Does time exist? Can we travel it?

Discussion in 'Philosophy' started by Rouge47, Nov 30, 2005.

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1.Does time exist? 2.Can we travel it? (Note: Read first post before voting)

  1. Yes and Yes

    12 vote(s)
    41.4%
  2. Yes and No

    8 vote(s)
    27.6%
  3. No and Yes

    5 vote(s)
    17.2%
  4. No and No

    3 vote(s)
    10.3%
  5. Say who da whatty?

    1 vote(s)
    3.4%
  1. Rouge47

    Rouge47 Follower of Christ

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    Oh! Oh! Oh! I just love to talk about time!!! I had an argument once with a fellow student on wether or not time exists. I think it does. He thinks it doesn't. So does time really exist? Yes. Even God says it in the Bible.

    "1000 days on earth is a day in my courts."


    Ooooooooooooh. Aaaaaaaaahhhh.
    Time is also and infinite pattern of a substantial physical elements in which we know as past, present, and future.

    Past- Time that has already happened
    Present- Time that is happining
    Future- Time that has yet to happen

    In reality the present becomes the past as the present also becomes the future. You cannot simply pause the present. That would be unethical. (Im typing like crazy here) The future cannot be waited on because the present is already entering the future. As you read on in this post (or event the thread itself) you are already entering the future. Infact the future is what keeps us running. The future is what we look forward to. We can't just stand around and wait for it to come, because we constantly move into the future. If you were to move out of the future, where would you go? Back to the present? NOO! Because the present has already happened. You would infact be moving into the past because the future is almost like being the present. You move out of the future and go to the past. However, we all know that is physically unethical and that it cannot happen. So how can one travel the length of the time as in the length of the past? You just can't. however, we can travel the length of time as in the length of the future. Because we constantly move into the future (think of the energizer bunny, going and going and going)

    Confused yet? Too bad I ain't stoppin':p

    Now if I were, for some odd reason, in the past, would the present still happen? Yes, because time is infinite in both directions. Only the future travels one way. The past and present can travel both. If I were in the past then the present would still happen because I would be moving, breathing, talking, eating, and so forth. The future would also happen. Remember that there can be no future with out a past or a present. If there is a past and a present then there is a future. Why is that way? Because its a pattern! Past, Present, Future, Past, Present, Future...and so on and so forth. Can we go to the future? Noo! Because once again, ethics. Not only ethics, but also we would be breaking the pattern. We would be skipping the present and the past that will happen in the present after the present passes on to become the future will no longer exist(huh?). Because we what? Disrupted the pattern and left out the past that was the present that was future(ohhh). Therefor we would be erasing time itself if we disrupt the chain of time and re-order the substantial pattern. Why? Because like I said before, No past, no present, no future. Time travel is unethical and it just cannot be done. The space-time continuim doesn't allow it.

    Confused yet? Lucky break...my rists hurt. Post again here in a bit. Be scared of my brain!:p:D

    PJ

    *snores*
     
  2. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Time exists because we say so, because we created it.

    To that extent it is also real.
     
  3. Rouge47

    Rouge47 Follower of Christ

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    True, very true. But remember, just because we created it isn't the only reason why it exists. What we created for time are subtitutes to understand it. But you can't really have a substitute without having the real one, right?:)


    PJ
     
  4. Bandit

    Bandit New Member

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    ok. i am scared of your brain:)

    if we dont have time then how do we know how long it takes to bake a chicken before it burns or we eat it raw?
    how do we know who wins the 1/4 mile drag race?
    how do we know when it is half time at the football game?

    we can be late or we can be on time or we can be early.
    the rings inside of trees tell time.
    the shadows tell time & they travel across the surface of the earth. you can watch them & measure them.

    i think there are all kinds of time & times & many different ways to see & tell time.

    :) & here is your catch 22! :
    He hath made every thing beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end.
    To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
    A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
    A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
    A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
    A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
    A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
    A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
    A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.
     
  5. Rouge47

    Rouge47 Follower of Christ

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    Interesting. Did that come from the Bible or did you come up with that? Bible right? Tell me, it had to of.:D

    PJ
     
  6. Bandit

    Bandit New Member

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    yah. kjv Eccl. chapter 3.

    i am not that clever to come up with that & i am not even going to try to figure out how God made everything, because i dont think it can be done.
     
  7. truthseeker

    truthseeker New Member

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    Oh no, Bandit. I think humankind is coming along just fine with trying to figure out how God made everything. :D
     
  8. truthseeker

    truthseeker New Member

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    Time, past, present, and future are a social construct. It helps us in our division processes.There are languages that do not articulate past, present, and future - possibly because it is one big picture and events that lead to another instead of something that occurred and now is obsolete.

    As wil says, time exists because we created it. Can we exist without time? I believe so. Can we travel time? Yes. Not physically (wouldn't it be against physics to do that?), but spiritually; and we travel time everyday with our language construct. ;)
     
  9. Tao_Equus

    Tao_Equus Interfaith Forums

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    Well I answered NO and YES.......not quite sure why........I just need time to figure it out..............tuo ti erugif ot emit tsuj I........yhw erus etiuq ton.......SEY dna ON derewsna I lleW

    No still makes no sense.......and theres that universe where death is birth and birth is death......we are born arthritic, senile and incontinent and slowly become younger and fitter and healthier. Just when things are looking pretty peachy suddenly we start shrinking away to nothing to be sucked up and absorbed by that woman you met some years back and seemed ever so nice.

    Imagine enduring all the pain of a lifetime in an instant.
    Imagine feeling all the joy, fear, happiness, uncertainty, lust, sorrow etc etc etc.....all in a single instant. We cant. But we do. Its really really weird.

    Time out !!

    Regards

    TE
     
  10. Rouge47

    Rouge47 Follower of Christ

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    Yah, you're right! You make no sense! Hehe:D
     
  11. Arizona

    Arizona New Member

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    What if the pattern wasnt broken because our time has already happened? What if we are just exposing what already took place in the 3D state? For example, in our general way of doing things an event happens and then it is recorded. Like purchasing property. The event takes place and then it is recorded. Similarly the same thing is happening here. All these things aready took place and it is being recorded in the flesh. For example, all flesh will be saved... So all we are doing at all times anyway is living in the past. Which by your explanation is not breaking the pattern. So because it is all the past then even if we go into the future it is still technically the past. Thus the provision for time travel in any direction is met without breaking the pattern.

    Make sense?

    :cool:
     
  12. Dharmakirti

    Dharmakirti New Member

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    i reckon in relative terms time does exsist.....and can we travel it? of course we can...we are traveling it right now... but to go back in time...well it is possible but only by projecting your conscious mind....
     
  13. Awaiting_the_fifth

    Awaiting_the_fifth Where is my mind?

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    I can't believe I never saw this thread before, what a great topic!

    I vote with Tao Equus, No, time does not exist, but yes, we can travel through it.

    My reasoning is like this. Nothing is real, nothing exists, the space time continuum is a deluded way of seeing things, only the mental continuum comes close to being real. (My evidence of this is dreams and hallucinations, things that we see and hear and feel etc, but are not real. I see, hear and feel etc, this world too, so I conclude that it is not real either.)

    So space and time are not real, they are only a part of our delusion, yet we travel through them anyway. We travel foreward at a constant rate through time and we are free to move around at any rate in space.

    Science is aware of 4 dimentions. Length, Width, Depth and Time. It seems illogical that we can traverse the first three at will but are so limited on the fourth.

    So it is my opinion that we can travel through time any way we want, we just have to figure out how, the same way a baby learns how to move through space.

    Does this make sense? It does to me but I suspect that it may not to anyone else.

    Peace
    @5
     
  14. Mason

    Mason Chin Up =)

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    How could anyone vote 'No and Yes'?
    If they think time doesn't exist, how can they 'travel it'?.. If it doesn't exist...hmmmm

    There are some strange people out there, lol :p
     
  15. Dondi

    Dondi Active Member

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    How do you know nothing is real? How do you base what is not real? For you to say nothing is real would imply that you have been in a state where you can tell the difference. (Why couldn't dreams and hallucinations simply be a by-product of an active mind?). By you saying nothing is real, you aren't saying much because you have no reference. Or do you?

    If the physical dimensions are not real, that is in the space-time continuum, then time is not real either, according to your definition. Therefore, time travel is irrelevant. I'm rather confused when you say time doen't exist, yet we can travel through it.

    If all this is an illusion, it is pretty damned convincing. My thumb really didn't slam into the car door, so therefore this excruciating pain I'm feeling is not real, so I just ought to dismiss it and go on???
     
  16. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    Without time, there is nothing. There is no space, no such thing as distance, no span between two points. Without time there is no universe, or multiverse, or cosmos, there is only a singularity. And without time even that is questionable pertaining to its existence.

    Without time, atoms do not vibrate at set "frequencies", hence they do not exist. Energy waves do not move in a frequency pattern, hence it does not exist.

    Without time, there is no matter, and no energy, hence no gravity. There is no distance, since there is nothing to gauge distance by. Reality is patterns, and patterns are kept by time.

    If we were to take the "Big Bang" concept and the "Creation" concept and blend them together, then we must conclude that before either there was nothing. Then "something" happened. What ever IT was, started "TIME".

    Can we leave this linear timeline and jump back? Theoretically possible. Can we jump forward, again theoretically possible, however there is a catch...and I'll get back to that in a moment.

    If we physically go back in time, then we are foreigners to that existence. There would be an earlier version of us already there. And, anything we did to affect that timeline, would devistate the "present" as we know it, once we came back (not just for us as individuals, but everyone else as well). If we jump to the future, it is only one of an infinite number of possible outcomes.

    If we were to go back 10 seconds in time, and meet our selves for example, the disruption in the time line might cause a space time rift, particularly if we were to touch each other (no two objects can occupy the same space at the same time). Oh, there might be some differences between our two versions of self within ten seconds, but not enough to keep us both whole. The result might be annihilation of the "two" with only a blob of what was different within those ten seconds.

    If we were to go back and "kill" our other self? Then we will have changed the timeline in our original present, and would have to stay in the past in order to survive, hence we would have changed our the future, from the original past...

    It is called the "Butterfly effect".

    If we were to jump strictly to the future, then there is no telling what future we would end up in. But that would be the safest bet, because we could always go back to our present...or could we? Do you really think the future versions of us would let us go back to "THEIR past" to change what we think is gone wrong, thus eliminating their present/our potential future, once we got back?

    Even a Cray computer can't calculate all the possibilities and outcomes of a time traveler into the past or into the future, affecting the reality of that time they arrive in. Too many variables.

    There is nothing wrong with suspending time or protecting time in the present (by warping a bubble of real time relative to the point of origin of the traveler, that is compressing time in front and expanding time behind the traveler). But to toy with our personal linear concept of time, has ramifications far beyond the individual doing the traveling.

    The truth is that is the ideal way to travel the stars. But there would be no need or reason to go back in time, or go ahead in time, unless the goal was to modify the outcome, or escape from what is.

    As for time being a human construct. No, time is built into the very rocks, the very elements of the universe (not to mention our own bodily rhythms and brain wave patterns). That time can be altered is also a fact, but only wisely within the confines of our present linear existence.

    My thoughts

    v/r

    Q
     
  17. Penguin

    Penguin † Interfaith's Penguin †

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    Time is only relevant to humans. Animals can't tell the time and just sense the seasons. How do we know the time we perceive is correct? as what was it first gauged from?, the sun and moon are quite accurate but not exact. My thoughts.
     
  18. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    Gee, what is a season? ;)
     
  19. Silverbackman

    Silverbackman Prince Of Truth

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    Have any of you ever smoked pot? If you have you will notice that time seems to go a lot slower. But slower only to you. 10 min. could feel like an hour if you are high on marijuana. The ancient Hindu mystics used to experiment with this and concluded that time is the product of the individual because we are the ones who perceive it. In other words time does exist and is universal but reletive to each individual. At the same time, time is absolute as all humans share one mind (the Brahman). Only to the universal cosmic spirit would time be absolute. I hope that made sense.:)

    As for time travel, as another pointed out earlier we travel into the future all the time. As for quickly traveling in the future, you would need to travel close to the speed of light to feel the effects of time dilation.

    Oh my God I just realized something. Time dilation actually proves that time is product of the individual object. If you travel into the future by going close to the speed of light you are the only one traveling and you alone will reach the future while everyone else around would have already gotten old and died. In this case because time is ultimatley relative it is the invention of the individual. That would mean time may perhaps slow down in reality if you smoke pot. That would mean your brain waves must travel slower into the future.

    Get it?:p

    And that would mean time does exist but its relative to all except God (Brahman, ultimate reality, sum total of Nature, ect.).
     
  20. cavalier

    cavalier New Member

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    It aint just smoking pot. When I was at school my one hour Latin classes used to last at least three hours.


    Time exists, just that our ways of defining, rationalizing and expressing time do not always work.


    I think it wasZeno(Xeno?) of Elea who came up with some paradoxes of time.

    Hercules is having a race against against something slow, for ease let's say a turtle. Hercules starts 10 metres behind the turtle, can he overtake it. We all know that he can and will, but by one form of logic this is acually impossible. If Hercules runs 10 times faster then by the time he has run the 10 metres to catch up with the turtle, the turtle has aleady gone another metre. In the time it takes Hercules to run that metre, the turtle has gone another 10cm. Hercules can never catch up.

    There's another one involving an arrow, if anyone knows it please share.
     

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