I dont get it....

Discussion in 'Islam' started by NoName, May 30, 2006.

  1. Zaakir

    Zaakir part of the ummah

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    do christians therefore think there were 2 gods before jesus or was the holy spirit born at the same time of jesus?but i thought he was there to conceive jesus...in christianity (god 4give me for saying those words..)...god conceive a child ?what the hell!?
     
  2. mansio

    mansio Well-Known Member

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    Zaakir

    Have you never heard that God has only to say "Be!" and it is?

    Nothing is impossible to God, and sometimes what God does is incomprehensible to man.
     
  3. Zaakir

    Zaakir part of the ummah

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    so where there 2 gods before jesus..and was adam therefore gods sone...as god also said be, and he (adam) was?
     
  4. BlaznFattyz

    BlaznFattyz Well-Known Member

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    why would an all powerful, invisible holy god in heaven need to make anything? wouldnt god be self-sufficient? why would he need to make the trees, grass, flowers, oceans, animals, clouds, sky, moon, sun, that we see thru our eyes as beautiful, and make food that tastes good to us? and on top of that make something that is sinful like humans? maybe there is an attribute of god that made these things for himself to enjoy and for others to enjoy, and god wants to love and be loved back in return. to me, that part of god that makes things beautiful for himself and humans and wants to teach us, walk with us, know and love us, and for us to know and love him back, and to save us from our sinful nature--is that part of god that is eternally the son. that part of us that compels us to seek him out and to do what he asks and assists us in our spiritual walk with god so we might please him is that attribute of god that is the holy spirit.
     
  5. Zaakir

    Zaakir part of the ummah

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    so the holy spirit is the father?the holy spirit is seperate yeah...as jesus is seperate from the father, these 3 make up 1 god, before jesus therefore there was 1 god,,,where did the holy spirit come from to be god?
     
  6. Zaakir

    Zaakir part of the ummah

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    So the holy spirit is part of the father..thought all three were separate, but one as a whole…?there was 1 god in the old testament, and three in the new…so was the HS created at same time as jesus? In Christianity, doesn’t it matter what sins you do…because jesus has saved you…?if I comit murder…its ok to god, because He sent His son to be crucified, so that I didn’t have to get punished?…wheres the logic? If you don’t think this is true, then what does it mean by, jesus saved our sins?because cleerly, he didn’t if you get sins for killing someone, lets think though,…previous sins…were you alive before jesus?no…no previous sins…the natural thing…so that can be saved you believe…so jesus saves you because your ancestor ate an apple, which you think everyone is born with, but you kill someone…its ok…because god has saved you through His son…to save us from our sins, not save us from natural sin…save us from sins…therefore everyone who believes jesus is god must be sinless…what an easy religion to follow!when I was in it, I got told there were so many things you got sinned for…but obviously you don’t,,,,because jesus has alredy saved you…god may aswell just put us in heaven should He if were going to die sinless…cos that’s where we would go…I wonder if Christianity was thought through really?
     
  7. BlaznFattyz

    BlaznFattyz Well-Known Member

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    all always existed eternally as one god. they are all attributes of one god. because god created man, his way in communicating with man personally is with these attributes that are manifested in a way so we may know him. kinda of like how you are one person, yet you can have three attributes. you may be a father to a son, you may be a husband to a wife, and you may be a son to your father. all three different roles you have, communicating and living in different ways in these roles, yet you are one person. now with god he is able to send these different manifestations of himself to us so he may retain holy righteousness in heaven by which man is judged, he may love us by sending his son to die for us so he could conquer death and give us a way to be reborn and enter heaven, and to send the spirit so that when the son went back to glory with the father, the spirit continues the work of god--teaching, saving, healing, etc for the glory of god.
     
  8. Zaakir

    Zaakir part of the ummah

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    bur me being a father son and husband means i am me, god was divided in your eyes into 3 actual forms.was there a doublet before the trinity then if the HS existed always?why did god have to communicate with us by Himself, when there are prophets?
     
  9. BlaznFattyz

    BlaznFattyz Well-Known Member

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    the point i was getting across is your different roles interact with people differently . you talk to your father out of respect and humbleness as his son. your role as husband is loving and protecting your wife, having kids, going out on dates, planning your future. your role with a son is raising him up, teaching him, punishing him, being a role model.
    these three different attributes of one person do not divide the person into three people, but shows off the different parts of ones being. that is just a concept to start with in understanding the nature of god. it is by no means the full explanation.

    it wasnt until man was created that these attributes were manifested in a way to interact with us so we could see god, feel god, and know god. it is never competing gods, it is one god with 3 attributes that have their own role to play with mankind, all doing the will of the father, all for the glory of god. it is god making a way to interact with man to save him because he loves us, and we acknowledge that it is god reaching out to us, and it is thru faith that we are saved.
     
  10. Zaakir

    Zaakir part of the ummah

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    ok...i dont get it, any poeple have so many different views on jesus...within christinaity, anyway, i think this convo is going dead now...but i dont c the logic, why would god send His son 2 b kiled, so were saved from sin?aint we suposed 2 try and save ourselves from that, or try and repent?
     
  11. BlaznFattyz

    BlaznFattyz Well-Known Member

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    before christ came, god accepted sacrifice as an atonement for sins. that is under the laws of god. basically god grew tired of insincere gestures, sinful heart, and the lack of mans ability to keep his laws. so he sent his son to die for everyone, as a perfect and eternal sacrifice for everyone that believes in the son whom the father sent. that is being under the grace of god. this is where john 3:16 comes in. for god so loved the world, he gave his only begotten son, whosoever believes in him shall not perish, but have everlasting life.
     
  12. Dor

    Dor Bible Thumper

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    Thats the problem you think you can do enough to make up for your sins....Christians know we can never do enough to make up for them.....we still have to repent and try to stay away from sins.
     
  13. Zaakir

    Zaakir part of the ummah

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    in islam we have only focus on the supremity of one god, He alone is far from creation, and no words or thoughts can even start to show love or anything about Him, in islam we never do enough to be saved from sinful acts, and we cant do enough, all we can do is ask for forgivness, whether taht is accepted only Allah s.w.t knows...we also repent and try and stay away, but many things in islam are forbidden, to prevent us from commiting so many sins...i think where baznfatty wrote god grew tired of these sacrifices, why would He ask for it in the first place, then change His mind...??the son of god thing then, does this mean taht you dont have to make any sacrifice for your sins, becasue god made a sacrifice for you...when He could jsut simply forgive you!
     
  14. BlaznFattyz

    BlaznFattyz Well-Known Member

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    god is holy therefore his laws are holy. it is not possible to just forgive if under the law, because then there would be no point in god and his laws. you commit a crime, you have to pay the penalty. you sin, there is a consequence. so that is where jesus christ steps in, to sacrifice himself and that pleases god enough that if we believe christ died for us and repent of our sins, we will be forgiven. so you are either under the law, which no one can ever keep, and never know the true god and his son and the extent of his love for everyone, or you are under grace with jesus christ and all that believe in him find life everlasting.

    Isaiah 53
    1 Who has believed our message? To whom has the arm of Yahweh been revealed?

    2 For he grew up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of dry ground. He has no form nor comeliness. When we see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

    3 He was despised, and rejected by men; a man of suffering, and acquainted with disease. He was despised as one from whom men hide their face; and we didn't respect him.

    4 Surely he has borne our sickness, and carried our suffering; yet we considered him plagued, struck by God, and afflicted.

    5 But he was pierced for our transgressions. He was crushed for our iniquities. The punishment that brought our peace was on him; and by his wounds we are healed.

    6 All we like sheep have gone astray. Everyone has turned to his own way; and Yahweh has laid on him the iniquity of us all.

    7 He was oppressed, yet when he was afflicted he didn't open his mouth. As a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and as a sheep that before its shearers is mute, so he didn't open his mouth.

    8 He was taken away by oppression and judgment; and as for his generation, who considered that he was cut off out of the land of the living and stricken for the disobedience of my people?

    9 They made his grave with the wicked, and with a rich man in his death; although he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

    10 Yet it pleased Yahweh to bruise him. He has caused him to suffer. When you make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed. He shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of Yahweh shall prosper in his hand.

    11 After the suffering of his soul, he will see the light and be satisfied. My righteous servant will justify many by the knowledge of himself; and he will bear their iniquities.

    12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he poured out his soul to death, and was numbered with the transgressors; yet he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
     
  15. Azure24

    Azure24 Well-Known Member

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    I agree BlaznFattyz. What ever you say Zaakir or anyone else there will be an answer for it. Go ahead asked any question and i will answer. Even though you should already know this, since you were a former christian. Ask and i will answer.
     
  16. Zaakir

    Zaakir part of the ummah

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    i dont see how taht answers anything actually...azure said ask anything...here are a few q's:
    1)jesus has two different geneologys in the new testament, which claim joseph is his father right....?
    2)jesus came down to proclaim gods word, and to teach the torah, which had been previously been established....many things in the new testament differ from the old testament (torah) ie..unity of god...eating of certain foods etc...

    the trinity wasnt actually established untill about 360AD you know, historic evidence shows, it was never mentioned in the old or new testament either...
    im tried now, but i have many questions to ask...but please answer these logically aswell as with quotes from god or prophets
     

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