crystals

Discussion in 'New Age' started by maya, Mar 29, 2003.

  1. Talia

    Talia New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2003
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well so long as I'm not being trashed as well! I find some things work for me and some things don't that other people swear by. So I've always felt a bit of an outsider. I like using quartz as well, it seems a very pure crystal to use. And if the really ancient peoples used it then who am I to disagree that it's worth using? If they really were more sensitive to the earth then its worth learning from what they had and used. That way we won't romantisise them to much (she says being cheeky about brian's other topic.)
    :)
     
  2. Ryuuko

    Ryuuko Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2004
    Messages:
    76
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dear WHKeith,

    Thank you for that post, and for the others that have posted on this topic up until now. If I can add my two cents, there seems to be a divide on this thread between the scientifically-minded and those who have used crystals and believe in their properties without scientific proof. As it was mentioned, who's right? Nobody! Both are. Let me add to that:

    On one side, it's true that the healing properties of crystals has not been scientifically documented as of yet. I haven't seen any scientific papers showing empirical evidence demonstrating that amethyst cures people of hangovers, or that hematite is a good stress reliever. In this sense, I see it fit that those of you who prefer to base their beliefs in science would categorize crystals as "psychological aids".

    On the other side, however, science does not offer any means of measuring energy, and hence, cannot offer empirical evidence of energy healing methods or tools. Until this is done, we are left with a matter of faith. You believe it or you don't, based on your experiences. But we're still left with cases of people using a specific crystal to heal a specific ailment either in themselves or on other people or animals. What do we do with those cases?

    In my opinion, describing crystals as mere "psychological aids" is unjust. For the reasons mentioned above, there are quite a few things that science cannot explain, and to dismiss anything that cannot be scientifically proven at this time is a great fault. We are now discovering alternative methods of healing, such as Reiki and sound/color therapy, all of which deal with energy, and there are quite a few positive results in favor of these therapies, but the placebo effect theory is not applicable.

    It was noted in your thread, WHKeith, that Amethyst was believed to prevent drunkenness and the dreaded hangover. While I haven't really tried this one out for myself (what a fun scientific experiment this sounds like! Any volunteers? ;) ), it may very well be valid--the vibrational "signature" of Amethyst may produce the results we're looking for. All this talk about vibrational healing makes me think of my friend who's studying to be a homeopath. As you may or may not know, the scientific community has been up in arms about the validity of homeopathy as a valid form of treatment, since the remedy itself is so diluted there are only trace amounts of the actual remedy. I asked my friend how homeopathy works, and he said, in a nutshell, that what's left is the vibration of that medicine. I can see how THAT would make the scientific community go nuts! I believe Dr. Masaru Emoto's work with water crystals is a breaking point in scientifically demonstrating this.

    One last thing: I can't help but notice how homeopathy has wonderful results with children and pets who cannot be affected by the placebo effect. This same friend of mine doesn't know much about crystals, but when he knows he'll be drinking, he'll take the nux vomica homeopathic medicine and he's fine. What I'm getting to is, I've used serpentine a number of times for muscle aches, and have also used it on pets, and all were relieved on muscle pain. I've also used Reiki on a horse that couldn't stand on her front legs and she could after two days of Reiki treatment. Science has a long way to go before it can explain energy healing, and I'm looking forward to that day. Until then, I think we need to keep a rational focus but still give credit to these methods of healing that have yet to be proven.
     
  3. iBrian

    iBrian Peace, Love and Unity Admin

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2003
    Messages:
    6,532
    Likes Received:
    10
    Good post, Ryuuko, and a fair summary of the subject. :)
     
  4. Sacredstar

    Sacredstar New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2004
    Messages:
    1,125
    Likes Received:
    0
    An excellent book on vibrational medicine written by Richard Gerber, MD. The book is based upon twenty years of nationally recognised research into alternative medical diagnosis and treatment and has become one of the definitive texts for energetic medicine.

    Dr Gerber's encyclopedic treatment of subtle-energy fields, acupuncture, Bach flower remedies, crystals, radionics, chakra's, meditation, and homepathy has acheived wide spread acceptance as the textbook of choice for individuals, schools, and health-care institutions nationwide.

    Publishers weekly said "This book is at the cutting edge of the whole health movement.

    Kenneth R, Pelletier, Phd. UCSF School of Medicine author of Mind, as Healer, Mind as Slayer. Review of this book.

    "Twenty-first century health care will be based upon the subtle energy principles and interventions involving mind, body and environmental, and spiritual dimensions which are so authoritatively documented in Vibrational Medicine. Clearly, this is a landmark book which is challenging, contraversial, and a brilliant tour de force of major historical and clinical significance. First published in 1988.

    We now see many doctors embracing vibrational medicine. In the UK a healer-doctor network as been running for sometime. The young medical students of today are different, they have grown up in a different culture of CM and spirituality.

    Last year at the 'Taste of Medicine' conference I was lecturing with a doctor who teaches these students to be doctors. He told us how they bring crystals to help them with their exams and that doctors are now being taught about complementary/vibrational medicine in their courses. We also discussed metaphysics and this he said was also an important aspect of healing mind, body and spirit.

    There was a time when we believed the world was flat, until Geiger came along we didn't know that radiation existed, but it was always there and we were always affected by it. It was the invention of the achromactic microscope in 1830 by Joseph Jackson Lister that enabled his son to write his paper on antiseptic surgery. From this moment on we had proof that reality also exists in the invisible. Radio and televisions sets are also detecting and processing invisible energy frequencies. Scientists at the cutting edge now except that everything is an energy force operating at different frequencies.

    Some scientists and rationalists are still trying to fit some metaphysical concepts into old models, and this just will not work in many cases; an example of this is remote viewing used by the CIA, Russian and Indian intelligence.

    In the UK the Lords did a report on complementary medicine, the results being that therapies like Reiki and Spiritual Healing are now implementing self-regulation, and skills for health are working with trade bodies to introduce skills for health national occupational standards, so that these and many other CM therapies can be made available in the NHS due to public demand.

    The Royal College at the behest of Prince Charles and integrated health as also set up a group of doctors to develop 'A New Spiritual Paradigm in Medicine'.

    We live in exciting times on the brink of a whole new era in medicine and healthcare.

    Love beyond measure

    Sacredstar
     
  5. Sacredstar

    Sacredstar New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2004
    Messages:
    1,125
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dear Brian

    You may be interested in the work of www.tillerfoundation.com here are their bio's.

    Fellow to the American Academy for the Advancement of Science, Professor Emeritus William A. Tiller, of Stanford University’s Department of Materials Science, spent 34 years in academia after 9 years as an advisory physicist with the Westinghouse Research Laboratories. In his conventional science field he has published over 250 scientific papers, 3 books and several patents. In parallel, for the past 30 years, he has been avocationally pursuing serious experimental and theoretical study of the field of psychoenergetics which he thinks will become a very important part of "tomorrow’s" physics. In this new area, he has published to date, an additional 100 scientific papers and two seminal books.


    Dr. Dibble received his Ph.D. in Geochemistry at Stanford University in 1980 and did post-doctoral studies with William Tiller in the department of Materials Science and Engineering until 1982. He worked in industry in engineering geology until 1997 when again he worked with Dr. Tiller as a visiting scholar at Stanford. Since then he has been employed at Ditron, LLC and the William A. Tiller Foundation for New Science conducting experiments using intention imprinted electronic devices. Fields of specialization include aqueous geochemistry, crystal growth, engineering geology and subtle energy research. He has published several scientific papers in the field of geochemistry and more recently in the newly emerging field of subtle energy.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Is it true that every computer as a crystal inside it and that a computer will not work without the crystal, but yet the scientists do not know why?

    being love

    Sacredstar
     
  6. Ryuuko

    Ryuuko Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2004
    Messages:
    76
    Likes Received:
    0
    :D :D :D forgot about that one! Thanks for the reminder SacredStar!
     
  7. heavensblade23

    heavensblade23 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2008
    Messages:
    40
    Likes Received:
    0
    Not true at all, it's just used to keep accurate time for a system clock, much like a watch.
     
  8. DrumR

    DrumR New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    395
    Likes Received:
    1
    You are both right. It is a floor wax and a desert topping!:D

    Not all scientists know how computers work. Most computer users do not know how computers work.

    In solid-state digital computers there exist crystals in many forms. The Integrated Circuit (IC) devices are in themselves modified crystaline matrices. The 'clock' crystal is not about time in absolute terms as much as it is to provide a steady reference signal to activate other sub-circuits within and without of the Central Processing Unit (CPU). While the activating signal for the CPU could be provided by an variable oscillator, other external timing considerations would be greatly complicated.

    The word "clock" is applied because of the high degree of regularity provided when a crystal is used as the primary controlling frequency element of an oscillator.

    I know that this may be considered as Too Much Information (TMI) by some but it does help to keep the record straight and perhaps it may reduce some of the pseudo-scientific babble.

    P.S. The crystals operate via the phenomenon known as the piezo-electric effect.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2009
  9. citizenzen

    citizenzen Custom User Title

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2008
    Messages:
    3,231
    Likes Received:
    2
    The effectiveness of placebos is well understood. It wouldn't surprise me at all to find people responding to crystals in the same way that they would react to a sugar pill or a therapeutic touch or a positive tarot reading. People are highly prone to suggestion and seeking miracle cures.

    While Bigfoot might exist, I'll remain skeptical until somebody produces compelling evidence to the contrary. Crystals may heal people, but until evidence is produced to prove this, I remain skeptical of that claim as well.
     
  10. DrumR

    DrumR New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    395
    Likes Received:
    1
    An on the off claw...

    Science does indeed offer a means of measuring energy the Watt/Hour or, smaller yet, the erg/second. I will presume, Ryuuko, that you were addressing a particular form of energy rather than energy in general.

    One of the difficulties, as I see it, is to be found the nature of science in general in that it is of a narrow focus and all too often related fields, outside of the specialty, are discounted as having little or no bearing by the discipline engaging in the study.:(

    Yet one of the most basic facts of measurements is that the measuring tool has, either directly or indirectly, one or more aspects of the item to be measured; traditional scientists often times overlook this consideration.:confused:

    When examining the "para" normal should one utilize normal measuring devices that have little or no relationship to a phenomenon? A phenomenon, I might add, that is otherwise unexplained and whose limits are neither understood nor even codified? On the face of it this does not appear to be "Good Science" and yet this is, more often than not, the methodology employed. One may be left with the opinion that the experiment was specifically designed to fail.:(

    Once more, using the off claw, there is much work performed by those whose methodology may be in question and/or whose vocabulary may be insufficient to the task; relying on metaphor or pseudo-techno babble. This opens the proverbial "can of worms" save for the fact this this "can" is of the large industrial size and has been hidden in a very dark place in the hopes that no one would open it.

    Dare one ask these questions and, worse yet, do we (?) put forth that concerted effort required to diligently seek out the answers, come what may???

    I know not what course others may take
    but as for me
    I have a Tea Cup and I know how to use it.:D
     
  11. shawn

    shawn New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2007
    Messages:
    2,085
    Likes Received:
    0
    The way the whole crystal thing is done by so many causes me to think about the scene in the mad max movie where the kids are spinning records on a stick. Totally having gone primitive with these technical artifacts.
     
  12. DrumR

    DrumR New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    395
    Likes Received:
    1
    Quite so, shawn.

    Yet even within these forums there may be found some "light" shed on the subject(s). One need only dig through the older posts in the "Science and the Universe" threads to note some of the more advanced research in the areas of matricies. Bishadi had posted some information and links to F.R.E.T. and other items in posts #152129 and 152232.

    The conundrum still remains as to why, with such related information available, many in this alternative thread would ignore it. Science, IMHO, when broken down to its least principle is to collect the information of the work of others in order to be able to repeat the processes involved and to obtain the same results, repeatedly.

    While the above does not appear to be all that different than many every day tasks, I would hazard a guess that the mystique of the word and concept of "science" repels many. Pity.
     
  13. shawn

    shawn New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2007
    Messages:
    2,085
    Likes Received:
    0
    Where are those posts?
    Maybe could you paste the url so it is easier to find.

    I am with you on that score.
    The same goes for all spiritual/mystical things.
    They all need to be "de-mystified" and we do need to learn the science behind why things are that way, developing a "science of the spirit".
     
  14. DrumR

    DrumR New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    395
    Likes Received:
    1
    Thank you for the favor of a reply, Shawn.

    Re: URL
    [begin ill logic]
    Nobody taught me how.
    Since I do not know how to do this, it does not 'really' exist.
    Given that it does not exist, I haven't the foggiest idea of what you are talking about.
    If I do not know what you are talking about, neither does any else.
    If no one else knows, you don't really exist
    .:confused:
    If you don't really exist, then it must be that THEY are hallucinating, again.;)
    [end very ill logic];):D

    The areas in which to seek are:
    Secularism-Science and the Universe:
    page 4 (at the time of this writing)
    Title1: "Life is exchanging 'light'..."
    Title2: "Florescence Resonance Energy Transfer..."

    The post are related in a tangential sort of way and some of the external links are quite worthwhile. Remember that there is no such think as an un-related fact.

    Just so, Shawn.
    If the "Scientific Method" were embraced by those who display a sincere interest in these areas, bearing in mind my previous posts in this thread and the "Alternative-Pagan" area (re: TechnoPagan), much might be accomplished one way or the other. If such is to be done one should not wait for the established scientific community to embark on such a search, that is not without considerable funding of course.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2009
  15. shawn

    shawn New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2007
    Messages:
    2,085
    Likes Received:
    0
    Quick lesson:
    -open the page where the posts are
    -look at the very top of your browser where there is a string of symbols starting with http
    -Right click that and it should highlight it and open a menu box
    -select copy with a left click
    -when you are posting your reply, right click in the dialogue box where you want the copy to go and then left click "paste" from the menu box that opened when you right clicked
    simple eh?
    for example: here is the first page of this thread:
    http://www.interfaith.org/forum/crystals-61.html
    then just indicate which post # you are referring to.
    Hope that helps.
    If not then this message does not exist.:D
     
  16. DrumR

    DrumR New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    395
    Likes Received:
    1
    Thank you for the favor of a reply Shawn.

    The web that is named is not the real web
    The browser that is alluded to is not the real browser
    Therefore
    The highlight that is un named is the highlight that is used....

    http://www.interfaith.org/forum/life-is-exchanging-light-not-9182.html

    http://www.interfaith.org/forum/fluorescence-resonance-energy-transfer-fret-9185.html

    TNX:)

    [Admin edit - I, Brian - links amended :) ]
     
  17. shawn

    shawn New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2007
    Messages:
    2,085
    Likes Received:
    0
    The beginning of each link has this... http:// ...
    twice, which yields an error. Should only be one of those.
    I can get to the posts now though.
    tnx
     
  18. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Messages:
    22,027
    Likes Received:
    2,054
    my guess is when hitting the hyperlink icon one clicks after the http:// and then adds their own link which also includes an http:// hence the double.

    if one didn't click the auto http:// would be highlighted/bolded/selected and hence replaced by the new link.


    back to your regular programming...
     
  19. DrumR

    DrumR New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    395
    Likes Received:
    1
    I'll code to that! Pointers are much easier to use and have much of the qualities of the Tao...
     
  20. DrumR

    DrumR New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    395
    Likes Received:
    1
    Thanks I, Brian.
     

Share This Page