Conversations with God

Discussion in 'Belief and Spirituality' started by DrFree, Oct 26, 2005.

  1. harticulate

    harticulate New Member

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    I loved the book..........questioned whether this was a two person conversation and then went back to loving the book.

    What it most sparked was.............in this book or any other book including the Bible how can I comprehend that any written words are from God? If I can't believe it from a current book...............how can I believe it from an older book/books?

    And so my religion goes down the p**per!:eek:
     
  2. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    ah but Hart that is the blessing...every divine word has been printed and edited by man. It is in the discernment we find our connection....a connection to our life, right now, our circumstances right now.

    Whether we we are reading CWG or the Bible or Paramahansa Yogananda.. or watching Harry Potter or Narnia, the words have and underlying current that has an effect on what is our accumulation of experience and knowledge and what is happening in our lives.

    We've all seen our understanding of scripture change as our life experience changes...the same thing happens with the authors and editors of what they receive as divine thought...it is edited through their filters and fingers...and then through ours as we read and interpret...
    only if your current thinking and understanding you grow out of it...and into?? and back to?? it happens, today is a stepping stone to tomorrow..
     
  3. harticulate

    harticulate New Member

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    Ahhhhhhhhhhhh.................Namaste Wil

    Back to loving the book............and the walk....
     
  4. maggie2

    maggie2 New Member

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    It's been a while since I read CWG but I certainly enjoyed it at the time I read it. I found it was a book that encouraged people to pursue their own spiritual paths and that was a positive thing for me. I think we each must walk our own path in finding God and CWG is a good example of someone doing just that.
     
  5. InquisitiveInHalifax

    InquisitiveInHalifax New Member

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    Dr Free

    I find this statement profound, you've expressed something that I think I've always believe but never been able to express myself.

    Thank-you,
    R
     
  6. taijasi

    taijasi Gnōthi seauton

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    I recently picked up a copy of CWG (vol. I) at the local library and flipped through it. Parts, I read in full, even reread repeatedly. Other parts I skimmed through, while some, I had to summon a certain degree of patience and non-judgementalness to get through. Bottom line? I think there is much of value in CWG, and I definitely appreciate the fresh approach. But it would have been much easier to swallow if the author had not repeatedly attempted to assign G-d as the author. I do not altogether rule out that possibility, and the relative value & merit of the writing defintely stands on its own. Yet, the chunk of salt necessary to take with the writing is that much larger - owing to the insistence that God dictated this to me. I'd bet my mortal soul in fact, that as such, this is not the case.

    Is the book less valuable because of this slight problem? No. But, as one author puts it, we can ascribe the book's origin to one of the following sources:
    1. Messages emanating from the relatively nice, well-trained subconscious nature of the recipient. These well up from the subconscious but are regarded by the recipient as coming from an outside source. Introspective people frequently penetrate into the layer of subconscious recollection and are quite unaware of so doing. Not knowing that they have done this, they regard what they find as unusual, beautiful and important, and then proceed to formulate it into messages, which they expect their friends and the general public to regard as spiritually based. These messages are normally innocuous, sometimes beautiful, because they are a mixture of what the recipients have read and gathered from the mystical writing or have heard from Christian sources and the Bible. It is really the content of their right thinking along spiritual lines and can do no one any harm, but is of no true importance whatsoever. It accounts, however, for eighty-five percent (85%) of the so-called telepathic or inspired writings so prevalent at this time.[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]

    2. Impressions from the soul, which are translated into concepts and written down by the personality; the recipient is deeply impressed by the relatively high vibration which accompanies them, [sensing them to be] of the soul. These are true soul impressions but usually have in them nothing new or of major importance; they are, again, the result of past ages of soul development. This accounts for eight percent (8%) of the writings and communications put before the general public by aspirants today.
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]

    3. Teachings given by a senior or more advanced disciple ... to a disciple under training. These teachings bear the impress and conclusions of the senior disciple and are frequently of value; they may - and often do - contain information of which the recipient is totally unaware. The criterion here is that nothing (literally nothing) will concern the recipient, either spiritually or mentally or in any other way connected with his personality, nor will they contain the platitudes of the religious background of the recipient. They will account for five percent (5%) of the teaching given, but this is in relation to the entire world and the percentage does not refer to some one [spiritual] group, one religious faith or one nation. The recognition of this is of vital importance.

    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]4. Communications from a Master to His disciple. This accounts for two percent (2%) of the entire telepathic receptivity, demonstrated by humanity as a whole throughout the entire world. Western students would here do well to remember that the subjective Eastern student is far more prone to telepathic receptivity than is his Western brother; this has a definite bearing on all the above classifications, which is somewhat humiliating for the Western mystic and [esoteric] student. The World Scriptures emanate from another department of the second ray teaching faculty. In this statement I do not include The Old Testament except such passages as the Twenty-third Psalm and certain passages out of the Prophets, particularly the Prophet Isaiah. The World Scriptures were written for mystics, occupied with beauty, comfort, and encouragement, and were not written for [esotericists].[/FONT]​
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Some of this is perhaps superfluous, but I find the breakdown (as of ~1950) helpful. Perhaps now, after some amount of change in the world, the breakdown between the categories might be more like 81%, 10%, 6% & 3%, but regardless, the point is the same. CWG seems to me to fit into the first two categories fairly clearly, with perhaps some overlap into the third. Is it the direct word of "G-d"? No. But don't let that stop us from taking its message, and it's innovation, to heart. :)

    As for Parts II & III of CWG, I cannot say anything, since I have yet to plow through them. I am much more interested in what might be said in these volumes, however, than in Vol. I. The first, was definitely platitudinous, and for much of it I could only nod and say, yes, if only people saw it this way! :p That's why I think it is nothing revelatory ... and that's probably true of the next two vols, but at least they purport to deal with stuff like aliens and origins, which grabs my attention faster these days than "God says blah blah blah." :rolleyes:

    cheers,

    andrew
    [/FONT]
     
  7. earl

    earl ?

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    Hey Andrew, rather interesting, speculative way to look at so-called "channeling." If one's belief system allows for consideration of a multidimensional view of "being" or "consciousness," allowing for possibility of "realities" that extend from the personal earth-bound level through more ethereal, spiritual or non-material realms to the very heart of it all, then this partioning of origins for what is "channeled" makes sense to me, including likelihood that vast majority of what comes to/through someone is along more earth-bound levels whatever the %'s. I guess to some degree "author" aside, I tend to think the message is more important than the messenger/author in when a message carries some intuitive truth it seems to resonate with the recipient and perhaps nudge them in the direction they need to follow. In fact, if one attempts to listen for an intuitive reverberation from a message it may help them avoid the false, self-aggrandizing messengers that unfortunately travel this territory as well. Always a bit problematic for many reason, though, for someone to say "God told me so." :D
     
  8. Käthe

    Käthe Kitchen Witch

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    I'm going to remember this one, although in my own modified way, because it's pithy and deep.

    "We are not punished for harmful action, but diminished by the doing of it"
     
  9. taijasi

    taijasi Gnōthi seauton

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    Yeah. Gosh, call me narrow-minded, but I just don't think God speaks to us using English. Or any other human idiom. Some would say that's putting a restriction on God's abilities. Not hardly, as John Wayne might say. Nope, I don't think She needs to.

    If our entire life - every thought, every emotion, every action - and all the ripples that these have generated & perpetuated throughout Cosmos ... can somehow just be present, right there, within the heart & mind of God, in a flash! - then why wouldn't it also make sense that the Divine could/would speak to us, in a language beyond words, beyond emotions, and even beyond thoughts? It makes sense to me, because I believe God knows/is the perfection of each of these - or rather, represents to us the greatest that we can accomplish, in each of these aspects of our being.

    So, perfect Love, perfect Understanding, and perfect Empowerment to lovingly serve alongside Deity (versus the human tendency to fall short - of our greatest potential). When I envision, feel, or ponder upon that, I don't get any kind of big booming voice, nor do I see "whitey" (as a friend of mine used to call Him), sitting up there on his lovely throne. I do believe, that even the slightest vibration of the being Christians call `God' would literally shatter most of us to pieces, if we were not carefully prepared for this. And while I have no way of knowing (for certain) whether the author of CWG might have been prepared in this way, I would have to say that if he was writing down any kind of direct communication from `God,' he'd be setting a precedent in human history. That may not sit well with some, but - hey, I just don't think God sits around writing books. We do that. :)

    And darn good ones, sometimes, too!

    andrew
     
  10. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    Why not? He invented it...

    who is putting restriction on whom? ;)

    v/r

    Q
     
  11. taijasi

    taijasi Gnōthi seauton

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    lol ... Invented what? English? rofl Well, yeah, "He" invented the toothbrush - but I was thinking more in terms of ... direct causative relationships. Now, granted, I wasn't sitting there watching the whole process ... as Sanskrit slowly influenced Latin, and the latter gradually morphed into early, medieval and modern English (okay, that was messy, but more or less accurate).

    Still, I think this is the one area where I look to the Catholic Church for something that is otherwise missing - in my understanding of God ... Hierarchy. That God is the author of everything, many can agree, but through what agency. The CWG books, and directly? I say no. Indirectly, of course. What's the causative relation, precisely? Well, my thoughts are in the earlier post, where I say I think it's between the spiritual sub-conscious and super-conscious.

    As far as who restricts whom ... Deity does. Imho and understanding, were it not for restriction (read Sacrifice) ... none of this would exist. And for Deity to manifest within the worlds of form, again - sacrifice is required. I know people who believe and insist that "God could do annnnnnnnnything He wants" (I think that was how she said it :p). And I must simply & politely, disagree. At best, the potential is there. But babbling on about it is pointless. "He" won't. ;) Even God, follows rules. Because He "made" them? Well, not the way I see it. He is them. :)

    I have had some other thoughts on CWG, even before starting the 2nd volume. So, still on vol. I, I'll post those ideas shortly ...

    andrew
     
  12. taijasi

    taijasi Gnōthi seauton

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    The more I reflect on Walsch's CWG (vol. I, so far) ... the more it occurs that this is really a helpful book for pretty much the same reasons most folks have mentioned. Even in this wonderful year, 2006, there are vast numbers of people (myself among them, often enough) who feel - for one reason or another - alienated from their own God. Really this applies to people of quite diverse backgrounds, nationalities, and creeds. Many are aware of the distance they feel; others deny it, or put on a front. Why do we feel so much of a cleavage?

    Answers to the rhetorical question aside, what can we do about it? While some would quip that we should pray more often, I'm not sure that's always the answer. Not meditation, not prayer, and not going to church five nights a week instead of three. Nope, none of these seems to cut it for most people.

    Conversations With God isn't an entirely new approach, but even as I disagree in one breath with the author's claim & insistence that "God told him to write this," I feel Walsch's contribution is important enough to defend this type of writing. And had he simply called it, Inspiring Conversations, let's face it - would it have (had) such appeal? ;)

    Nope. And we all know why. Everyone wants to feel ... aha. Close to God. Loved by God. Known by God. Connected to God. And I think that both Walsch, and the true author of CWG were/are aware of that. Since the work is an inspired one, with Divine enough sources, then to say it is "from God" isn't really deceitful, or dishonest. After all, dozens of televangelists get on the tube every darn day and beg for beaucoups d'argent $$$ for the God who apparently can't balance his own checkbook. If God speaks to them, and we had to pick between that joker and Walsch's God, gee, who would you choose? :p

    Automatic writing is something that's been around a looooooong time. Much longer than the ouija board, the pendulum, and perhaps even tea leaves. Divination, in one form or another, has been practiced by the same Christian clergy which then came to forbid it - as I think I posted somewhere around here. And by now, several million New Agers have discovered that no, if you go poking around on the astral plane, Satan won't come and steal your soul and wreck your chances at eternal salvation. You might get a wee fright or two, and if your spook was 1st class, it might be some time before you go barging into the realms of mystery so boldly. But just because fools rush in (where angels fear to tread) - does not mean that anything that ain't in that there holy bible is verboten. sighhhh .... :rolleyes:

    It's a fine line, and has even been compared with the razor's edge, but I'm not even suggesting we all sit down, put pen to paper, and go to it. Most of us are so inhibited that we'd probably stare at a motionless pen for half an hour. Some of us might get a bit creative - if the muse decides to visit - and that's good. These are the folks in tune with themselves, and comfortable enough to let God speak. And who's to say, just exactly what the source is - of what comes through. It's those who intentionally open themselves to any passing spook, and every astral trickster ... and especially folks who are naturally mediumistic (who number in the millions) - these folks, are those who should exercise caution & prudence before devoting themselves to auto-magic writing.

    No, I think Conversations with God is helpful, because it suggests to us that anyone can sit down, attune/center themselves (always helpful before prayer or meditation), and go into the stillness within - open to the possibility that God might talk back. And though it might seem contrary to my earlier post, I do think that God may speak to us in english, or spanish, or whatever. Is that the true form of the message? No. Is it likely God Almighty, Maker of Heaven & Earth, yadda yadda? Nope. Should we be heartbroken? I dunno. But I'm not. I don't feel insulted, or left out. And I don't think I've missed the boat, as some have rather uncharitably said.

    And here's why. Some think Jesus is God. Fine. Suppose he might be busy? Yeah, but never too busy to talk to - ahhh. That word. ME. And the sooner folks get over it, and realize - that it's not about me, the better. Walsch's book may not reach light years in that direction, but he does help us to get over all this absurdity about hell, and damnation, and the big salvation hangup that keeps so many folks in a death-grip. Poor little kids, afraid to sleep at night, 'cause o' that crap. Man, it just really irritates me sometimes. :mad:

    'Cause kids know better. They're born with it. An innocence, and an understanding. And they love to fly, and imagine, and relate to God. Wasn't it Christ who said, if we do not make ourselves as them, we can forget about Heaven? ROFL. Yeah, and the fearful always have to hang the fate of their "eternal soul" on this stuff. Never considering that he meant - you might live your whole life, and never understand. 'Til you cross over. There ain't no hell. 'Cept the one we've created, right here, right now (and its more unbounded parallel, in the next world). It will go away - when we stop feeding it. Kinda like war. And hate. Those, are hell.

    DrFree, I appreciate what you say about the notion that God is to the Universe, as we are to our body. You fairly well hit the nail on the head. We could draw a thousand parallels, and some are more useful than others to ponder. The one I like, goes something like: Humanity comprises the brain of God, each person being like a brain cell. Lots of variety there, different areas of the brain, with different functions, and some cells being more active - and at different times - than others. And so on. But this is useful to ponder. If I am like a cell in God's brain - then the question of relationship will require me to decentralize a good bit, if I really want to understand how God regards me. Let's see, on a daily basis, how much is it that I sit and concentrate on individual brain cells? :rolleyes:

    Exactly. I just try to eat, sleep, excercise, and eat the proper diet, so that my brain functions well. And I might take some vitamins, or even listen to music, do various types of meditation, if I think that will help. And I bet there's a parallel, with how God goes about things. And one day, we'll know more about it. Bit by bit.

    But the vast gulf, the chasm ... between God and Humanity - is one that must be, and has been, and is being, bridged. And I agree with whoever says that there are those who help to bridge it. There are people who are bridge-builders, and there are Divine Emissaries, Messengers & Prophets. Occasionally, a Teacher of Great Love & Wisdom. And they do show us how to acheive our Salvation, our Liberation from death, ignorance, and illusion. Folks like Walsch represent ... something like, the pre-conscious mind of humanity. The message is coming through for many folks, in such a way that they need to hear it. No more Papal Bull, no more Holy Writ, no more "this is the only authorized word of God, except for next year, when we put out a new version." :rolleyes: And no more insistence that only if you worship in one of these here, recognized, mainstream religions ... might you have some hope of knowing God. Nonsense. Millions of people throughout history have known God within their own heart, with no need for churches, bibles, popes, and so forth. For other folks, that's what floats their boat. And to heck with the high and mighty who will sit and judge others because they are less formal. Go fish. Shoot, the Theravadins look just fine to me!

    [colloquial/editorial mode OFF]

    andrew
     
  13. Amit

    Amit The power of choice

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    Some fascinating view points have been presented through this discussion

    I have read nearly the entire series and have found them to be great source of inspiration. Will we ever know if it was God speaking through Neil or was it Neil himself imparting some wisdom from his subconscious?

    I don't know and we may never know but looking deep inside me and asking questions based upon the ideas presented within the books I would say that I'm happy that books such as these are out there in the public domain. They have helped so many people and you cannot deny that some ideas are beautifully natural and feel that way too.

    They helped me escape from a burdoning religion that was soul destroying and now I feel like I have a personal one on one relationship with God. :)
     
  14. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    Lovely that you found away...and in another you said...
    My simplistic idea is that we are G-d, we are one, we are connected with each other and all. So was he or any other prophet or channeler talking to G-d or to his subconsious...in my simple thinking I ask...is there a difference?
     
  15. Amit

    Amit The power of choice

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    I couldn't agree more!

    I understand peoples reasonings for looking at the material with a pinch of salt, as did I, however, it cannot denied that there is a simplistic beauty to the words within that book. Whether it was the gentleman called Neil or the
    Supreme, it made an impact on me and gave me ideas and new ways of looking at God, the universe, people, the world, Everything!! It literally gave me new eyes...if that was the case for me and millions of others, then it can't be bad?! ;)
     
  16. explorer

    explorer New Member

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    It had the same impact on me.
    If such a thing as absolute truth actually exists, my guess is that this book comes closest to it.
     
  17. modboy

    modboy New Member

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    I like the teachings in conversations with God.. They agree with me on a very deep level.. the circumstances with which I came to read this book and what was going on in my life were truly a miracle (as is all of life). I believe the deeper message of the book is something which the world needs right now.. a spiritual element.

    It was said that neale was having a conversation 'with him self' and in the book he questions him self many times on this matter. The point was that there is no difference between having a conversation with God or yourself because there is no division. God it is said, is your highest thought.. the feeling which triggers your greatest compassion or inspiration. In Neales case, he cried out to the heavens for help and he got a response in a very direct manner.. It seems this response was destined to be heard by a very wide audience. It is stated that Words are only one way of communicating and usually the poorest, as they are so open to misinterpretation. God claims to talk through experience and through feelings ( feelings being the language of the soul )

    Another point i wanted to pick up on was that The book 'personified God' this is another point raised in the book. God claims throughout the book that one should try not to asign any particular form to God as once this happens, humans tend to assign her that form forever more ( female pun used to illustrate point ) In the further series of books, God goes onto say that God has no form or particular personality save the one you give God and God could show up in many forms. I think the trouble people have is that people just cannot hold the extraordinary though that God could actually have a conversation with some one, in the way you would talk to a freind.. sharing a joke.. even the odd profanity.
     
  18. modboy

    modboy New Member

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    were it not for restriction (read Sacrifice) ... none of this would exist. And for Deity to manifest within the worlds of form, again - sacrifice is required.

    In order for sacrafice to be necessary you would have to believe that lack exists.. that there is not enough God to go around.. that energy is somehow limited. God creted the physical manifest world.. so that God could experience life as a reality and not just as a principle. The energy vibration which is all all life knows nothing of lack or sacrafice. The realms of the physical are part of the holy trinity and sublime plan of God to go from realisation to non realisation to realisation eternally..because as has been written, in the absense of that which you are not, that which you are, is not. and this is why we exist.. this is not sacrafice.. this is a plan for salvation and sacrafice is not required.
     

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