word' is declared to be 'God.' and so included in the unity of the Godhead."

Dr. J. J. Griesbach (whose Greek text--not the English part--is used in the Emphatic Diaglott): "So numerous and clear are the arguments and testimonies of Scriptures in favor of the true Deity of Christ, that I can hardly imagine how, upon the admission of the Divine authority of Scripture, and with regard to fair rules of interpretation, this doctrine can by any man be called in doubt. Especially the passage, John 1:1-3, is so clear and so superior to all exception, that by no daring efforts of either commentators or critics can it be snatched out of the hands of the defenders of the truth."

Dr. William Barclay of the University of Glasgow, Scotland: "The deliberate distortion of truth by this sect is seen in their New testament translations. John 1:1 is translated: '. . . the Word was a god,' a translation which is grammatically impossible.... it is abundantly clear that a sect which can translate the New Testament like that is intellectually dishonest."
Dr. F. F. Bruce of the University of Manchester, England: "Much is made by Arian amateur grammarians of the omission of the definite article with 'God' in the phrase 'And the Word was God.' Such an omission is common with nouns in a predicative construction--'a god' would be totally indefensible."
[Barclay and Bruce are generally regarded as Great Britain's leading Greek scholars. Both have New Testament translations in print!]

Dr. Ernest C. Colwell of the University of Chicago: "A definite predicate nominative has the article when it follows the verb; it does not have the article when it precedes the verb.. this statement cannot be regarded as strange in the prologue of the gospel which reaches its climax in the confession of Thomas. 'My Lord and my God.'--John 20:28."

Dr. J. Johnson of California State University, Long Beach: "No justification whatsoever for translating theos en ho logos as 'the Word was a god.' There is no syntactical parallel to Acts 28:6 where there is a statement in indirect discourse; John 1:1 is direct. ...I am neither a Christian nor a Trinitarian."

I see some very strong statments have been made against the NWT. However, what is the NWT translators argument in reply to these people?

How about the Watchtower? Why would they quote someone who argues so strongly against their translation?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top