the prophet elijah

Discussion in 'Christianity' started by star light, Oct 17, 2005.

  1. star light

    star light New Member

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    please could some one answear this question for me.
    in the book of malachi chapter 4 verse 5 "see i will send you the prophet elijah
    before that great and dreadfull day of the lord comes he will turn the hearts of the fathers to the children and the hearts of thire children to thire fathers"
    this means before the messiah comes elijah will return so in the new testiment who is elijah?
    a friend of mine said it was john the baptist, so i looked in the book of john and in chapter 1 verse 21 it sais " they asked him, then who are you?are you elijah? he said i am not " are you the prophet he answered no.
    could someone tell me who elijah was?
     
  2. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    it is mybelief as a Jehovahs witness ,that John the baptist did indeed fullfill a work( LIKE )Iljah,
    Also, he will go before him with E·li´jah’s spirit and power, to turn back the hearts of fathers to children and the disobedient ones to the practical wisdom of righteous ones, to get ready for Jehovah a prepared people.....luke 1;17 these words were spoken to John the baptists father Zechariah ,by an angel ,so according to this he would be like Ilijah

    Jesus indicated that John did that work but was not recognized by the Jews. (Mt 17:11-13)
    In reply he said: "E·li´jah, indeed, is coming and will restore all things. However, I say to YOU that E·li´jah has already come and they did not recognize him but did with him the things they wanted. In this way also the Son of man is destined to suffer at their hands." Then the disciples perceived that he spoke to them about John the Baptist matthew 17;11-13

    After John’s death a visionary appearance of Elijah along with Moses occurred at Jesus’ transfiguration, indicating that there was something yet to take place as represented by the work that Elijah had done.—Mr 9:1-8.

     
  3. BlaznFattyz

    BlaznFattyz Well-Known Member

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    elijah was a prophet of god. elijah was used by god to call his nation back to him. elijah showed courage and strength and faithfulness in all god commanded of him. he used the power of god to show signs, such as calling fire from heaven, splitting water in two, and calling for drought or rain to show gods power. unfortunately, some people did not believe elijah and the message he brought. elijah was eventually taken away by god for what reason i do not know.

    likewise, i do not know the reason why michael fought with satan over moses' body. the reason i mention these two, is because both used god's power to proclaim their message. water was turned to blood, the sea was divided, fire was brought down from heaven, plagues were brought, etc. even moses though he did great things, unfortunately some people did not believe in the message he brought or strayed to easily.

    these works of god are again paralleled in revelations when we see that the works of the Two Witnesses are just like what moses and elijah did, and what they proclaimed. maybe god hid their bodies for this reason. maybe it matters that the jews left be called back to god by these prophets, since that would cause them to see gods miracles in well known biblical figures that are highly respected and they would be highly effective as the second and last chance for those to hear their message.

    if not moses and elijah, then surely, the message is the most important.
     
  4. johnp.

    johnp. Established Member

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    Hello star light nice to meet you.

    Elijah is Elijah in the NT. There are two occasions Jesus would be coming to earth. Once was when He was born as the Saviour of His people and the second time, yet to be, to be the Judge. ISA 61:2 to proclaim the year of the LORD's favor and the day of vengeance of our God...
    Between the two comings is where we are now and before He comes again He will send Elijah to Israel to turn the Jews around. John was like him in that he preached to the Jews.
    I think as Enoch was also one who never died he will be the second of the two prophets to visit and lay down his life in Jerusalem because, for Moses to come back it would mean a resurrection as he has died, his body hid by God, and we are all to be resurrected together.

    The reason for Satan to want the body of Moses is that if the body of Moses was around the Jews would have ended up worshipping his tomb.

    When Jesus declared Himself the question was raised that if Jesus is who He said He was then Elijah should have been around as well and if you like John is like him.

    MAL 4:5 "See, I will send you the prophet Elijah before that great and dreadful day of the LORD comes.
    Before and dreadful day not before the proclamation of the year of the LORD's favor. But John was doing what Elijah will be doing.

    I think mee's After John’s death a visionary appearance of Elijah along with Moses... might be a bit off center as vision can mean something seen otherwise than by the ordinary sight. The actual Greek there means they saw Moses and Elijah by the light reflected from them. They were seen with the eyes not seen with the mind.

    john.
     
  5. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    Jesus said it was a vision...................And as they are coming down from the mount, Jesus charged them, saying, `Say to no one the vision, till the Son of Man out of the dead may rise. .................................... Youngs litral translation... matthew 17;9 and the KJVAnd as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead. matthew 17;9 and the NWT
    And as they were descending from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, saying: "Tell the vision to no one until the Son of man is raised up from the dead.



     
  6. johnp.

    johnp. Established Member

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    3 a : the act or power of seeing : visual sensation or the capacity for it :
    "vision." Webster's Third New International Dictionary, Unabridged. Merriam-Webster, 2002. http://unabridged.merriam-webster.com (1 Dec. 2005).

    The word is ambiguous as it means both things seen with the eyes as well as the mind mee.

    john.
     
  7. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    so what was the transfigaration? it was a preview of Jesus in kingdom glory

    One reason Jesus called it a vision was that long-dead Moses and Elijah were not literally present. Only Christ was actually there. (Matthew 17:8, 9) Such a dazzling display gave Peter, James, and John a spectacular foregleam of Jesus’ glorious presence in Kingdom power. Moses and Elijah find parallels in Jesus’ anointed joint heirs, and the vision powerfully reinforced his testimony about the Kingdom and his future kingship

     
  8. johnp.

    johnp. Established Member

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    Hello mee.

    That's just the point isn't it mee? If they were not real then why should Jesus say say nothing of what you have seen?

    MT 17:9 As they were coming down the mountain, Jesus instructed them, "Don't tell anyone what you have seen, until the Son of Man has been raised from the dead."

    If Christ was the only One there then they would have seen only Christ would they not?

    Matt 17:3 Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.

    Appeared, as if they were visible by the light reflected as the Greek word means I think.

    Remember that Elijah never died but was taken to Heaven to await his return before the great and terrible day of the Lord.

    john.
     
  9. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    And as they were descending from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, saying: "Tell the VISION to no one until the Son of man is raised up from the dead. matthew 17;9 it was as if they saw it but as jesus said it was a vision i think you missed the word vision out in your quote ..........yes they saw a vision .yes as you say elijah did not die when he was taken up in a windstorm

    nor does he go into the invisible spirit realm, but he is transferred to another prophetic assignment. (Joh 3:13) A number of years after his ascension in the windstorm Elijah is still alive and active as a prophet, this time to the king of Judah. Because of the wicked course taken by King Jehoram of Judah, Elijah writes him a letter expressing Jehovah’s condemnation, which is fulfilled shortly thereafter.—2Ch 21:12-15;
    Who, then, do Moses and Elijah foreshadow in the context of the transfiguration? Luke says that they appeared along with Jesus "with glory." (Luke 9:31) Clearly, they foreshadow Christians who have been anointed with holy spirit as "joint heirs" with Jesus and who thereby received the wonderful hope of being "glorified together" with him. (Romans 8:17)

    Moses and Elijah foreshadow the anointed remnant in the time of the end. How do we know that?

    Because the anointed remnant perform works that, in a spiritual way, are like those of Moses and Elijah.



     
  10. taijasi

    taijasi Gnōthi seauton

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    Just as Christ admonished Nicodemus for not being familiar with the esoteric teachings of his own faith (John 3), so he challenged his disciples to see beyond appearances and recognize the same Spirit (or soul) that had appeared as Elijah, returned as John the Baptist. There is nothing symbolic about this, or figurative, or platitudinous. It does tell us something of the Kingdom of God, and reminds us that our closest family, friends, and teachers are those we have known before, in many, many circuits around the wheel (or its `hub').

    Specifically, Nicodemus questions Christ regarding how a man can be born again - actually asking him about re-entering his mother's womb! Christ responds, saying, "Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?" (John 3:10)

    Again, in response to his disciples' questions regarding Elijah, Christ says, "And if you are willing to accept it, this is Elijah, who was foretold to come. He who has ears, let him hear." (Matthew 11:14-15)

    But as we see so often, few there are who can hear ... and if what we hear does not fit neatly into its assigned cubby - we repackage it and refine it until it does.

    To wit ...

    -A
     
  11. Faithfulservant

    Faithfulservant Well-Known Member

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    Zech 4: 11 Then I answered and said to him, "What are these two olive trees--at the right of the lampstand and at its left?" 12 And I further answered and said to him, "What are these two olive branches that drip into the receptacles* of the two gold pipes from which the golden oil drains?" 13 Then he answered me and said, "Do you not know what these are?" And I said, "No, my lord." 14 So he said, "These are the two anointed ones, who stand beside the Lord of the whole earth."

    Rev 11:3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth." 4 These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the God of the earth

    I wanted to add these two verses into the discussion.

    In the book of John.. John the Baptist was asked if he was Elijah and he said no he was not..

    We see Elijah return with Moses at the transfiguration.. Its a wonderful preview of the prophecy in Revelation when Jesus is to return to be crowned King of King and Lord of Lords with these two men being present at both pivotal times of Christs reign.
     
  12. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    yes i agree it is a preview of Jesus in his glory when he is king of Gods kingdom but he is not alone because he has others ruling with him they are the 144000 and the two witnesses are the remnent on the earth of these


    Even while being trampled on, these loyal ones do not cease to be Jehovah’s faithful witnesses. Hence, the prophecy continues: "‘And I will cause my two witnesses to prophesy a thousand two hundred and sixty days dressed in sackcloth.’ These are symbolized by the two olive trees and the two lampstands and are standing before the Lord of the earth."—Revelation 11:3, 4.





    These faithful anointed Christians needed the quality of endurance, for they had to prophesy "in sackcloth." What did this mean? In Bible times sackcloth often symbolized mourning. Wearing it was a sign that the person had been brought low in sorrow or distress. (Genesis 37:34; Job 16:15, 16; Ezekiel 27:31) Sackcloth was associated with the mournful messages of doom or grief that God’s prophets had to proclaim. (Isaiah 3:8, 24-26; Jeremiah 48:37; 49:3) The wearing of sackcloth could indicate humility or repentance in view of divine warning. (Jonah 3:5) The sackcloth worn by the two witnesses appears to indicate their humble endurance in announcing Jehovah’s judgments. They were witnesses proclaiming his day of vengeance that would bring mourning also to the nations.—Deuteronomy 32:41-43.

     
  13. taijasi

    taijasi Gnōthi seauton

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    Point, counter-point ... in response to FS, I would add this:

    If you ask me, point-blank: "Are you x, y or z?" - where x, y or z stand for previous incarnations of the Soul, I will likely state no as my answer, for one of several possible reasons:




    1. I was actually that person(s) and I know it, but I prefer to say otherwise.
    2. I was actually that person(s) and I don't know it, so I say no.
    3. I was not that person(s), and I know it.



    Now I maintain that John spoke truly, because if his was the first case, he did so for a greater good - than would have been served, had he simply said, "yes."

    Or, it is entirely possible that he did not recall, and thus he also spoke truly - according to his memory, though Christ spoke more truly, relying on a deeper source, or greater memory, for his knowledge.

    In the first case, it is easily understandable why - to minimize conflict in some particular circumstance - one might answer a question in such a way that s/he is technically correct, but avoiding the controversial subject at hand. In this case, consider, it doesn't matter who any of us might have been in a former incarnation, whether John the Baptist or the Buddha himself. The present lifetime is the only one in which we can positively effect change - and by acting in the present.

    John the Baptist was not Elijah ... in that incarnation, just as I am not Abraham Lincoln! I am Joe Schmoe, and that is what matters right now. By emphasizing this (and my potential), I make a greater point than getting hung up on the long string of successes & failures that characterizes the former career of every soul to have walked the earth.

    Let's not just scripture-pick. I'm giving references, of which there are more, to support the notion that John the Baptist was indeed Elijah - the same soul - reincarnated (literally). There are other interpretations. But I maintain, and on good faith and experience, that he has also reincarnated since then (as have we all) ... and can even be found, for those who might need him in their particular karmic circumstance, in the flesh, on this very day - not 50 miles from where I sit.

    Now you may call me an idiot. I will smile, and laugh - as much at myself for typing such a thing. But I tell no tale, at least to the best of my knowledge. And I will maintain such a belief until I have equally good reason to believe otherwise.

    And - at last - there is a purpose to it all!

    andrew
     
  14. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    I think the fun part is that in another life it was someone on the board that disagrees with you that was telling you about reincarnation...
     
  15. Faithfulservant

    Faithfulservant Well-Known Member

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    Interesting as your view is, Taijasi, I do not subscribe to the belief of reincarnation because its not biblically supported. We are appointed one time to die not hundreds as we go through many lives.


    Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,


    It also takes away the message of Salvation.. what point would salvation be if all you had to do was die and do it all over again because you didnt accept the gift the first time.

    I do think its a nice idea because it seems easy but the path IS narrow.

    Thank you for sharing your ideas Taijasi :)

    FS
     
  16. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    John the Baptist emphatically stated NO, he was not the prophet Elijah. Which means that Elijah has not yet returned...

    Oooooh boy, are we in for a surprise...

    Elijah is yet to return. Yet another prophecy to be fulfilled. Elijah's return had nothing to do with the coming of Christ, but everything to do with the second coming.

    If so, how will we recognize him? I think that would be an appropriate question.

    v/r

    Q
     
  17. taijasi

    taijasi Gnōthi seauton

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    My apologies ... I think I have used poor judgement. Indeed, this is the Christian forum, and it seems my posts are out of line. I stand corrected.
    andrew
     
  18. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    Why? Because John said no? He is not Elijah, and you think he is? Hmmm. I think I'd be a bit off kilter as well.


    Or maybe it is because some Christians say no, to your views...That is called freedom my friend. You ought to get use to it. It has been around for about 200 plus years.

    v/r

    Q
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2005
  19. Popeyesays

    Popeyesays Well-Known Member

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    In my faith, ABdu'l Baha explains this very question:

    "We will begin to elucidate it from the Gospel, for there it is plainly said that when John, the son of Zacharias, appeared and gave to men the glad tidings of the Kingdom of God, they asked him, "Who art thou? Art thou the promised Messiah?" He replied, "I am not the Messiah." Then they asked him, "Art thou Elijah?" He said, "I am not."[2] These words prove and show that John, the son of Zacharias, was not the promised Elias. But on the day of the transfiguration on Mount Tabor Christ said plainly that John, the son of Zacharias, was the promised Elias.
    [1 Cf. p. 110, n. 2.]
    [2 Cf. John 1:19-21.]
    In chapter 9, verses 11-13, of the Gospel of Mark, it is said: "And they asked Him, saying, Why say the scribes that Elias must first come? And He answered and told them, Elias verily cometh first, and restoreth all things; and how it is written of the Son of man, that He must suffer many things, and be set at nought. But I say unto you, That Elias is indeed come, and they have done unto him whatsoever they listed, as it is written of him."
    In chapter 17, verse 13, of Matthew, it is said: "Then 133 the disciples understood that He spake unto them of John the Baptist."
    They asked John the Baptist, "Are you Elias?" He answered, "No, I am not," although it is said in the Gospel that John was the promised Elias, and Christ also said so clearly.[1] Then if John was Elias, why did he say, "I am not"? And if he was not Elias, why did Christ say that he was?
    [1 Cf. John 1:21.]
    The explanation is this: not the personality, but the reality of the perfections, is meant -- that is to say, the same perfections that were in Elias existed in John the Baptist and were exactly realized in him. Therefore, John the Baptist was the promised Elias. In this case not the essence,[1] but the qualities, are regarded. For example, there was a flower last year, and this year there is also a flower; I say the flower of last year has returned. Now, I do not mean that same flower in its exact individuality has come back; but as this flower has the same qualities as that of last year -- as it has the same perfume, delicacy, color and form -- I say the flower of last year has returned, and this flower is the former flower. When spring comes, we say last year's spring has come back because all that was found in last year's spring exists in this spring. That is why Christ said, "You will see all that happened in the days of the former Prophets."
    [1 I.e., the individuality.]
    (Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 133)
     
  20. Faithfulservant

    Faithfulservant Well-Known Member

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    Taijasi please dont think your beliefs are unwelcome here. We all bring something to the pot and as long as you arent here trying to preach to me your beliefs as law you wont be offending me. I think most of us are strong enough in our faiths and knowledgable enough to give you a grand discussion! So have at it :)
     

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