The Rapture

Discussion in 'Christianity' started by iBrian, Oct 17, 2003.

  1. Rev Wayne

    Rev Wayne Member

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    I don't take a dispensationalist view of end-time events. A literal 7-year tribulation is neither literal nor figurative. It is (1) a literal translation of a day as a year, and a week as seven years, for the first 68 weeks of Daniel; (2) a figurative translation of the 69th week as a very fluid, undetermined "Church Age," or "Dispensation of Grace"; (3) and it is then followed by another strictly literal 7-year period, or "week" of "'The' Great Tribulation.

    It is characterized in part by a strictly literal rendering of "Kingdom of God" and "Kingdom of heaven" as two different things. This claim is made despite Jesus' own words, "I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God." (Matthew 19:23-24)

    It is further characterized by an opinion that the institution of sacrifice was God's intended plan, and had the Jews been obedient, the plan would not have had to be "interrupted" by the Gospel. And the ushering in of the "Kingdom Age" will once again re-institute sacrifices.

    So if this is what is meant by a "literalist view of end-time events," then thanks but no thanks, I'll have to pass on it.
     
  2. kenod

    kenod "to live is Christ"

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    Another interesting approach to the Rapture, is the type Jesus gave in Luke 17:29-30

    But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom
    it rained fire and brimstone from heaven,
    and destroyed them all.
    Even thus shall it be
    in the day when the Son of man is revealed.



    Here we see that Lot and those who believed were taken out of that Gentile city before the fire fell. We are all just holding our breath waiting for the (nuclear) fire to fall, and the earth to be melted with fervent heat.

    2 Peter 3:10
    But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night;
    in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise,
    and the elements shall melt with fervent heat,
    the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.






     
  3. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    guess that means the Bible is in error concerning Revelation. However, of ALL the books of the Bible, there is only one that states not one word will be added or taken away...so of all the books of the Bible, it seems to me Reverend, that this particular book should be taken to "heart". I don't think God is going to care much for what "we" think things should be, when push comes to shove.

    He certainly doesn't express it in the Book of Revelation. In fact, He pretty much says that by that time it is too damn late...

    v/r


    Q
     
  4. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    I'm not sure "WE" is the correct phrase enhancer. You may think so, but I wouldn't put it past the majority in such fashion. You might be surprised.;)

    v/r

    Q
     
  5. kenod

    kenod "to live is Christ"

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    pluralis majestaticus, Q :D
     
  6. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    Smart A** (LOL) :D
     
  7. kenod

    kenod "to live is Christ"

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    Not too much LOL at my age … wouldn’t want a royal wee!

    Enough jollity, back to the topic. I thought your comments on the book of Revelation were spot on.

    Regarding the fire: Rev 13 seems to indicate that it is of human origin. Two beasts are mentioned, and the first appears to be Rome - either ancient Rome or the Vatican. I think it is the latter.

    BTW, I’m not against Catholics - I know many are Christians, and John-Paul was a lovely guy, and Benedict … well, is Benedict! The problem is that Luther’s criticism remains valid - a lot still believe that the church will save them, rather than their individual faith - and, yes, the same criticism can be made of all denominations. It is not the people, it is the organisation.

    If the fire is of human origin, and comes down from heaven, it seems possible it refers to nuclear weapons, which are most often delivered by air. I may not see it in my lifetime, but I doubt that my children will not see a nuclear war.

    If it is so, then I believe God will take His children up before the fire falls.
     
  8. Rev Wayne

    Rev Wayne Member

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    Could you elaborate on this? I didn't quite see what point you were making.
     
  9. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    I find myself in total agreement with you on this issue of the church saving people. It ain't gonna happen. Surprised? ;) However, my reasoning is simple. The church is made of fallible people, and in the "recent" past, has shown that it is capable causing much more harm than help to people, either by its action, or in-action (which is just as bad).

    You know, we (the world) ought to thank God that John-Paul chose to follow God in heart, mind and soul. He could easily have decided to go into politics and become a leader of nation(s) secularly...he had that kind of charisma we have seen in others, in the past.

    As far as the rapture is concerned, I have no opinion on it one way or the other, really. If it is real, then "believers" have an escape route from things that are about to happen on earth. If it is not, then life if going to be pretty harsh while we still have it.

    I never quite understood what happens to those that do not get "raptured", after the 'seven' years of troubles...There is supposed to be a thousand years of peace...does that mean the survivors live for 1000 years, or do we live the life spans that we currently "enjoy", raise new babies and continue on?

    To the Reverend: My comment about Revelation being in error was sarcastic (sorry). The more I see today (the more I experience), the more certain I am that Revelation is true to the last word. It is just a matter of time. I don't have a clue as to when that time will ultimately come, nor do I care to hazard a guess (I think that would be an exercise in futility).

    But I see the "insanity" and incomprehensible thinking going on, not in everyday Joe Citizen, but in the people "in power" and "influence" throughout the world. And I see that everyday Joe Citizen refuses to stand up and say 'Enough'.

    Man is either too complacent, or cowardly...I haven't quite figured out which yet.

    anyway, I'm rambling, so I'll stop here.:eek:

    v/r

    Q
     
  10. Faithfulservant

    Faithfulservant Well-Known Member

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    Loved Ones.

    If you are reading this and millions of people just vanished off the face of the earth.. you missed the boat... luckily there will be another one in roughly 7 years time.. You might know the Captain.. His name is Jesus Christ. He waited as long as He could but, sadly, you waited too long to ask for the ticket. (Its free btw)

    The next 7 years will be rough...but there is hope! You can still ask for a ticket and His Word is the best you will find in the world these days. There is an instruction manual, Its called the Holy Bible and the book of Revelation should help you through these terrible times.. it'll be your most accurate calendar from now on.

    I should warn you about the bad man.. His purpose is to deceive many and it will seem like hes the savior of the world but its a lie.. theres only one Savior and thats Jesus Christ.

    Hope to see you soon!

    Imagine that one day.. this letter or one like it might be real.
     
  11. taijasi

    taijasi Gnōthi seauton

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    What if the rapture is a surge of Love, that we find ourselves feeling for all others - our Brothers and Sisters of every faith and nation, everywhere in this wonderful world? Perhaps, as the years go by, this growing Spirit of understanding and inclusivity, will increase and blossom - and will finally come to an intensity and a crescendo as none of us can imagine. Perhaps ...

    Suppose, for a moment, that even the leaders of Western nations will be moved and affected by this outpouring of Love. Briefly, if only long enough to realize what has occurred, they shall understand how in truth, their Brothers in the Middle East are no different at heart. And likewise, even the dictators of the East, and those everywhere who have grown so accustomed to allowing hatred in their hearts, will know Love. Suppose ...

    During this crescendo and surge of Love, it may come as no surprise - to many of us - that the real progress is made by all those everywhere in this world, who have learned to let in the Light, and who also work with increased empowerment. These are politicians, businessmen, educators, artists, scientists and humanitarians ... of every religious background, or none at all. Many of the world's spiritual leaders, too, will contribute their gifts, to the combined effort of all of these inspired Workers.

    The diehard materialist, and skeptic, and atheist, will know along with the hardened criminal (including the tyrants who rule the nations) ... that Love has not left Humanity. All people, everywhere, will feel and know HOPE, even if, in the days that follow, many will sink back into the morass of desperation and darkness than now imprisons our collective spirit.

    But when all is said and done, no one will have disappeared from the face of the earth, unless through nuclear holocaust. No one will have instantly vaporized or vanished, except by the annihilation and destruction that our leaders are so skilled at planning. And for certain, many will reach the next world a bit disappointed, or confused as to what went wrong. Perhaps for some it was a misunderstanding of the facts, thus inefficient or incorrect action. For others, it was failure to act on the knowledge they had acquired. But whatever our fate, individually or collectively, even after the destruction of civilization itself (again), there will be those who know the mantram well, and will chant it, `All is well, all is well, all is well.'

    So the rapture, will it come? It will. It is here. And there is a crescendo, as energies increase and reach every dark corner of the Earth. Heck, it's okay to imagine a better place, and to want things to be better - so that people get along and work for the common Good. It's more than okay, it's the way it's supposed to be. And that's up to us.

    The Rapture is here. Can you tell? Never, have I been so sincere, or meant that so literally. If you can smile ... ahh, well then, we're on the same page.

    Love and Light,

    andrew
     
  12. Cage

    Cage Spirit Guided

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    Beautiful sentiment in this post, Andrew.

    If only...

    Much Love,
     
  13. JustifiedByFaith

    JustifiedByFaith Contending For The Faith

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    Dear Quahom1,

    No opinion? Ahhhh...it's ok, share just a little of your opinion on this would ya?;):)
     
  14. BlaznFattyz

    BlaznFattyz Well-Known Member

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    has anyone written or thought about writing a letter in case you are raptured for those left behind?
     
  15. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    I don't know about the rapture. Some say it will come without notice, others say the "church" (chosen), will know just like Noah knew when the rains were coming).
     
  16. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    Faithful Servant did, and posted it on CR (just can't remember what thread).

    v/r

    Joshua


    oops, it's on this thread (about 7 posts up) :eek:
     
  17. donnann

    donnann Well-Known Member

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    I figure whenever its going to happen its going to happen.
     
  18. donnann

    donnann Well-Known Member

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    the word rapture meaning being caught up.
     

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