What is your belief?

Discussion in 'Christianity' started by wil, Apr 26, 2006.

?

Check whatever you agree with....

  1. The bible is infallible 100% truth

    7 vote(s)
    43.8%
  2. The bible contains allegory, metaphor and myth

    11 vote(s)
    68.8%
  3. When it is the bible v. other sources bible is correct.

    5 vote(s)
    31.3%
  4. Due 2 the way the bible was compiled and edited there are issues with taking it literally.

    9 vote(s)
    56.3%
  5. The bible is a historically accurate document.

    5 vote(s)
    31.3%
  6. Jesus is our saviour by dying on the cross for our sins.

    8 vote(s)
    50.0%
  7. Jesus is our saviour by teaching us the way and what is possible for us to achieve.

    10 vote(s)
    62.5%
  8. The Trinity

    9 vote(s)
    56.3%
  9. Jesus started human and became the Christ through understanding.

    5 vote(s)
    31.3%
  10. God and I (you) are one.

    6 vote(s)
    37.5%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    This is the Christian Board, what is the diversity of those that consider themselves christians, ie followers of the teachings of Jesus?

    Including those that don't feel they fit under christian-ity?

    While we all have a commonality...our elder brother and wayshower, we have a variety of understanding, some of which makes it difficult to discuss intracies of our faith without blood boiling.
     
  2. lunamoth

    lunamoth Episcopalian

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    The Bible is our sacred history, a record of the earliest Christians' experience of God among us, and a thin place where God still speaks to us through sacrament and prayer.

    Jesus Christ came to reconcile us to God through His life, death, and resurrection. He changed our relationship to the law and opened our relationship with the Father.

    Christians are followers of Christ who die to their self, are born again in Christ, and carry out His mission of reconciliation in the world. IMO this means spreading His love through healing words and compassionate actions, as well as proclaiming the good news "Fear not! God is with us."

    My 2 c. :)

    peace,
    luna
     
  3. Faithfulservant

    Faithfulservant New Member

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    most of us ARE aware of the disagreement you are having with Brian.. Why dont you let him run HIS board the way he sees fit? conform to the rules like everyone else has and if you are unhappy about it... realize that this is not a democracy and you dont get a vote on it. lol
     
  4. truthseeker

    truthseeker New Member

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    What a terrible thing to say! Don't you think that is between the two of them?
     
  5. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    notta problem my brother...is there some reason we don't wish to find the scope, the breadth of those that call themselves Christian? And the nature of the Christian Board? In a thread I didn't start we find that this site has a disproportionate number of some religions compared to the world and western averages...

    I wondered the same regarding the Christian Board....as to what denomination and how conventional, unconventional thought was.

    Thank you TS for the support, however FS does have a point that I have made my voice overly public, hence this thread got lumped into the fray. My timing was inappropriate to be valuable to the results.

    edit and interesting note....someone italicized particular questions in the poll...it twas not I, what does it mean when someone decides something should be italicized?? Note, this is an observation, not a complaint...please leave as it was changed....hmmm editorial modifications to text...how appropriate for the discussion!
     
  6. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    lol Many pardons....twas me that italicized things by answering the poll...I stand corrected...

    I did do that to myself...once again my ignorance stands out!

    Whose quote was that, "Better to keep mouth shut and be thought a fool, than open it and remove all doubt" ?? or something to that effect...
     
  7. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    "chuckle" ;) no one modified your original post withought prior notice...that wouldn't be right.

    v/r

    Q

    edit: Wil it appears that you posted a "duplicate thread", that is why one was removed. IF that is in-correct, then please contact Brian with your concerns.
     
  8. path_of_one

    path_of_one Embracing the Mystery

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    See the denominations thread- didn't want to repeat! Basically, I'm with Lunamoth. And I think the saving grace of Christ is both in His teachings and in His death and resurrection. Indeed, I don't really see a difference between the two. His death and resurrection were the evidence of the validity of His teachings- if He had merely said to turn the other cheek, for example, but had never been tested to see if He would live His teachings, we would not have had evidence of His perfection and divinity. If He had merely promised His followers eternal life, but never shown them that God would indeed grant it, we would have no real evidence that He was any different from any number of other prophets/sages. His life, death, and resurrection were the embodiment of the Truth of His teachings.
     
  9. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    He lived as He taught. And He won. So can we all, if we choose to follow His ways.

    v/r

    Q
     
  10. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    Only 9 responses however at this juncture...

    We know the quotes about facts and statistics....

    But the current poll presents interesting demographics among our christians...
     
  11. YNOT

    YNOT Zen philosopher

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    What interesting results for this poll. Thank you for directing me to it wil.

    Namaste
     
  12. NoName

    NoName New Member

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    Although I belive in alot that the bible has to say I think tacking to littarly can be dangers sometimes. It has bin tranlated so many times and there are even hints that Jesus him self is useing a medafore, like for example when he said "I will destory the tempal and rebuild it three days latter" the people who herd this thoght he was talking about the jewish tempal. We can now see he was talking about him self and his death on the cross and coming back to life three days latter. when he said destory tempal he was talking about his body. the bible calls the body a tempal.
     
  13. Dondi

    Dondi Active Member

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    I had problems selecting the last one for the reason a lack of clarity. I believe we can become one with God when we become connected with Him through Christ (both in His teachings and in His vicarious sacrifice). It is not a given.

    I agree with the historical aspect of the bible, but there are allegorical components as well. For example, Babylon can be a literal place in certain passages, but can be a ideological state in some other passages.

    Jesus was always the Christ, even before coming to earth as a human.
     
  14. Dor

    Dor Bible Thumper

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    There were a couple these hard to answer cause the way they were worded....such as 2nd one I can see some metaphor but no myth.
     
  15. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    I thought the survey only allowed one response (e.g. one question to answer of all the questions). If that was wrong, then I am not the only one who thought so. Therefore your statistics are skewed.

    my thoughts

    v/r

    Q
     
  16. path_of_one

    path_of_one Embracing the Mystery

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    Yes, most of these are really open to interpretation. I voted, but I doubt the statistics are showing what I really meant. For example, I believe that, when read with the Spirit, the Bible is infallible 100% truth. But I don't mean that the message I get is the same one you will get. Yet if we are in the Spirit, our particular message/meaning from a passage will be truth and what is needed at that moment. The Bible is truth when it is a conversation between humans and God. People can muck it up by interpreting it incorrectly, which is a result (I think) of blindly following other people's beliefs without personal study, reflection, and most importantly- connection to and communion with God and Jesus Christ through the inspiration of the Spirit.

    Seemingly inconsistently, I also chose that the Bible contains allegory, metaphor, and myth. But only if "myth" is defined the way it is in anthropology: a sacred narrative.

    I also chose that the Bible is problematic if merely interpreted literally. Surely no one interprets those passages in Song of Solomon literally- even the literalists know some of the Bible is metaphoric.

    Others I didn't check because they were too vague. For example, that God and I (you) are One. One in what way? How? I think we are, and we aren't (I'm more or less panentheist). I don't think all of us make up God, or that God was split into a gazillion little bits to experience being or something, but I do think each of us carries within us the divine spark, given to us by God. God is all creation, and something More. The whole Being and Ground of Being and Beyond Being thing...
     
  17. taijasi

    taijasi Gnōthi seauton

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    (So much for succinct, lol ... and I was even trying to be this time! :p )

    In my better moments, I aspire to live in such a way as I believe a true follower of Christ should live, specifically, as an active altruist, a person of good character and high morals, and as a wielder of the force of Goodwill. Other times, I give embodiment to perhaps the other extreme in our dual human nature. But most of the time I can be found wandering the samsara somewhere in between. Thus I hesitate to presume to claim the honor of “being a Christian,” so I will comment in due proportion:

    I agree with you, path_of_one, regarding the infallible, 100% truth part and the Bible. I would go on to say that other, more accurate, and more recent writings exist, of greater value & relevance for some people when it comes to the spiritual journey. The Bible sufficiently serves for some, while for others, the Koran, Kabbalah/Zohar, Adi Granth, Pali Canon, Zend Avesta, or Bhagavad Gita (Mahabharata) are more helpful and appropriate. Plenty of people derive Wisdom, guidance, inspiration, meaning, and a sense/call to Purpose in Life from each of these sources. Acknowledging this does not make me any less Christian, for in my better moments (referenced above), I am not confused, misled, or uncertain about the presence of Truth in each of these writings.

    Thus, allegory, metaphor & myth being present in the Bible, as in most (all?) of these other writings, is a good and necessary thing. This helps to reach people who would otherwise be clueless (pretty much all of us). That said, I am not one of these people who simply believes stories like the Creation Myth, the tale of Jonah, and the episode with Noah’s Ark should be viewed as allegory. I would say that the deepest wisdom of the Holy Bible (and other Sacred Scriptures) is arrived at only when the proper keys of Symbology and Symbolism are applied. Is there anything “between the lines?” You betcha.

    Is this “hidden meaning” contrary to Christ’s Mission, the Living Testament which was his LIFE, and the chief message of the Bible, The Sermon on the Mount? Umm, no. That’s just the point. The path of purity, aspiration and service (plus prayer/meditation, and study/contemplation), when pursued though the earliest stages, leads naturally to the unfoldment of the abilities, and to the acquisition of the psycho-spiritual keys, which allow one to enter into closer Presence with The Christ and His Church, with all the Mystical connotations and literal significances which go with that phrase.


    I am convinced from my experience in life, that the Buddha’s final instructions to His pupils, is not contradictory to Christ’s own instructions to His. Specifically, the Buddha says:
    Seek ye for that which is permanent, and work out your salvation with diligence.​
    I would find myself in shock & horror to learn that the Divine Justice (which is the antidote to wrath, and never a synonym) that has always maintained the balance of this Universe … might ever be supplanted by arbitrariness and unaccountability. We teach children to be accountable for their actions, i.e. responsible for their own behavior, from the earliest age! And we reward or punish them along the way, but not as a buildup for the removal of their greatest Responsibility and Accountability of all – which is for themselves, this being granted to them as they move into adulthood. And whether they like it or not (!), I might add. ;)

    Last I recall, it was my own struggles to accept Responsibility which produced the chaos & disorder in my life, and pushing it farther away does not seem to be what God wants of me. He does not stand, beckoning me to abnegate that which forms the very fiber of my Being!!! Rather, with relevance to this survey, He points to the last four statements and smiles, though reminding me that each statement is as limiting as it is revealing.

    But if words, beliefs, even prayers count vitally in the buiding and development of character (hence Salvation, or Destiny) … then they are but a small percentage, where actions determine our actual tomorrow. Faith demonstrates through all of these, yet if there is no action, faith will not save the drowning man.

    This is just how I see things, nothing more, nothing less.

    In Love, Light, and mutual Respect,

    taijasi
     
  18. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    definitions and polls are tricky things....yes you could check as many blocks as you wished...one or ten or anywhere inbetween....I tried to compose it so we could choose typically one or the other...ie the bible is 100% accurate or contains... is the source...or has been modified to be questionable....not an easy task...

    If this is invaluable...someone could possibly create one more valuable...I was just trying to glean the range of Christians here...seems mainstream is shifting...

    as for definitions...I agree most will not agree with #3 or #4 but will agree with 1a and 2....


    myth n.1. a. A traditional, typically ancient story dealing with supernatural beings, ancestors, or heroes that serves as a fundamental type in the worldview of a people, as by explaining aspects of the natural world or delineating the psychology, customs, or ideals of society
    b. Such stories considered as a group: the realm of myth.

    2. A popular belief or story that has become associated with a person, institution, or occurrence, especially one considered to illustrate a cultural ideal: a star whose fame turned her into a myth
    3. A fiction or half-truth, especially one that forms part of an ideology.
    4. A fictitious story, person, or thing
     
  19. taijasi

    taijasi Gnōthi seauton

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    Ah shoot! I think I mucked this part up, and your myth definitions post helped me to see it, Wil. What I meant to say was that I agree that the Bible contains allegory, myth and metaphor, in addition to such direct accounts as the Synoptic Gospels. I don't think anyone would be confused about the meaning of `myth' in this case. The life's work of Joseph Campbell, with contributions from folks like Bill Moyers, has certainly helped us to gain a new appreciation for mythology (both oral and written storytelling) as a medium for the conveyance of even the most profound religious teachings. :)

    Clearly the Gospels and other books of the New Testament give us literal accounts of the life, ministry, and final days of Christed Jesus. I do not question the historicity of this presentation of the life of Christ, but I certainly do question the "infallible accuracy!" I am of the opinion that large portions of the true Bible are missing, and at least half of what exists should be relegated to the dustbin (for reasons of non-relevance to our practical lives, while certainly they are of historical and anthropological interest). The "proper keys of Symbology and Symbolism" which are necessary to unlock deeper meanings in the Bible are hidden in plain sight. Anyone who simply continues to ponder familiar or favorite scriptural passages in an effort to understand his or her own life's situation, for example, is already using one of the most valuable of these keys! ;)

    Color, iconography, ritual, position/placement, light, beauty, geometry, mathematics, rhythm, movement, and sound ... all provide additional tools which can assist us, whether these be conveyed & observed through art, liturgical service, or contemplative meditation.

    I realize that the focus of the survey is about beliefs, Wil, but something helpful (even vital) that I think might be included would be a question or two about (one's feelings on) the importance or type of liturgy/worship across the different forms of Christianity. Easily that could be a survey or thread of its own. Equally, a question about the importance of belonging to a faith community, since in some cases this will overlap with (or substitute for) liturgy/worship. Quakers/Society of Friends, for example, might fit into the latter category, with their `Meetings.'

    Respectfully,

    taijasi
     

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