Sunnah and Hadith where does it come from?

Discussion in 'Islam' started by GTv13, Oct 2, 2005.

  1. GTv13

    GTv13 New Member

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    While I know the answer to my question,Im curios what all you Muslims think in this forum.As well Im sure most of you know the answer as well.
    As we all know most Muslims today follow the Sunnah and the Hadith and I guess most of you here in this forum follow it too.
    Anyway to the point.
    I guess we all know, the Sunnah and the Hadith is not from God the Almighty nor prophet Muhammed.
    It is from the people who wrote it 200 years after prophet Muhammed death.
    All that prophet Muhammed left us is the Quran that God the Almighty sent us.
    God the Almighty is protecting the Quran from being changed so that we all get the true Message.Sunnah and the Hadith on the other hand are not being protected.Can we still expect Hadith and Sunnah to be 100% true.
    Prophet Muhammed did not left us any other book other than the Quran.
    Prophet closest followers did not write any of his Sunnah and the Hadith after his death.
    God the Almighty tells us in the Quran that He has perfected our religion for us,as well God the Almighty tells us not to seek any other book exept the Quran.
    I could go on longer but I hope you get the point.
    Now Im just wondering why do most Muslims follow the Sunnah,why do most Muslims today choose to..,even when you present the evidence to them that the Sunnah is just books writen by ordinary people that have many condradictions .People are making the Hadith and the Sunnah religios teaching besides the Quran.
    The truth is most Muslims today are being misguided.
    Tell me what you think, but...
    Please dont reply and tell me Im wrong and you are right, I dont buy that,not to mention is not fair.
    To just think you right is wrong.You should know you right.For example have some evidence or a reasonable explenation.
    peace.
     
  2. Iyad

    Iyad New Member

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    Hi, I'll try to answer your questions the best I can;

    The Sunnah explains the Quran. We should agree on this much. Example the Quran says pray, but doesn't say how, when, where..... It says pay for charity, again doesn't say how, when or how much.
    The Sunnah gives us the details of the broader picture found in the quran... I think there are many examples that you know of that support this.
    Without the Sunnah (explanation of the Quran) you really can't do much with the Quran... Of course you'll know who God is and so but most of the practicalities and rulings as carried out by the prophet (becoming Sunnah)
    - The Quran it's self say's (What the prophet gives you "in rulings" you should take, and what he forbade you from you should abstain from)
    - The Quran alsom says " and obey Allah and the prophet, and those of you with knowledge)
    An opinion of an imam I know says that, if God promised to preserver the Quran, then he must also preserve the Sunnah as it's the explanation of the Qruan... Makes sense?

    Having said that, we do have the freedom of accepting "or not" the traditions of the prophet (S) if we have reason to doubt it's transmission to us... just as you said it was relayed by men and it's the product of man...
    But once we believe that this is what the prophet really acted like, then we cannot reject it by saying "well, we have the Qruan".

    Hope that helped,

    Iyad
     
  3. thipps

    thipps God Alone is Great

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    GTv13, you were discussing this issue in the Hadith thread. I dont understand why you made this separate thread again. No need to repeat the whole thing again. GTv13 please read my last post. It has the answers there. Iyad, I suggest you read the thread especially some things he said in the end.
     
  4. GTv13

    GTv13 New Member

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    whatever,why you closed the thread?

    Why you close the thread befor giving me a chance to responde I dont get it.
    Here is the answer to your post tho.
    I made this thread befor I started posting in the Hadith thread,only nobody was responding.
    OK;look you right I was wrong and I accept it I hope God forgives me for saying: maybe some Prophet companions could have lied at some point in time,maybe some told a smal lie,I dont know for sure.So what else did I say thats unislamic in your opinion.
    Prophet Muhammed was born ca.570 in Mecca,al-Bukhari was born in the year 810.
    Which makes it about 200 years later when he first started collecting Prophet Muhammed Hadith,most Muslims follow his books tho.

    I know that Prophet Muhammed always told the truth,thats not the point, it is not questioning Prophet Muhammed.

    There is a Hadith that says this:
    "Do not write down anything of me except the Quran. Whoever writes other than that should delete it" (Ahmed, Vol. 1, page 171.....also Sahih Muslim)
    You see the problem,the Hadith contradict,not to mention the Hadith you posted is not even Prophet Muhammed's.Is not hard to make the Hadith say what people want,people have to understand that,we know that there are way more false than true Hadith.Which can not be said for the Quran.
    I dont know what to say,if there is a Hadith that has been made up than this deffinetly has to be it.This has to be a joke, I dont see how anybody can prove anything with this except how lost they are.
    What on earth is wrong making lawful that what God tells us in the Quran is lawfull and making unlawfull that what God tells us in the Quran is unlawfull???
    How can anybody argue with that,I dont get it.If somebody says follow the Quran,than no real Muslim can argue with that.

    Great verse,it says:Obey God the Messenger and those good belivers in authority.I hope you people understand the verse,thats all I can say.

    004.064
    SHAKIR: And We did not send any messenger but that he should be obeyed by Allah's permission; and had they, when they were unjust to themselves, come to you and asked forgiveness of Allah and the Messenger had (also) asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah Oft-returning (to mercy), Merciful.
    This verse which is just befor the verse 4.65 and is clearly directed at the people at the time of Prophet Muhammed.
    004.065
    SHAKIR: But no! by your Lord! they do not believe (in reality) until they make you a judge of that which has become a matter of disagreement among them, and then do not find any straitness in their hearts as to what you have decided and submit with entire submission.
    And so is this one,Prophet Muhammed can not judge amongst ourself, now.
    You seem you not familiar with God's miracle in the Quran,click on the link to get the basics how the Quran is being preserved,how every letter has been numberd.If you like to know how God is protecting the Quran read about it.
    http://www.harunyahya.com/miracles_of_the_quran_p4_01.php
    You know what I said and what you are saying I said, is two different things.
    I cleary said I dont know for sure if anybody ever lied,but some could have,now you should keep in mind that I clearly said I dont know for sure, which I dont.
    Never did I even ment any close Prophet Muhammed companions ever lying about him,but thats what you made it look like,this what I said: So even if the companions of Prophet Muhammed did not ever lie as Muslims,not even told any small lies ,but they could have befor they became Muslim,but now I dont know this for sure,but it is fair to say that some have if very few,after all we are humans,we are not perfect.
    If you can not understand the above than forget it,think what you like is up to you.But as you can see I never said for sure anybody ever lied,not to mention never ment anybody of telling any big lie,lying about Prophet Muhammed or religion is not a small lie,so no never ment it.So next time it be nice if you dont try to read peoples thoughts if you like to know for sure what they ment,than ask.But now the reason for me talking about if anybody ever lied, was the reason what the science of the Hadith says:If anybody has ever lied at any point the Hadith from them cant be accepted as authentic.Again my point was how can anybody know if anybody ever lied,at all,cuz most people lie,at least people tell small lies.
    But maybe I got it wrong I guess they ment if anybody was ever reported of ever telling a lie the Hadith should not be accepted from them as authentic.
    Anyway should not have said it,you right,but never said it the way you are making me look like.
    I dont know what you talkin about,I always said I dont know for sure which Hadith is 100% authentic and which is not,I can guess but thats not the same,thats all I said.Nor do I think anybody else has the knowlege to know for sure the difference between all the true and the false Hadith.You fail to understand verses in the Quran, you dont get, that we just cant obey Prophet Muhammed,if God ment to follow or obey his Hadith than He would have said so.
    Crossed the line common you know thats not true.
    Allah tells us, the Quran is the Guidence for the belivers and never,I mean never is any Hadith mentioned.I mean common if its so important than why didnt God not once tell us to follow the Hadith.As you like to say, Hope this gives you food for thought.
    peace.
     
  5. GTv13

    GTv13 New Member

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    OK,Iyad you belive in that,thats fine with me, but I deffinetly dont agree with you.
    You can read about the Hadith here http://www.submission.org/qhi.html they explain it well if you dont agree with it well than so be it,thats totaly up to you.
    By the way we know how the Quran is being preserved there is proof for that,unlike the Sunnah.
    peace.
     
  6. Iyad

    Iyad New Member

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    Hi GTv13,

    The site you suggested is full of ****! if you read well enough, they also claim the the Quran has two added (false) verses! how do you like that? All because they have this stupid (mathematical system) and the had to take those verses out to make it work!

    If there is no Sunnah or Traditions, how do you know how to pray? or how much to pay for Zakat? The Quran has the higher rulings always, but it doesn't tell you all that you need to know...

    I actually asked the admin of that site how does he know that we have to pay 2.5% for zakat? and he said it was established by Abraham (I can forward you the email if needed) So what he is saying, is that he trust traditions passed down from the time of Abraham but not ones from the time of Muhammad??? does that make any sense? And further more, how were they transmitted to us??? Exactly! Traditions :)

    Again, I think you have the right to deny rulings based only on hadeeths if you have reasons to doubt the transmission of the haddeths. But if for any reason you believe or accept that this hadeeth is true, then you really can't say no to that... It would be rejecting the prophet's commands...
    Do we agree on this?

    Good luck,
    Iyad
     
  7. thipps

    thipps God Alone is Great

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    Re: whatever,why you closed the thread?

    I closed it cause I didnt care to see your "responde" after you had,being given a chance to clarify, said that you considered the Companions(May Allaah be pleased with them) as liars. Nothing good can come from you after such statements.
    The fact that you can even consider them possible of lying and that too regards the Messenger(pbuh) is enough for you to violate the Quranic verse i mentioned. I'm not going to discuss this further.
    Did you even read the links I gave you?? It contains proof of a mid-1st century AH (7th century) collection. Stop repeating the same things you were saying there and wasting time and consider what was in the link. The thing is you were obviously unaware of this collection. Didnt you read where it said "We can see that of the 138 narrations in the Sahifa, 98 of them are faithfully witnessed in the later collections of al-Bukhari and Muslim, both through narrations of Abu Hurrairah and witnessing narrations from other Companions"?
    Don't you see how isnad (chains of narration) work and transmissions of traditions take place?

    Firslty, you didnt respond to the importance I attached to the two narrations combined relevant to the science of hadith. Secondly, the first hadith quotes the answer Prophet Mohammad(pbuh) gave to 'Abdallah bin Amr. The second one is a statement of Abu Hurairah (May Allaah be pleased with him) confirming the first hadith even though it was said by another Companion(May Allaah be pleased with him) and there you go again accusing the companions of the Prophet(pbuh) of being liars when you said "not to mention the Hadith you posted is not even Prophet Muhammed's"
    Thridly, yes, i know the hadith you just quoted and had you actual knowledge, you would know the answer to the question you are raising with that hadith. If you wanted to know about this, you could have easily asked before you accused the Companions (May Allaah be pleased with them) of being liers; I would tell you but what you said regarding the Companions of the Prophet(pbuh) was unacceptable then and it is still so. And thats why I closed the thread and I will do the same with this one if i deem it necessary. And you are already on a thin wire. Still, I will explain in reference to the hadith you quoted as it is a crucial matter but in a seperate post as this is already very long.
    Ok, you have accused me of not being a Muslim without proof. I'll let it go for this time, dont say it again especially when you quoted only a part of the text of the hadith. The complete hadith was conveying the message of not abandoning the Sunnah. Why didnt you speak of the complete hadith? Why did you just take out the convenient part??
    I know what you think of it. I didnt write it for you to answer, thats why I closed the thread. it was just for you to think of. We have gone over this before, we dont agree with you.
    The problem was with the method used in that website you gave before to explain how you know the number of rak'ah of each prayer. Goto(http://www.submission.org/salat19.html) In one place it said that:
    This is 2:37:
    Then Adam received from his Lord words (of revelation), and He relented toward him. Lo! He is the relenting, the Merciful. [Pickthal's Translation]
    Then learnt Adam from his Lord words of inspiration, and his Lord Turned towards him; for He is Oft-Returning, Most Merciful. [Yusuf Ali's Translation]
    Where does it mention Sura 1?
    And then later the webpage suddenly mentioned that "The five prayers consist of 2, 4, 4, 3, and 4 units (Rak'ahs), respectively." Where did this come from? How is this known? This is what I actually wanted answered. If the answer is written somewher else, then please simple paste the material and/or give the exact link as you would obviously know better where to find it on that website. This will save us all some valuable time.
    As a side thing, from what i read of the details of 'the key', i have more questions like this but i think mine and Iyad's questions are enough for now.
    I gave you a chance to clarify and you did. You made it clear that you considered it possible for them to lie. Since you rejected the hadith on this basis, it is equivalent to calling them liers. that was enough I believe. I dont want to hear anything else from you on this.
    I didnt even quote that in my reply as far as I can tell. Anyway, did you forget what you said besides that? let me refresh your memory. This was you saying in post #46 of the Hadith thread.
    now, here you are again making sure we understood you in post #47 that you didnt mean just the companions but pretty much everyone else.
    Thats exactly what you said. You cant deny it. Dont play games and waste our time! and what I said was not in response to the text you quoted. You know this. Go back to the thread. You are beginning to become a trouble maker. Either keep track of what people are saying and stop misquoting what reponse is made to which statement or I might have to close this thread as well or even ask the administrator to restrict your posting ability. Your behaviour is hampering any constructive dicussion.
    And this statement you quoted (from post #46) above was made by you only as an extreme case and I countered a similar statement you made in post #47 by telling you that it is irrelevant because it would have been before they were Muslims and it would obviously not matter to science of hadith and neither to anyone else cause these wouldnt be considered. As for after they became Muslims, again, I ask you to recall 9:100.
    asked and answered above.
    God did say so. We've gone over this before. Lets move on.
    Finally, I strongly suggest you read the Code of Conduct and watch what you say. If you feel that you must continue like this, then I strongly suggest you go to the Comparative Studies board where they might entertain you.
     
  8. thipps

    thipps God Alone is Great

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    Salaam Iyad,
    Privately send me the link where it says this.
    Please, privately send me this email. I'd like to have a look.
    Jazaakallah.
     
  9. GTv13

    GTv13 New Member

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    I'll just say this,
    Most Muslim today are not real Muslims I mean comon how can anybody be true Muslim if they call themself names,split into sects.
    Why cant the Muslim in Iraq agree on the constitution,why do we have so many sects,where does the difference comes from.
    Well you should know this thips,is because every sect has different Sunnah,they all follow some other book beside the Quran.
    Now who is right, who has the authentic Sunnah,Im sure everybody likes to claim they do.The point is Sunnah can be changed and we can not possibly know what Sunnah is 100% authentic.
    If all the Muslims followed the Quran than there could be no differences.
    There are Sunnah that tells us to keep our beard if we want to remain Muslims,which just dont make no sense.It just shows how people like to pick on everything.
    We know Bible has been corrupted over time, all the Muslims accept that,even tho the Bible was sent in truth and had no mistakes in it.
    So the point is why cant the Hadith be changed, God never mention protecting anything beside the Quran.
    Even if none of the false Hadith was never collected 200 years later after Prophet Muhammed,that still dont mean that it cant be changed in the next 1000 years.
    Is it not enaugh to know that God never mentions following any Hadith but only the Quran nor did God promised to protect anything beside the Quran as we all know.
    Thips you know in the Quran it says Prophet Muhammed did not know the future so how come we have that Hadith.If you like to claim that we need the Hadith to explain the Quran than give us all few examples,show us were we need the Hadith to explain the Quran.
    Prophet Muhammed only left us the Quran he never collected any of his Hadith.
    About the two false verses in the Quran,there is a Hadith that mentions it.
    Volume 6, Book 61, Number 511:

    Narrated Zaid bin Thabit:

    Abu Bakr sent for me and said, "You used to write the Divine Revelations for Allah's Apostle : So you should search for (the Qur'an and collect) it." I started searching for the Qur'an till I found the last two Verses of Surat At-Tauba with Abi Khuzaima Al-Ansari and I could not find these Verses with anybody other than him. (They were):


    'Verily there has come unto you an Apostle (Muhammad) from amongst yourselves. It grieves him that you should receive any injury or difficulty ...' (9.128-129)
    http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/061.sbt.html

    Now since you all belive and put your trust in the Hadith dont you question it too.But remember the two verses are rejected by the mathematical miracle in the Quran.
    Try not to be to quick to pass judgment on a Islamic website but read what they have to say first.
    peace.
     
  10. thipps

    thipps God Alone is Great

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    ooook. I think that pretty much says it all now doesnt it. I warned you before; seems you dont listen well. your throwing that accusation around as if its a box of chocolates. This is your final warning... you make that accusation again without proper proof, you will be reported to the administrator of this forum.
    We can and since you already admitted that you dont know anything much about Hadith sciences, your opinion is baseless.
    really? Already showed you that this claim of yours is a dream. Everyone will come up with thier own interpretation and thier's is as good as yours. No differences?! yeah right.
    diversionary tactics. First answer all the previous questions, then any others will be entertained.
    Cause God said in teh Quran itself that the Bible has been corrupted. Show me where the Quran says that the Hadith are corrupted.
    asked and answered. Stop repeating. Lets move on.
    First you answer all the other stuff, we have all the time in the world to get to this.
    Ok, this is really preposterous. You dont consider hadith to be untrustworthy and yet again you have used it to prove your point. This means you still need to prove your point. your proof is unsatisfactory. This also flies right in the face of your insistance that the Quran has not been corrupted. According to your method, you just showed that it has! You say those two verses need to be removed cause they dont conform to your mathematical system!! your going in the wrong direction! it should be the other way around. It only proves again your so-called system to be incorrect.
    finally, you still ignored all the important questions I asked. First those, otherwise dont bother posting here anymore.
     
  11. GTv13

    GTv13 New Member

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    How many islamic sects are there and why,I dont need an answer from you but just think.There is no sects in real Islam its that simple.

    I never said it the way you saying it and it dont matter if you think my opinion is basless, thats fine. But who named it scenece of the Hadith I wonder,let me guess people 1000 years ago.We are using science to prove what people said 1300 years ago,yeah ok,nice to know that the process is very scientific.
    The fact is every sect has a different Sunnah in some way or other I guess it tells us that there is no room for any false Hadith.
    If you like science than check out the miracle in the Quran is very scientific,remember numbers dont lie.

    You dont have to respond to some of my post if you not going to say nothing inteligent about it.
    What is wrong by following the Quran,its the Book from God the only Message Prophet Muhammed left us, thats a fact.


    God never mentions any Hadith except the Quran thats a fact,but God does tells us that the Quran is being protected by Him the Most Wise.
    But dont you know that there are tons of false Hadith and we all know about it,if you check out some unislamic site you'll see that they use one of the worst made up Hadith to undermine Islam.But than every sect belives in some different Hadiths,not all sects agree with all the Hadiths,so what dont you understand.If you think than we can find out for sure all the true Hadith from all the false once than ok so be it,thats up to you.I just dont see a reason to guess.

    You go ahead you the one saying we need the Hadith to explain the Quran.

    You right I always said we cant trust all the Hadith,some deffinetly sound more truthfull than others but we cant know for sure if all the Hadith people call authentic really are.I always said Hadith are History since thats what it is,having said that History is never exact by its nature,cuz over time people chage it in some way or other.
    But you trust all the authentic proclaimed Hadith 100% so why wont you trust in the Hadith I posted for you.The mathematical system in the Quran is the way God Almighty is protecting the Quran.Everything in the Quran is numbered every chapter,verse,word,and that is one of the ways God is protecting the Quran,if we change anything we will know thanx to the mathematical system in the Quran.Those two verses have been questioned for a long time and finely we can know for sure that it dont belong in the Quran.The only sura in the Quran that dont start with "In the name of God"is te sura 9 where the 2 false verses have been found,think about it,God did that on purpose for a reason.
    It is not my so called system nor anybody elses but it is God who numbered everything for a reason,God only reveald to us His miracle in the Quran.
    peace.
     
  12. Iyad

    Iyad New Member

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    Thips,

    I'll email you the links insha allah.

    GTv13,

    I'd like to ask you a question:

    Did the prophet (S) know about this "mathematical system" that you claim?

    If yes, then why did he keep that knowledge from us? Thus leading to millions of muslims living and dying without the benefits of this "system".

    If not, then are you saying that God didn't reveal this "system" to the prophet (S)? Kept something regarding the Quran from the prophet (S)? Further more, if the prophet didn't know or need that "System", then what makes you think we do?

    Please think and provide me with an honest answer that makes sense to you...

    One last thing, if somebody wanted to "add" something to the Quran, you really think that this is what they would add? just a little of praise to the prophet??? what deference does that make??? it's proving the obvious, the prophet was praised throughout the Quran... what does adding to verses praising him do to those who added them??? that makes sense to you??? I would understand if you mentioned verses that would change a ruling or so... but these specific verses??? Just tell me why would any one add that??? just for the heck of it?

    Good luck and may Allah guide us to the straight path...
     
  13. thipps

    thipps God Alone is Great

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    Iyad, GTv13 has been banned. So, he wont be posting anymore.
    To those who are reading this thread, I'll still be posting soon about that one hadith Gtv13 mentioned to which I said that I would answer it soon. Inshallah tomorrow.
    thipps.
    P.S. Iyad, Hope to receive your email. Shukran.
     
  14. thipps

    thipps God Alone is Great

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    Here is the explanation of the hadith I said would be clarified. better to start with the (authentic) hadith itself.
    Indeed it is mentioned in Saheeh Muslim from Abee Sa'eed al-Khudree in marfoo' [1] form, 'Whoever writes from me something other than the Qur’aan, then let him erase it.'

    Al Haafidh Ibn Katheer said: [2]

    I say, that it has been established in the two Saheeh's that the Messenger of Allah (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam) said, 'Write for Abee Shaah.' And indeed we clarified this topic in the introductions of our first books. And for Allah is the praise.

    Al Bayhaqee and Ibnus Salaah and more than one other than them have said: Perhaps the prohibition of that was for when it was feared that it would get mixed in with the Qur’aan, and then afterwards it was secured from that. And Allah knows best.

    Indeed it was related from the scholars of later times that they agreed upon the permissibility of writing the hadeeth's, and this matter is exhaustive, widespread, and well known, without disapproval.
    (My note: Ibn katheer mentioned some other explanations offered as well but these have not been shown here for the sake of brevity.)
    The Correct Answer:

    The prohibition was abrogated by other hadeeth’s showing its permissibility.

    So indeed Bukhaaree, and Muslim relate that circumstances required Abee Shaah to have something written from the Messenger of Allah (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam), which he heard in his sermon. This was in the year of the victory over Makkah. So he (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam) said, "Write for Abee Shaah."

    Abu Daawood, and al-Haakim and other than these two relate from 'Abdullah Ibn 'Amr Ibnul 'Aas who said, "I said, 'O Messenger of Allah (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam), verily I heard something from you, so can I write it?' He said, 'Yes.' I said, 'In happiness and anger?' He said, 'Yes, for verily I do not speak in these two except truth.'"

    Bukhaaree related from Abee Hurayrah that he said, "No one from among the Companions of the Messenger of Allah (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam) had more hadeeth’s than me, except for 'Abdullah Ibn 'Amr. Verily he used to write, and I did not write."

    Tirmidhee related from Abee Hurayrah that he said, "A man from the Ansaar was sitting with the Messenger of Allah (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam). So he heard a hadeeth from him, and it amazed him, but he could not memorize it. So he complained to the Messenger of Allah (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam). So he (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam) said, 'Use your right hand.' And he signalled with his hand to writing."

    These hadeeth’s, along with the affirmation of this action by the majority of the Companions, and the second generation, then the agreement of the Ummah after that upon it's permissibility - all of this proves that the hadeeth of Abee Sa'eed is abrogated, and that was the beginning of the matter when it was feared that it would distract them from the Qur’aan, and when it was feared that other than the Qur’aan would become mixed up with the Qur’aan. And in the Musnad (no. 7276) and in the Tabaqaat of Ibn Sa'ad (5/209) is what proves that a hadeeth was written for a lame man by them, and he read from it.

    If the hadeeth of Abee Sa'eed of prohibition was after these hadeeth’s of permission and permissibility, then that would have been known by the Companions with unadulterated faith. Instead, there came the decisive agreement of the whole Ummah after the conclusive proof that the permission of the matter was in later times. It is an agreement affirmed by many recurrent actions from every group from amongst the Ummah after the first period. May Allah have mercy upon them all.

    Indeed Ibnus Salaah said: "Then all that differing ceased, and all the Muslims agreed upon writing that being permissible, and were it not for writing them in the books for the lessons..." And indeed he spoke the truth. May Allah have mercy upon him.

    And from what proves that the writing of hadeeth’s has preceded from the older times of the Companions is what is found in Tahdheeb (1/470) in the biography of Basheer Ibn Nuhayk. Yahyaa Ibnul Qattaan said: "From Imraan Ibn Hadheer: From Abee Majliz: From Basheer Ibn Nuhayk who said: I came to Abee Hurayrah with my book which I used to write in. So I read to him from it and I said: I heard this from you. He said: Yes." And this text is also related by Tirmidhee (4/396), and by al-Khateeb in al-Kifaayah (no. 283), and Ibn Sa'ad (7/1/no. 162)

    Footnotes:
    [1] "marfoo": This comes from the Arabic root word, 'rafa'a', which means: to be raised, or to raise. Marfoo' means something which is raised, in this case - a marfoo' narration is one that stops at a Companion in the chain of narration, but the text is such that none other than the Prophet (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam) could have spoken it. It is used when the Companion does not state that he heard the narration from the Prophet (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam), as is the case here.
    [2] al-Baa'ithul Hatheeth Sharh Ikhtisaar 'Uloomul Hadeeth, pp. 129-130
     
  15. dawd

    dawd New Member

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    There seems to be some innaccuracies here, so I'm going to remind you of ayats at Surah 6, ayat 68 onwards. Please check this in qur'an
     
  16. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Wow, that is quite an escape clause... If we all followed that one could there be war? Christianity has a similar one folks like to use...but it is a tad more derisive.. If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet.
     
  17. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    But if you note Dawd, that last response was 12 years ago....it seems they followed the ayat!
     

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