Is the Book of Revelation Inspired

Discussion in 'Abrahamic Religions' started by InChristAlways, Dec 19, 2005.

  1. InChristAlways

    InChristAlways New Member

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    Have any of them ever had the view that the manchild in revelation 12 was "Mohammed"? I know there are some christians that view this as Constantine and some as Jesus Christ. What are others view of who/what this is representing, biblically? Thanks.
    Steve

    Reve 12:4 His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth, to devour her Child as soon as it was born. 5 She bore a strong male Child who was to Shepherd all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up to God and His throne.
     
  2. tommy

    tommy New Member

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    Sorry for such a long post, but here's my take on Revelation:

    Here are a few dangers of following religion first rather then God in my opinion. We don’t always know what a doctrine or a council could put in place and that is why I think trust in the Bible and not a specific religion is important. Here is where I think the human race went wrong and why we are now standing on the crest of the great tribulation. God wanted one thing from us, since he created us, our sincere love and devotion and devotion is the key word here. However, we have a supreme leader, God To find the key to Revelations we must realize that much of it is symbolism as it tells us that in the first chapter. Revelation 18:2-3, unfortunately refers to the mass of false religion that will fall prior to the end of the system of things including the group who committed fornication in the last days and the scandal which has cost a billion dollars in defending itself. Revelations is a hard Book of the Bible and we need to learn in my opinion what is the 10 horns and what they represent. We also need to learn what is meant by the beast, the wild beast and Babylon the Great. Jeremiah Chapter 51:49 in the OT refers to Babylon as the ones responsible for the Israelites being “slaughtered” which could be symbolic what group (this might not mean all the individual members) will fall under Babylon the Great since the Bible uses symbolism and the OT and NT ties together.







    I learned that many Catholics are loaded with Bible knowledge, so how could all these members be all wrong? I don’t think that Babylon the Great is just 100% Catholic Religion, but the whole mass of false religion that has been led astray by political and church leaders, nations and anything else that is not 100% complete devotion to God through Jesus as opposed to man. I went on the search engine and typed in holocaust, Catholic religion and WWII because it has often been said that the Catholic Religion is the whore of Babylon the Great and a book came up below you can read, its free. Then I learned this, During WWII, pope Pius VII, remained silent during the killing of the Jews and God has instructed through Moses that “Thou shall not kill”. It was the ordinary Catholics that helped hide the Jews out of compassion for their fellow man and the pope, a human leader, turned his back to the biggest crime ever committed. However, millions were killed and only thousands were saved. Rev 17:3-7 discusses the Beast (false religion) in Scarlet Red which could represent in my personal opinion, the blood of the millions killed when “nation went against nation” in WWII by those who were responsible and/or supported it. In Fascist Italy, on February 11, 1929, the Lateran Treaty was signed by Mussolini making Vatican City a sovereign state. Pope Pius XI claimed that he had “given Italy back to God, and God back to Italy”. Then six years later in October of 1935 Italy invades Abyssinia, claiming that is was “a barbarous land which still practices slavery” which was not condemned by the Vatican.


    On Showtime we saw “our Fathers” and about Cardinal Bernard Law ending up getting a promotion after all of the cover up in the priest sex scandal. This also has happened at other religions like the Protestants. The Smith’s Bible Dictionary published in the early 1900’s says “Babylon (or Rome) in another form, the Papal despotism, a compound of Paganism and Christianity”. OK, then what defines paganism? Who is St. Patrick and St. Valentine and why don’t we read their names in the Bible? Is prayer directed to Saints paganism and do they get heard since it is not directed through Jesus to the Almighty One? As always, I do not know the answers, but am putting these issues up to share my thoughts in what I read in the Bible for purposes of debate and please be discerning about some of these sensitive topics that could be off and in some regards should be off, as like most of you I am a Bible student, that’s all. What are the ten horns referring to in Revelations? “Here is where the intelligence that has wisdom comes in: The seven heads mean seven mountains, where woman sits on top. And there are seven kings: five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet arrived, but when he does arrive he must remain a short while”. Revelations 17:9,10. Both terms are used scripturally to refer to governmental powers (Jeremiah 51: 24, 25: Daniel 2:34, 35, 44, 45).Six world powers are mentioned as having an impact on the affairs of God’s people: Egypt, Assyria, Babylon,, Medo-Persia, Greece. Of these, five had already come and gone by the time John received Revelation, whereas Rome was still very much a world power. This corresponds well with “five have fallen, one is”. But what of the “other” that was due to come? By the 19th century the Anglo-American world power was added. An angel explained to John, And the wild beast that was but is not, it is also itself an eight king, but springs from the seven, and it goes off into destruction Rev 17:11. How do we know that beasts are governments? Certain world powers of history appear directly in the Bible record as nations. Egypt, the serpent and also the bull, as well as Assyria usingthe bull. Medo-Persia used the Eagle. Athens used the Owl. Rome, the Eagle. In addition, Great Britain is designated by the Lion. The U.S., the Eagle. From the most remote times China has symbolized by the dragon and Russia the Bear.





    The symbolic scarlet-colored wild beast “springs from” the seven heads; that is, it is born from, or owes its existence to, those heads of the original “wild beast”…out of the sea”, of which the scarlet-colored wild beast is an image. What does this all mean? Well the Anglo-American power was the ascended head. The previous six heads had fallen and the position of the dominant world power had passed to this dual head and was now centered in it. This seventh head,as the current representative of the line of world powers, was the moving force in establishing the League of Nations and is still the major promoter and financial support of the UNITED NATIONS. Therefore, in symbol, the scarlet color wild beast, the eighth king “springs” from the original seven heads. Looked at like this, the statement that is sprang from the seven harmonizes well with the earlier revelation that the wild beast with two horns like a lamb (the Anglo-American World Power, the seventh head of that original wild beast) urged the making of the image and gave it life Rev. 13:1, 11, 14, 15. Therefore, the United Nations is also itself designed to look like a world government. At times it has acted like one sending people to war. As John soon learns, the time will come when the UN will act with considerable authority and call a war that “goes off into destruction”.



    Is this God’s war at Armageddon and that Babylon the Great will only be remembered at that time rev. 16:1, 14, 19. “And the ten horns that you saw mean ten kings, who have not yet received authority as kings one hour with the wild beast. These will battle with the Lamp, but, because he is Lord of lords and King of Kings, the Lamb will conquer them. Also those called and chosen and faithful with him will do so”. Rev. 17:12-14. The ten horns are all political powers that presently hold sway on the world scene and that support the image of the wild beast (United Nations). The irony here is that it was the League of Nations and the United Nations organization that was supposed to preserve world peace. God has purposed that His Kingdom under Jesus Christ will shortly replace all these kingdoms Daniel 7:13, 14, Matthew 24:30 25: 31-33, 46. Of course there is nothing the rulers of this world can do against Jesus Christ himself. He is in heaven. However, soon the time sill come for God’s Kingdom to “crush and put an end to all these kingdoms Daniel 2:44. Now we know the nations will not succeed against Jesus. Certainly the immense material wealth of Babylon the Great will not save her. The vision shows that when the wild beast (nation) and the ten horns vent their hatred on her they will strip off her royal robes and all her jewelry. They will plunder her wealth, make her naked, shamefully expose her real character. The one billion in priest molestation suits by all religions, not just the big one, could be some of these first pangs. The UN will give sanction to the destruction of false religion.



    So in the end, the wide spread doubt may empty the church's of mass false religion leaving the religions dead and perhaps not the members who then follow true Christianity (The Revelation), Jesus’ teachings and they don’t follow doctrines, praise church leaders, and give up the belief that when you are dying in war you are dying for God. Not true, in war we die for a nation and not God. Yes, the nations will use the scarlet-colored wild beast, the United Nations, in destroying Babylon the Great. Thus, the ancient harlot will come to her complete end. “and the women whom you saw means the great city that has a kingdom over the kings of the earth” Rev. 17:18. This is the mystery of the great harlot and the scarlet colored beast. Peace, tommy
     
  3. Ruhan

    Ruhan New Member

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    The book of Revelation was excluded from the earliest NT canons. Many of the church fathers believed it to be an early 2nd century apocalyptic work which was not inspired. Even Eusebius doubted it's authenticity and it was not until the end of the 4th century that it was becoming widely accepted.
     
  4. tommy

    tommy New Member

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    Hey Ruhan:

    Welcome to CR with your first post. Revelation is the exciting climax to the Bible. There are so many ties to the Old Testimate that it is the fitting conclusion to the Bible.

    It so exciting that it was written by Jesus' closest companion John in around 95 AC, who John trusted to take care of his mother when he was dying. I really don't see anyway that it could not be inspired scripture. It is an exciting finish to the Bible that has had great meaning to me to get out of Babylon the Great Rev. 18:4 that really changed the direction of my spiritual well being. Would it seem appropriate with the Bible to conclude with the short Chapter in James.

    Revelation delivers a strong message to get out of mans teachings, customs and traditions. It was written by John man, who else would qualify to pen the last chapter of the Bible. Some religions (and some Church fathers) might not like the message to get out, but it is my favorite Chapter in the Bible and I value how it has given me direction and value the message from the Father in Heaven.

    We also hear Jesus speaking through an Angel to John. What a chilling end to God's inspired words. Oh well, I am at a Starbucks in a Casino in the middle of the Nevada desert and wanted to check this thread. Peace, tommy
     
  5. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    in revelation 18;4 it tells Gods people to get out of Babylon the great (the world empire of false religion) Happy is the man who reads, and happy those who listen to the words of this prophecy and heed what is written in it. For the hour of fulfillment is near."—Revelation 1:1-3, New English Bible (1970)
     

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