fears place

[paul]

does anyone think fear is in the wrong place.
for fear does exists, maybe in us all.
but do we fear the wrong things, and is fear put freely in the hands of criminals, and although even they may have fear deep inside, they probably don't have fear of commiting their crimes or causing others to live in fear.
Shouldn't there be a fear to commit crimes, that if they do they will have something to fear.
instead of the fear being freely in their hands to inflict on their victims, shouldn't there be more of a fear to them to commit such crimes?
i truly believe in love and forgiveness, and believe that is the cure, i believe that should always be offered, but those who don't want love but want to commit evil, shouldn't there be some fear of doing so.
for love may help people to love, and i believe in turning the other cheek, but as for law and order, and as one who has been a criminal, i know the fear i had was more about my image in front of my friends, than commiting any crime or even hurting others.
i have to ask what was i afraid of, it was being shamed, for others to see my fear and my weaknesses.
now if crimes were punished by what criminals truly fear, maybe they would be more fearful of commiting their crimes and more willing to change.
for they may be seen as weak to change, but if their punishment exposed the weakness, their deepest fears which may even be the cause to them commiting crimes, then are they then not moreso to rather at least not commit these crimes, and maybe be easier for them to get help.
i am trying to think what type of punishment which may have detered me from my crimes.
what are hardened criminals truly afraid of?
i do think maybe being seen as weak, but we are all weak.
maybe they need to be humilated in front of those whom they want to appear hard, the punishment would maybe have to differ per person and their crime.
but for the type of person as myself, what would have detered me, what would deter you.
i can only say the harsher, more severe the punishment, the more fearful, the less likely i would have commited crimes.
i believe forgiveness must always be offered, but forgiveness is useless to the criminal unless they are sorry and want to change.
i think fear needs to put back in it's right place, people fear being victims of crime, they shouldn't have this fear, but the potential criminal should.
an eye for an eye is completely just, what someone does to another they deserve to be done to them, maybe moreso, for their victim may have done nothing to deserve it, they now have.
also the fear would be there as much as they would do to another, they would be punished and maybe moreso.
for if they were to steal and only have to repay what they had stolen, then there would be no fear in their stealing, but if they had to give back what they stolen, and as much as they would have stolen repay themselves, they would feel the crime their intended to inflict on another done to them, i beleive this would be justice.
Gandhi said an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind, and i completely agree.
but this makes no sense literally, for few people lose their eye by the fault of another, if this eye for an eye was literally enforced, there wouldn't be that many people literally blind, most certianly not the whole world.
but i understand and think it is a wise saying, that an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.
for if we are all seeking vengence on another, then we would all be at war with another, for we all sin, we all do wrong, we all offend and do wrong to another at some time.
so i believe forgiveness should always be in our hearts one to another, but as for the case of justice i believe there have to be just laws against evil.
whether we are to go as far as an eye for an eye, would be a bit brutal in todays world, but for the one who having lost an eye to be willing to forgive the one who did it, is something pure, but if the one who did it, would do the same to so many others, then for their sakes he should be at least imprisoned, and for his own maybe he should feel what it's like to lose an eye.
for his own sake i say, for it may be said how can it possibly be for his own sake to lose his eye, but if it saves him, brings him to the realization of his own evil, feeling that what he does to another done to himself, maybe he could be somewhere closer to rehabilitation.
these are just some of my thoughts, i'don't know that we should take out peoples eyes, but maybe some fearful punishment, and some feeling of what the criminal has done to their victim felt by the criminal in some way.
Some counselling, or even religion can help, but i think maybe for some they can only feel anothers pain when it's happened to them.
if it's just for a person to be punished as they do to another, then surely God who is just above all men will somehow reward everyone according to their works, and if we try daily to do what is good, repent and plead for mercy, realizing our own selves as sinners, but not setting out to do evil, but maybe sometimes falling through human weakness, and even in this having mercy on one another, in that we see our own sin, surely we must also be tolerant with another.
For if we expect God, and even another to forgive us, then surely we should rightly show the same mercy.
but we do come to God repentent, and if someone is not sorry, doesn't want to change, doesn't care the hurt they inflict on others, maybe they are in complete darkness, truly all they do need is love, to be loving and not evil.
but even if shown love they continue in evil, is it maybe for their own benefit to be punished?
maybe even that won't work.
but i don't know, maybe we all have the ability to love, and to be evil, being loved and shown love diffenetly helps us to love, but does being inflicted make us evil?
i don't know, maybe abuse can turn people into abusers, lack of love and evil done to people is maybe the cause of lack of love in themselves.
being inflicted instead of loved may damage us, but being inflicted because of evil we've commited may discipline us.

anyone have any thoughts on this?
know how religions address this?

 

[manephelien]

Are you allergic to the shift key?

That's too hard to slog through without proper punctuation, and splitting text into paragraphs would make for much easier reading as well.

The subject is hard enough, don't make it harder by not adhering to typing/printing conventions. Thanks.

 

[paul]

Very sorry, i wrote it offline, and copy and pasted it, it did have spaces between paragraphs originally.

What does the shift key do?

I'm not really very good at punctuation either, i don't have a lot of time, and don't seem to have the option to edit.

I will try again to edit it later or maybe repost it better.

 

[paul]

Does anyone think fear is in the wrong place.
For fear does exists, maybe in us all.
But do we fear the wrong things, and is fear put freely in the hands of criminals, and although even they may have fear deep inside, they probably don't have fear of commiting their crimes or causing others to live in fear.
Shouldn't there be a fear to commit crimes, that if they do they will have something to fear.
Instead of the fear being freely in their hands to inflict on their victims, Shouldn't there be more of a fear to them to commit such crimes?

I truly believe in love and forgiveness, and believe that is the cure, i believe that should always be offered, but those who don't want love but want to commit evil, shouldn't there be some fear of doing so.
For love may help people to love, and i believe in turning the other cheek, but as for law and order, and as one who has been a criminal, i know the fear i had was more about my image in front of my friends, than commiting any crime or even hurting others.

I have to ask what was i afraid of, it was being shamed, for others to see my fear and my weaknesses.
If crimes were punished by what criminals truly fear, maybe they would be more fearful of commiting their crimes and more willing to change.
For they may be seen as weak to change, but if their punishment exposed the weakness, their deepest fears which may even be the cause to them commiting crimes, then are they then not moreso to rather at least not commit these crimes, and maybe be easier for them to get help.

I am trying to think what type of punishment which may have detered me from my crimes.
what are hardened criminals truly afraid of?
I do think maybe being seen as weak, but we are all weak.

Maybe they need to be humilated in front of those whom they want to appear hard, the punishment would maybe have to differ per person and their crime.
But for the type of person as myself, what would have detered me, what would deter you.
I can only say the harsher, more severe the punishment, the more fearful, the less likely i would have commited crimes.

I believe forgiveness must always be offered, but forgiveness is useless to the criminal unless they are sorry and want to change.

I think fear needs to put back in it's right place, people fear being victims of crime, they shouldn't have this fear, but the potential criminal should.

An eye for an eye is completely just, what someone does to another they deserve to be done to them, maybe moreso, for their victim may have done nothing to deserve it, they now have.
Also the fear would be there as much as they would do to another, they would be punished and maybe moreso.
For if they were to steal and only have to repay what they had stolen, then there would be no fear in their stealing, but if they had to give back what they stolen, and as much as they would have stolen repay themselves, they would feel the crime their intended to inflict on another done to them, i beleive this would be justice.

Gandhi said an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind, and i completely agree.
But this makes no sense literally, for few people lose their eye by the fault of another, if this eye for an eye was literally enforced, there wouldn't be that many people literally blind, most certianly not the whole world.
But i understand and think it is a wise saying, that an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.
For if we are all seeking vengence on another, then we would all be at war with another, for we all sin, we all do wrong, we all offend and do wrong to another at some time.
So i believe forgiveness should always be in our hearts one to another, but as for the case of justice i believe there have to be just laws against evil.

Whether we are to go as far as an eye for an eye, would be a bit brutal in todays world, but for the one who having lost an eye to be willing to forgive the one who did it, is something pure, but if the one who did it, would do the same to so many others, then for their sakes he should be at least imprisoned, and for his own sake maybe he should feel what it's like to lose an eye.
For his own sake i say, for it may be said how can it possibly be for his own sake to lose his eye, but if it saves him, brings him to the realization of his own evil, feeling that what he does to another done to himself, maybe he could be somewhere closer to rehabilitation.

These are just some of my thoughts, i don't know that we should take out peoples eyes, but maybe some fearful punishment, and some feeling of what the criminal has done to their victim felt by the criminal in some way.
Some counselling, or even religion can help, but i think maybe for some they can only feel anothers pain when it's happened to them.

If it's justice for a person to be punished as they do to another, then surely God who is just above all men will somehow reward everyone according to their works, and if we try daily to do what is good, repent and plead for mercy, realizing our own selves as sinners, but not setting out to do evil, but maybe sometimes falling through human weakness, and even in this having mercy on one another, in that we see our own sin, surely we must also be tolerant with another.
For if we expect God, and even another to forgive us, then surely we should rightly show the same mercy.
But we do come to God repentent, and if someone is not sorry, doesn't want to change, doesn't care the hurt they inflict on others, maybe they are in complete darkness, truly all they do need is love, to be loving and not evil.
But even if shown love they continue in evil, is it maybe for their own benefit to be punished?
Maybe even that won't work.

But i don't know, maybe we all have the ability to love, and to be evil, being loved and shown love diffenetly helps us to love, but does being inflicted make us evil?
I don't know, maybe abuse can turn people into abusers, lack of love and evil done to people is maybe the cause of lack of love in themselves.
Being inflicted instead of loved may damage us, but being inflicted because of evil we've commited may discipline us.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?
Know how religions address this?

 

[InLove]

Hi Paul,

It is a hard question--and an age-old one. In a perfect world, loving mercy would preempt the need for justice. I know that, for myself, I much rather desire mercy. For if I am to reap justice, I am most likely in trouble.

You mentioned Gandhi's statement about "an eye for and eye" making the whole world blind. I have often been intrigued at how close much of what Gandi said parallels that of Jesus, who offers some thoughts on justice, mercy, and just plain avoiding trouble in Matthew, Chapter 5.

You asked if our fear is perhaps misplaced. I think you may have hit on part of the answer when you wrote that, at the time, you were more worried about what your peers thought of you than you were about the victim of the crime. I am not sure that "fear of God" is the terminology I would choose here, but I might say "respect for Love" would help people consider the real harm that can be done when one places frivolous self desire ahead of the wellbeing of another. There is tremendous value in the apparent fact that you are sincerely sorry for what you did, and are now searching for how to help others sidestep the mistake you made.

You pointed out that one person cannot really know another's experience until they have that very same experience. I think this is true, for the most part. I find it interesting that it is often those who have committed crimes against others who are in favor of strong crime legislation. Perhaps there is a season for everything? I think that sometimes the problem with doling out justice is that we tend to apply, out of necessity I suppose, a one-size-fits-all punishment. I'd say this is where the letter of the law needs the spirit of the law for both to be merciful and just.

As you can see, I have no conclusion to offer on this subject, only thoughts. But I think that this is the way life is--kind of messy, you know? A daily untangling of what is knotted up. I like what a certain radiant "moth" said on another thread about another subject, but which I think applies here as well: We live in the tension, at least for now. So I guess we have to continue finding our balance in all things.

And, by the way, I had no problem reading your first post. There have been many great writers who have circumvented the rules of convention and gotten their points across. But it was nice of you to take the time to make a second draft for the sake of the reader.

InPeace,
InLove