Jesus Camp

direct link to trailer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RNfL6IVWCE

i saw trailer. im not sure all whats going on there. i dont see anything militant about the children in camo.. thats probably just some play where they are symbolizing being soldiers of christ and to imitate boot camp for fun. that was not training with fake or real guns doing maneuvers, but thats my assumption. it could simply be people that love god and they arent doing anything wrong, or there could be other social psychological factors involved such as their age and what is being asked of them and who their visible and invisible influence is. if christ was taken out of the camp and substituted with something else, maybe they would have the same reaction, because it is the structure and content that causes their reactions, and not jesus. then it would be some cult taking on attributes of christianity. i duno, id have to watch the movie, or better yet be there. personally i think they should let kids be kids, and build them up to a gentle, loving, and personal relationship with christ, rather than what this movie is portraying.
 
I said:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,1883730,00.html

Anyone seen this film?

Curious as to how the controversy relates to actuality, and whether the "war" language isn't being quite misconstrued?

I saw that trailar and thought it was horrible! Those kids have no idea what they are talking about. They seem to be goated by super religous parants who prehaps have good ideas, but are going about it the wrong way. The movie is going to suck and cause people to think Chrisitans even more fanatical and wierd. I'm sure God will use it it His good though.
 
That is so disturbing to me. IMHO, GOD or Jesus do not need help in matters of Faith and understanding. We can lead a horse to water, by we can not make it drink. I think they better be careful not create "something" they can not control.
:cool:
 
I am trying very hard to be as objective as possible concerning both the article and the trailers. Maybe I am having a difficult time doing so because it just hits too close to home for me. I have been involved in a lot of Christian children's activities in both very conservative and fairly liberal congregations, and this disturbs me.

On one hand, the article questions the purpose behind such "extra-curriculars" as skateboarding and Christian rock concerts. I mean, come on--Christian youth groups have played sports and gone on outings of all kinds probably as long as they have been around. If you send your kid to a Christian camp, and she comes home with John 3:16 etched into her skateboard, should you really be all that surprised? I just wonder, if the kids in this film had been playing softball instead of listening to Christian rock, would the reporter even have touched on the subject?

On the other hand--and it's a heavy one--the bit with the bottled water turned my stomach. I am not sure, but I think I may have cried when I saw it. If I had walked in and witnessed this happening to my child, I would have been very tempted to drag the woman out by the hair of her head, tell her just how filthy I believed her to be on Monday through Saturday, and hold her under the waters of the nearest baptismal until she cried and 'fessed up!:mad: (I said I'd be tempted--didn't say I would do it).

And five-year-olds praying over an effigy of Bush? How about a simple prayer for the leaders of all nations? I wonder if Clinton were still in office, would they be praying over his picture or burning it? Maybe the five-year-olds would be conducting an exorcism? :rolleyes:

Having said all this, and without having seen the movie, I tend to think that maybe this woman has a confused idea about the Biblical "sword of the spirit", as well as what Jesus was talking about when he spoke of "laying down one's life in love". And I think that she may need to take a real good look at Islam before she assumes and teaches that all Muslims hold an extremist view. Now, I realize that there are young Christian (as well as others of various religious persuasions) men and women who serve their countries, and war issues are something they must examine. But little children? In church?

I think that parents really have to be on the ball and in touch with what is going on in these youth groups. Don't just go to "big church" and leave your kids in the hands of someone about whom you know very little. I know for a fact that sometimes churches are so desperate for youth leaders that they put people in charge who really should not be there. And I also know that most competent and sincere youth leaders would be glad to have more contact with the families of the children in their care.

I tend to agree with the following:

BlaznFattyz said:
personally i think they should let kids be kids, and build them up to a gentle, loving, and personal relationship with christ, rather than what this movie is portraying.

InPeace,
InLove
 
I was a counselor for four years at a Christian Camp, but I have never seen anything like this. Maybe because the camp I went to wasn't Pentacostal/Charismatic, but one owned and run by the conservative Baptist church of which I was a member. I would definitely not sent my kids to Jesus Camp.

Our main goal in camp was to introduce kids to Jesus bring them to an understanding of salvation in hopes that they would receive Christ. Many of the kids who came from around the Washington, DC area were from disadvantaged, low-income families who were sent to camp courtesy of various sponsors who worked with the church.

We'd have a bible study in the mornings after breakfast. Then go to various organized activities like Archery, Arts and Crafts, Frisbee Golf, Horseback Riding, and Boating. Then after lunch, we'd take a short nap/quiet time and then have free time in the afternoon. Then there were the overnight hiking/camping trips further up in the mountains where we would sleep in tents and tell ghost stories, sing songs, and roast marshmallows around the campfire. It was a blast.

But the best time was in the evening when we gathered together in the Tabernacle and sang songs like Noah's Ark, Titanic, The Lion Sleeps Tonight, If I Were A Butterfly, and Pass It On, and listened to a message from visiting evangelists, and seeing kids come to Christ at the end of the service. If you would survey all the kids that attended this camp and asked them what they remember the most, a good majority would tell you the evening services.

Camp should be fun and have an atmosphere where kids can learn about God and His Creation and be encouraged to seek Him in their lives. But all this Jesus Camp seems to be doing is incite kids into a warlike mindset. But Jesus said to love your enemies and pray for those who spite you. If the focus at this camp is to rile kids up, who probably have no idea what the political landscape is currently being played out, nor should they ought to be concerned at their age, then I think it is very damaging to their psyche. These kids are going to grow up with an avengist attitude and will be little better than the kids in Palestine who are being nurtured to be suicide bombers for the sake of Allah. We must conquer with love, not hate.
 
The acclaimed new documentary “Jesus Camp” reveals far more about liberal paranoia than it does about the fervent Pentecostal Christians it sets out to expose. The movie goes to great lengths to make a faith-based summer camp look like an authoritarian training ground for Nazi youth or jihadist killers – comparisons deliberately invoked in words and images. The filmmakers use extreme close-ups and dizzying camera angles show a congregation in fervent prayer, or speaking in tongues, accompanied by dissonant, don’t-look-in-the-closet music that could have been borrowed from “Psycho” or “Night of the Living Dead.” Mike Papantonio, an outspokenly leftist radio host for “Air America,” provides running commentary that regularly warns the audience of the alleged danger and dishonest of Christian conservatives.-- Michael Medved


I am not going to say everything in the movie was good or bad.
Just remember like any documentary made there is always an agenda.
What we never know at the time is how much is true and accurate and how much is exageration, lies or creative editing.
 
Good point, Dor. I noticed in the Guardian's report it seemed to focus on the "battle" language and suggest militancy from it - but this has been common in Christianity for decades, in a symbolic form.

I mean, seriously, if the Salvation Army had only been founded in post 9/11 world, wouldn't some media elements fret that it was really the front for a radical paramilitary group?
 
I used to work with a couple of guys who were all into the spiritual warfare, demons at the hedgerows, Left Behind kind of Christianity. I know some other people who are into that stuff. All of them are nice enough people, but they're also nutty as a fruit cake IMO. That's fine. You can blabber nonsense, handle snakes, or do whatever you want as far as I'm concerned. What I am concerned about is the rise of Dominionist Christian theology and its political ties to neo-conservatism. As long as religious nuts stay out of politics I'm not worried, but they're not. If you haven't heard of Christian Reconstruction or dominionism you might want to take a look at this article:

http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/TheDespoilingOfAmerica.htm

Chris
 
China Cat Sunflower said:
I used to work with a couple of guys who were all into the spiritual warfare, demons at the hedgerows, Left Behind kind of Christianity. I know some other people who are into that stuff. All of them are nice enough people, but they're also nutty as a fruit cake IMO. That's fine. You can blabber nonsense, handle snakes, or do whatever you want as far as I'm concerned. What I am concerned about is the rise of Dominionist Christian theology and its political ties to neo-conservatism. As long as religious nuts stay out of politics I'm not worried, but they're not. If you haven't heard of Christian Reconstruction or dominionism you might want to take a look at this article:

http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/TheDespoilingOfAmerica.htm

Chris

I see danger here also. For Pat Roberson & Co. to pursue the idea that Christians can form and organization that could take dominion over the World for Christ in order to expedite the Second Coming smacks a little bit of the extremist Islamic mentality. Frankly, I'd like to leave that world domination thing alone until the Return of Christ. Let Him sort all this mess out.

That is not to say that as Christians we shouldn't fight for our right to free speech and freedom of religion. These frivolious lawsuits filed by the ACLU against children who cannot fulfill their assignment at school of reading from their favorite book because it happens to be the Bible that it is doing great harm to our sense of individuality and freedom. I truly fear that we are seeing an erosion of these rights and if we don't speak to these things, one day the courts will take more away.
 
Dondi said:
I see danger here also. For Pat Roberson & Co. to pursue the idea that Christians can form and organization that could take dominion over the World for Christ in order to expedite the Second Coming smacks a little bit of the extremist Islamic mentality.
the problem here is man thinking to second guess what god would want... gods plans i am certain are quite more complex than that and will come about when god desires it.
 
This thing reminds me of a book by Tom Robbins, 'Skinny Legs and All'. Particularly a point in the trailer where a little boy says, 'We are the key generation to return of Christ,' or something like that. If you're going to read the book, and it really is definitely worth the read, don't read this next paragraph/sentence.

It kind of ends up that one of the characters, a religious fanatic in the tune of Southern Christianity (forgive me that I don't remember the specific name of this type - with the huge churches and radio stations and tv, etc. etc.) decides that the last part of the prophecy to be fulfilled before Jesus returns is the destruction of the Dome of the Rock, the accomplishment of which requires other terrorist acts and illicit behaviours. It's pretty eye opening.
 
Dondi said:
I see danger here also. For Pat Roberson & Co. to pursue the idea that Christians can form and organization that could take dominion over the World for Christ in order to expedite the Second Coming smacks a little bit of the extremist Islamic mentality. Frankly, I'd like to leave that world domination thing alone until the Return of Christ. Let Him sort all this mess out.

That is not to say that as Christians we shouldn't fight for our right to free speech and freedom of religion. These frivolious lawsuits filed by the ACLU against children who cannot fulfill their assignment at school of reading from their favorite book because it happens to be the Bible that it is doing great harm to our sense of individuality and freedom. I truly fear that we are seeing an erosion of these rights and if we don't speak to these things, one day the courts will take more away.

I keep thinking of "my kingdom is not of this world, otherwise my servants would fight." We've seen the rise of evangelical expectations with the current president. I'm of the opinion that the constitutional foundation of our democracy can resist the incursions of sectarian political intrigue, but a lot of people are seriously worried that a Christianized version of what has happened in Iran is in the offing here. That said, it seems sometimes that the lessons of the reformation have been forgotten. There are valid reasons to whole heartedly support the seperation of church and state. I don't believe that the Bible supports the pre-millenialist concept. I do believe that the political ties between partisan politics and the evangelical right smack heavily of what John the Revelator saw in his vision concerning the political nature of the beast and Babylon.

Chris
 
China Cat Sunflower said:
I keep thinking of "my kingdom is not of this world, otherwise my servants would fight." We've seen the rise of evangelical expectations with the current president. I'm of the opinion that the constitutional foundation of our democracy can resist the incursions of sectarian political intrigue, but a lot of people are seriously worried that a Christianized version of what has happened in Iran is in the offing here. That said, it seems sometimes that the lessons of the reformation have been forgotten. There are valid reasons to whole heartedly support the seperation of church and state. I don't believe that the Bible supports the pre-millenialist concept. I do believe that the political ties between partisan politics and the evangelical right smack heavily of what John the Revelator saw in his vision concerning the political nature of the beast and Babylon.

Chris
Absolutely! It's funny how you hear that as a kid and can't see how it could be true. And then, you see time passing and things changing and it starts looking like reality.

P.S. Don't some Jews think Israel is having such a hard time because the "Eretz Israel" people tried to force it's creation? (just asking)
 
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