Palestine: Is It the Jews' Promised Land?

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I seek refuge in Allah (The One God) from the Satan (devil) the cursed, the rejected


 With the name of ALLAH (God Almighty) -The Bestower Of Unlimited Mercy, The Continously Merciful


 Assalamu Alaikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh (May the peace, mercy and blessings of Allah be upon you)
**
Listen to the holy Quran---the Final Testament
 Recitation of Sura Fathiha by Shiekh Saad Al-Ghamdhi of Saudi Arabia
http://www.islamworld.net/fathiha.au


 ***
Palestine: Is It the Jews' Promised Land?​
pl. visit the useful links>
 Why do the Jews believe that Palestine is their promised land? If so, is this promise an absolute one?
Palestine in the Bible​
http://www.jews-for-allah.org/israel/palestine_in_bible.htm]pl.visit link

 [/FONT]Israel Given to the Palestinians;
 "And Samuel said to him, "The LORD has torn the kingdom of Israel from you this day, and has given it to a neighbor of yours, who is better than you." 1Samuel 15:28, and (jos 13:1)


 I want to ask you about the Jews’ claim to Palestine as their promised land. Is there any basis for that claim? Does the Qur'an specifically say that Palestine was given only to the Jews? If not, what would you say to refute it? Also, I would like to ask you about the Qur'anic interpretation of the meaning of the Jews as the "Chosen People." Are they chosen? And if not what does it mean that Allah preferred them to others.



 The Jews and the Promised Land

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503544010] click to read the full answer [/FONT]
Palestine: Is It the Jews' Promised Land?

click to read
​
&&&​
What does the Bible say about Palestine and the Palestinian people ?​
Equal to Israel;





 "Do you Israelites think you are more important to me than the Ethiopians ?" asks the LORD. "I brought you out of Egypt, but have I not done as much for other nations, too? I brought the Philistines from Crete and led the Arameans out of Kir" Amos 9:7
Abraham stayed a long time there;
 " And Abraham sojourned many days in the land of the Philistines." Ge 21:34
David got protection there;
 "But David kept thinking to himself, "Someday Saul is going to get me. The best thing for me to do is escape to the Philistines. Then Saul will stop hunting for me, and I will finally be safe."" 1 Samuel 27:1
 More righteous than Isaac;
 "king of the Philistines looked out of a window and saw Isaac fondling Rebekah his wife. So Abim'elech called Isaac, and said, "Behold, she is your wife; how then could you say, 'She is my sister'?" Isaac said to him, "Because I thought, 'Lest I die because of her.'" Abim'elech said, "What is this you have done to us? One of the people might easily have lain with your wife, and you would have brought guilt upon us." (Genesis 26:6-11)

 Palestinians are the Judges of Israel;
 "These were the nations: the Philistines (those living under the five Philistine rulers), all the Canaanites, the Sidonians, and the Hivites living in the hill country of Lebanon from Mount Baal-hermon to Lebo-hamath. These people were left to test the Israelites – to see whether they would obey the commands the LORD had given to their ancestors through Moses." Judges 3:3-4
"And he judged Israel in the days of the Philistines twenty years." Jud 15:20

Israel Given to the Palestinians;
 "And Samuel said to him, "The LORD has torn the kingdom of Israel from you this day, and has given it to a neighbor of yours, who is better than you." 1Samuel 15:28, and (jos 13:1)

 Israel Sold To Palestinians;
 "And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he sold them into the hand of the Philistines and into the hand of the Ammonites" Jos 10:7


In conclusion, God in the Bible favored Palestine more than Israel​
 
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In the first place, when I Samuel 15:28 says, "...The LORD has torn the kingdom of Israel from you this day, and has given it to a neighbor of yours, who is better than you.", it's not talking about a nation, but a person...namely David.

King Saul disobeyed God by not utterly destroying all the Amalekites, for he spared the king, Agog's life and took some of the spoils. Samuel is prophesying that the Lord has rejected Saul as king of Israel.

In I Samuel 16:1, God tells Samuel that He will choose a new king:

"And the LORD said unto Samuel, How long wilt thou mourn for Saul, seeing I have rejected him from reigning over Israel? fill thine horn with oil, and go, I will send thee to Jesse the Bethlehemite: for I have provided me a king among his sons."

The new king turn out to be David, son of Jesse.

So this has nothing to do with the tranfer of land ownership, but rather the tranfer of one king to another within the kingdom of Israel.

It helps if you take scriptures in context.

As far as Joshua 13:1 and 10:7, I don't know where you got the references, but I can't find these verses matching.

But as far as Palastine (Philistine) being favored by God, you first have to realize that Abraham was given the land of Israel, or Canaan, by God first, according to Genesis 13:12-28:

"Abram dwelled in the land of Canaan, and Lot dwelled in the cities of the plain, and pitched his tent toward Sodom. But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the LORD exceedingly.

And the LORD said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward:
For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.
And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered.
Arise, walk through the land in the length of it and in the breadth of it; for I will give it unto thee. Then Abram removed his tent, and came and dwelt in the plain of Mamre, which is in Hebron, and built there an altar unto the LORD."

The promise is to Abraham and his seed forever in verse 15.

So who is Abraham's seed? That would be the legitimate seed of Abraham and Sarah, promised by God, namely Isaac, the father of Jacob, the father of the twelve sons who would ultimately make up the nation of Israel.

That land is an eternal inheritance to the nation of Israel all the way back to Abraham, so the land is theirs by inheritance.

It does matter not who has occupied it at various times in history. God's promise is forever.
 
the philistines of the bible are not the palestinians of today. the name "palestina" for the current area was imposed by the romans - their way of insulting us after destroying our state by naming their new province after our ancient enemies. there is no actual connection between modern-day palestine and ancient philistia other than this. and yes, it is our promised land.

b'shalom

bananabrain
 
Salaam/peace ;
Dondi said:
.....


So who is Abraham's seed? That would be the legitimate seed of Abraham and Sarah, promised by God, namely Isaac,
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So , who is the FIRST BORN SON of Prophet Abraham/Ibrahim (pbuh) ?
 
it seems to me that this is kind of a "have you quit beating your wife" kind of thread and you're not actually interested in knowing what the Torah says - you're just trying to justify the denial of our right to our ancestral homeland.

furthermore, read the Text before you get clever:

[And] Abraham said to G!D, "Oh that Ishmael might live before You!"
But G!D Said, "No, but Sarah your wife will bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac; and I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him. As for Ishmael, I have heard you; behold, I will bless him, and will make him fruitful and will multiply him exceedingly. He shall become the father of twelve princes, and I will make him a great nation. But My covenant I will establish with Isaac, whom Sarah will bear to you at this season next year.

Genesis 17:18-21
Click to expand...

any questions, feel free to ask.

b'shalom

bananabrain
 
salaam/peace;

Muslimah said:
Salaam/peace ;


So , who is the FIRST BORN SON of Prophet Abraham/Ibrahim (pbuh) ?
Click to expand...

is it a very hard question .....who is the FIRST BORN SON of Prophet Abraham/Ibrahim (pbuh) ?


Pl. visit links to read the full article/answer.....interesting & useful.

Condensed:

Jehovah’s Promise


The Biblical Roots of the Palestinian Problem​
Prof. Shahul Hameed


... God's covenant was given to Abraham and to all his descendants; not merely to Israel.


Abraham is 'the father of many nations', not only one nation as can be seen from Genesis 17:3-6:


The Palestinian question



Jews argue that they are the people to whom God or Jehovah gave Palestine as an everlasting possession, that is because they claim to be the Children of Abraham through Isaac.




But here they ignore Ishmael, the first son of Abraham, and his children. (The Arabs are the Children of Ishmael).

They deny the right of Ishmael saying that he was the son of a slave woman Hagar, whereas Isaac was the son of a free woman, Sarah.


In fact, in the Torah itself it is clearly stated that the firstborn should get double portion of his father's share, even when his mother has a lower status.


Read the verse in the Book of Deuteronomy of (the Old Testament of the Bible and) the Torah, [Deut. 21: 15 to 17]: "



..... The point to be made here is that the Jews, Christians and Muslims are all followers of the same religious tradition; and those in the Middle East irrespective of their religion are the Children of Abraham, whether through Ishmael or Isaac. Neither the Jew, nor the Christian nor the Muslim can deny this, since it is clearly stated in their respective scriptures.




....Isn’t it a paradox that the Jews who were the victims of a racial holocaust are now inflicting a similar racial holocaust on the Palestinians?


When the Zionist leaders accuse the Palestinians of religious fundamentalism and terrorism, the whole of “the civilized world” believe them.

But really, who could be more fundamentalist or more terrorist than the Zionists who openly encroach on Arab lands, demolish Arab homes, kill Arab men, women and children in the name of Jehovah?



&&&&&&


Jehovah’s Promise



We know that the Bible speaks of Abraham’s two sons: His firstborn was Ishmael, and the second, Isaac.


The Arabs are the children of Ishmael and the Jews the children of Isaac. The mother of Abraham's son Ishmael was Hagar the Egyptian, who had received a covenant promise: "I will so increase your descendants that they will be too numerous to count" (Genesis 16:1-15). Those descendants were Arabs, settling in Arab territory (Genesis 25:13-18).



But the Zionists argue that only the children of Isaac deserve to live in the Land promised to the Children of Abraham; because Ishmael’s mother Hagar was only a handmaiden of Sarah, so (they say) her children have no right to their homeland.(1)


The above claim of Zionism is deliberately aimed at denying their Arab brethren any right to the land of their birth.



It is interesting to see how the architects and believers in Zionism twist the divine command to establish their unreasonable claim. For this, they blatantly refuse to honor this law in the Torah, (indeed in Deuteronomy, the fifth book of the Bible):

“If a man have two wives, one beloved, and another hated, and they have borne him children, both the beloved and the hated; and if the firstborn son be hers that was hated: then it shall be, when he maketh his sons to inherit that which he hath, that he may not make the son of the beloved firstborn before the son of the hated, which is indeed the firstborn: but he shall acknowledge the son of the hated for the firstborn, by giving him a double portion of all that he hath: for he is the beginning of his strength; the right of the firstborn is his” (Deuteronomy 21: 15, 16, 17).


It is obvious here that the status of the mother of the firstborn does not in any way disqualify him from inheriting his rights (which is the double of what the other son gets, according to this provision) from his father.




But the Jews as well as some sects of Christians sideline this simple rule of the Torah, just for denying the Palestinians the right to the land which God gave them as well as to their brethren, the Children of Isaac (or Children of Israel).
 
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Muslimah,

what I find interesting about your posts is that you pretty much ignore the fact that zionism began as a secular, and not a religious movement, and you also seem to assume that zionism is incompatible with the existence of a Palestine with it, which is a fallacious assumption. Israel is also not a theocracy (unlike many Muslim countries) so arguing from Torah whether or not Jews have a right to the land may be relevant, but it's also ignoring the simple fact that a Western democratic nation called Israel currently exists in that location. For example, recently Israel decided to recognize same-sex marriages made in other countries, which going by Torah wouldn't be okay.

I think you're also ignoring the stance of the current Palestinian regime on Israel, which most certainly has no interest in existing along with the nation of Israel (Jews on the other hand generally are at this time more interested in negotiation and diplomacy and even having both Palestine and Israel side by side.) For more information on the Hamas-led gov't's views on the nation of Israel, this blog entry, in addition to detailing, also links to a number of news sources that cover the issue:

Jewschool » Blog Archive » What’s The Last Straw?

Dauer
 
With all due respect to Judaism, I myself am curious about the legitimacy of an Israeli state. All I have ever heard about it is that it is God's promised land to his promised people but I find two things wrong with that. One, as you said, Dauer, the Zionist movement was originally secular and the current Israel is also secular, so to base legitimacy claims in a religious text seems false (I'm sure that this is my lack of education on the matter and not truly an issue - so please correct me :eek: ) and the second thing wrong with that claim is that (which whether or not Israel itself uses it, other people - such as my Grandfather :D - certainly do) it is based on a religious text, something of FAITH and BELIEF. And that means that it is not necessarily true. Maybe it is. Or maybe it's symbolic (as I believe). Or maybe it's just myth. In any case, nothing to go grabbing land over.

But then again, I do recognize my ignorance on this matter, and let me say again that I ask these questions with humility and respect. If instead of answering in full, someone could direct me to a source of unbiased knowledge, that would be cool too.
 
Salaam/Peace to u & all;

dauer said:
Muslimah,

what I find interesting about your posts is that you pretty much ignore the fact that zionism began as a secular, and not a religious movement,.../quote]

may be but many Jews & Chrsitians blindly support Zionists becasue they believe it's their religious duty. Chrsitians believe Jesus (p) won't come back till all Muslims are gone /massacred from that holy land.



In another forum , a Christian told me he does not hate Muslims but he thinks regarding Bible Jews must have that holy land & gentiles are to be killed to fulfill the prophecy. He said he feels sorry for killing of innocent people but there is no option....God's promise must be fulfilled & gentiles .i.e Muslims will have to be the subject of killing.


Another Chrsitian told me , they support jews because of guilty conscious i.e. holocaust. I asked him if in future Christian will do everything for Muslims out of guilt because of Iraq war ....he did not reply to that .


I think, many Jews & Christians need to know that God did not say them to kill all Muslims including kids in Palestine.
Click to expand...
 
Salaam/peace;

News u won't find on CNN

Deir Yassin: The Agony : Video -

On April 9 1948, the small muslim village of Deir Yassin just outside Jerusalem was attacked by Jewish Israelis, and 100 unarmed civilians massacred.


Deir Yassin: The Agony

===

1-NW-New.jpg



Mass protest by anti-zionist Orthodox Jews against the existence of the State of "Israel":

Over ten thousand Orthodox Jews led by dozens of prominent Rabbis gathered outside the "Israeli" Consulate in New York City on Thursday, November 9, 2006, to protest against the existence of the State of "Israel"


http://www.nkusa.org/activities/demonstrations/2006Nov9.cfm


The Rabbis stressed that “Jews are required to be loyal citizens in all the countries that they reside.

The Jewish people are forbidden to rebel against any nation - the existence of the State of “Israel” is a constant rebellion and breach of this command and oath of the Almighty.”


Leading Rabbis elaborated on the fact that the continuation of the existence of the State of “Israel” has brought to the constant escalation of sins against the Creator.


Also, it has brought about the unabated ruthlessness and barbarity being committed against humanity.

want to get the newsletters ?

http://www.nkusa.org/forms/signup.cfm
 
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muslimah,

you are a anti-semite. you are spouting the worst kind of ill-digested claptrap and propaganda. i addressed your point about ishmael - which you have totally ignored, presumably because you're not that interested in actual dialogue. don't presume to tell me what is in my own sacred texts. i know a damn sight better than you.

secondly, zionism. zionism is not one monolithic entity. like dauer said, it started as a secular movement. however, there are secular, leftwing, rightwing, religious and ultra-religious jewish zionists, just as there are non and even anti-zionists from all these sections. the group you are showing in the picture is called "neturei karta" and they are less than 5000 strong. they consider themselves and people who dress like them to be the only proper jews - and they are so appalled by the idea of a non-religious state of israel (which is what we have) that they are prepared to cosy up to people who want to destroy it. they are considered by the vast majority of jews to be the worst kind of traitors, hypocrites and lickspittles who would be happy to see the rest of us murdered so they could make their point. so when they say "judaism says", they mean less than 1/2400th of the world jewish population says and their "prominent rabbis" are prominent only in their own propaganda. you are of course free to consider them our representatives if it makes you feel better about your bigotry.

thirdly, you may not like some of the things israeli governments, its army or its representatives may have done (and indeed there are quite a few of them that i think were stupid, counterproductive, immoral or all three) but to compare the situation of the palestinians to what jews went through in the holocaust is quite simply breathtakingly ignorant. answer me this:

are there any gas chambers in the west bank or gaza?
are there any mass graves?
are there any medical experiments being done?
are there camps full of emaciated, dysentery-ridden, striped-pajama wearing palestinians with israeli tattoos on their arms?
has any representative or official of any israeli government stated that palestinians are "racially inferior" and that their extermination - not expulsion, not oppression, but extermination is government policy, let alone practice?

the answer to all these things is NO - and that means that the accusation is false. moreover, by making it, you betray a complete lack of understanding of the problem. the palestinians i know are fed up with people like you who hold them up as a convenient banner and cause, but fail to do anything to actually help them. incidentally, you may want to ask the same things of the governments of syria, sudan and iran. you may also want to ask the governments of syria, lebanon, egypt and jordan why most of the palestinians in their countries are still in refugee camps more than 50 years after the nakba. friends? HAH.

fourthly, it is not the fault of the jews that there are some crazy christians out there who think that this is all part of the plan before jesus comes back. these guys are no friends of ours. they expect us all to die in the war of armageddon or be converted. the fact that they happen to believe this bilgewater is not our responsibility, although it is increasingly becoming our problem.

i am not interested in continuing this discussion and will be reporting you to the moderators.

b'shalom

bananabrain
 
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