What made god?

wil

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Namaste 17th.

I think the issue is the definition of G-d.

I don't think 'He' exists either.

I don't thnk 'He' will ever be dropping down and giving you a bag of potato chips.

I do think G-d always existed.

I do think G-d is all there is.

So to me you are asking what made all that is.

I say nothing. Nothing made G-d.

All there is always existed.

To me, the issue is getting hung up on the Sunday school version of the anthropomorphic G-d throwing lightning bolts and locusts and handing out bags of potato chips. If one stays in that role the only answer one has is, you gotta have faith...its in the book...it is you disbelief that is a problem...

But we can transcend that and realize that G-d can only do for us what G-d can do through us...and in that find that every bag of potato chip we've ever been given, ever purchased, or ever ate...

was provided by G-d!
 

Quahom1

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Namaste 17th.

I think the issue is the definition of G-d.

I don't think 'He' exists either.

I don't thnk 'He' will ever be dropping down and giving you a bag of potato chips.

I do think G-d always existed.

I do think G-d is all there is.

So to me you are asking what made all that is.

I say nothing. Nothing made G-d.

All there is always existed.

To me, the issue is getting hung up on the Sunday school version of the anthropomorphic G-d throwing lightning bolts and locusts and handing out bags of potato chips. If one stays in that role the only answer one has is, you gotta have faith...its in the book...it is you disbelief that is a problem...

But we can transcend that and realize that G-d can only do for us what G-d can do through us...and in that find that every bag of potato chip we've ever been given, ever purchased, or ever ate...

was provided by G-d!

Interesting. Yet the Bible cautions us to take care when a stranger knocks at the the door, we never know when we might be entertaining angels...(they could even have a bag of chips).
 

taijasi

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Interesting. Yet the Bible cautions us to take care when a stranger knocks at the the door, we never know when we might be entertaining angels...(they could even have a bag of chips).
This quote, incidentally, is Sean Penn's saving grace in a sermon he preaches in `We're No Angels,' also starring Robert DeNiro. Quite a funny movie, featuring these two as escaped convicts, posing as priests. Most likely based on the much earlier film of the same title, featuring Humphrey Bogart and Peter Ustinov, who similarly deceive a family of shopkeepers, as I recall.

In both instances, the convicts redeem themselves in various ways. Oh! And Demi Moore is in the newer version, in one of her early roles. Good flicks, both ... highly recommended!

~Zag
 

Quahom1

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This quote, incidentally, is Sean Penn's saving grace in a sermon he preaches in `We're No Angels,' also starring Robert DeNiro. Quite a funny movie, featuring these two as escaped convicts, posing as priests. Most likely based on the much earlier film of the same title, featuring Humphrey Bogart and Peter Ustinov, who similarly deceive a family of shopkeepers, as I recall.

In both instances, the convicts redeem themselves in various ways. Oh! And Demi Moore is in the newer version, in one of her early roles. Good flicks, both ... highly recommended!

~Zag

Yeah, makes one hope there is hope for the rest of us...ordinary people capable of extraordinary feets...
 

Dondi

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Infinity is such a paradox for us, because we judge things in cycles. Yet it is not that hard for us to imagine that time has always existed, and will continue to exist in eternity future. We are just finding it hard to place ourselves along that timeline. The 20 billion years since the dawn of our universe is not eternity, yet for us, it might as well be, since our lives do not even encompass a hairsbreath of that enormous span of time.

Maybe time is not a linear as we believe it to be. I've heard it say that time is really an illusion, a concept man has invented. I've heard of people who have had NDEs say that while in that state there was no sense of time, but an overwhelming sense of oneness with everything else. Now some will claim that maybe it is merely because the glands in the brain that control our sense of time and space were affected or suppressed during the NDE. But suppose it is our brains that is limiting our experiencing eternity, and that once free from the shackles of the limited physical world we enter into a place where the moments of time and space collide. That eternity is really a loop, in and around itself. After all, Einstein's theory states that time is relative anyway.

If God exists, then He exists in that realm. Trouble is, in the limited of our time/space universe, we have no means of physically touching the eternal.
 

wil

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Trouble is, in the limited of our time/space universe, we have no means of physically touching the eternal.
Namaste Dondi,

I am not pointing this at you, just at the statement. Variations of this abound, that us in our limited state cannot fathom or hope to understand..yadda yadda yadda..

It is true! As the statement itself limits us, as do all affirmations of this type, I can't, I'm not worthy...self fullfilling prophecies all.

Folks touch it all the time, we all glimpse, we've all read stories of folks that have more than glimpsed...

I think if we start agreeing that this understanding is attainable...more will attain it.
 

Dondi

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Namaste Dondi,

I am not pointing this at you, just at the statement. Variations of this abound, that us in our limited state cannot fathom or hope to understand..yadda yadda yadda..

It is true! As the statement itself limits us, as do all affirmations of this type, I can't, I'm not worthy...self fullfilling prophecies all.

Folks touch it all the time, we all glimpse, we've all read stories of folks that have more than glimpsed...

I think if we start agreeing that this understanding is attainable...more will attain it.

I was speaking in terms of the scientific measurements, which measuring in a 3D + time dimension would not be able to directly detect dimensions beyond this. It would be akin to 2 dimensional being trying to conceptualize a 3 dimensional world. Now scientists are telling us that there may be up to 10 existing dimensions. How can we even comprehend them.

But then if we have the eyes of faith....
 

InLove

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Dondi said:
I was speaking in terms of the scientific measurements, which measuring in a 3D + time dimension would not be able to directly detect dimensions beyond this. It would be akin to 2 dimensional being trying to conceptualize a 3 dimensional world. Now scientists are telling us that there may be up to 10 existing dimensions. How can we even comprehend them.

But then if we have the eyes of faith....

Maybe we can skip a step or two? ;)

InPeace,
InLove
 

pfw

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As I understan it... I'm going home now, bye... Being serious my view is this; complexity comes from simplicity (this is constantly shown to us by evoultion, the big bang, computer programming... they all result in complex forms from simple beginings). God is something so simple the human mind is to complecated to understand so we've gone and dressed it up with a lot of cleaver symbols and metaphores, patted ourselves on the back and congratulated ourselves on how cleaver we are, gone to war and enslaved and persecuted whole nations for daring to think differnetly about god that we do. I believe god exists, I just think we'd all be better of if none of us did tho.
 

17th Angel

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I liked that post. Basically saying, that it is far more simple than we imagine, because we imagine complicated situations, this must have an answer, so must this and this... And we dive deeper than we need to? Why? Because simple doesn't please us. I could go along with that..

But, you believe it would be better if we all didn't believe in god? Then, how would you be able to abide by his rules? Or do you think if people didn't believe in god, there wouldn't be wars and arguments and such? But would it eliminate crime? ;) And there I go making something simple, more than simple.
 

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Actually that a good question, mainly cos I only partly explaind my self. Don't think it would stop war (just make us a little more honest as to why we're going to war...). The main reason why I think we'd be better off not knowing about or beliving in God is; with out the promise of an afterlife maybe we'd actually get on with this one a lot better- if we knew/believed we only had this one chance at life/existance its just possible we'd actually think a bit more before taking some rash action (on a global as well as individual level). Maybe I'm not expressing myself properly here...
 

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Man is finite and cannot begin to fathom the thought of a real uncreated and all powerful and sovereign Creator God. It boogles the mind to think of something that is and always was. We cannot concieve such a thing. It hurts the mind to try and grasp such and idea. But, the obvious remains: We are not God - His thoughts arent our thoughts and our ways arent His ways. Thinking about the attributes of God should leave us in a prostrate state where we're left to only submit to His surpassing greatness and worship. But, because we like things our own way and will not submit, we ask questions like this - namely, "who made God?" in the hopes that we will find a sufficing enough answer whereby we can appease our conscience that testifies to us that we ought to submit to God.
 

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And to answer you other question, 'how would I be able to abide by his rules'- assuming God exists etc, which set of his rules am I supposed to live by today? which one of the religions, all claiming the one and only truth and the only path back to God am I supposed to follow? He certaily seems to be quiet on the subject when I ask- so does that mean none of them or any one of them I take a fancy to or make my own up? (He doesn't seem to be answering that one either so I'm going with the latter- If that turns out to be wrong, and I get punished when I die for it, I'll be sending Him a stifly worded letter of complaint...)
 

17th Angel

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Actually that a good question, mainly cos I only partly explaind my self. Don't think it would stop war (just make us a little more honest as to why we're going to war...). The main reason why I think we'd be better off not knowing about or beliving in God is; with out the promise of an afterlife maybe we'd actually get on with this one a lot better- if we knew/believed we only had this one chance at life/existance its just possible we'd actually think a bit more before taking some rash action (on a global as well as individual level). Maybe I'm not expressing myself properly here...

Who beats the drum? Who lines up his toy soldiers and then sends them off to die? The leader of that particular country? He I would say is the one that decides... But he like every other man with that much power, is corrupt, blinded by greed and personal agendas.... This is not a man of god. He may say he is a man of god, when it counts.... But he is a man of himself. So god or not, he would still act on his own judgements and thoughts.

I find that interesting, you think if we believed, that we only had one life, one shot we would be more honest and more law abiding? So take me, for example, I believe after I die, I decompose, and that is my end, my demise, nothing else happens. I have gone, and never to return. But I am far from honest... I will lie.. given the opportunity to get away with something, then I will jump at it, if I know I can get away with it. I will cheat, lie, be selfish... All the "not to do" things. But I do this, because I believe that there is nothing more to this life, so I get mine. If I truly with all my conviction believed that one day I would be stood infront of the throne of the king of kings... and that he truly existed, maybe I would be more obediant? Maybe that is what the powers of the past wanted the people to be? All Latin bibles? Cannot read or write? Obey what I read from this book and you shall be saved.

-edit--

So you believe in god? But, you make up your own rules? Isn't god your leader and saviour? To disobey commands from a leader.... That's not good news is it? Please, do not think I am getting at you, but you are quite a unique christian.. I have never heard a christian say that he/she wished no one believed in god, or because he hasn't physically told you what to do, you will do what you wish to do... Even though you have your bible? And if you believe in god and the whole christian way, isn't the bible his guidelines? Which is exactly like me... I want physical evidence, I want his presence to appear to me.. But, that would be just to make me believe in him... Then I would abide by his book (his rules) But because he doesn't I don't believe at all he is there... So if we take it your way, you just believe he hasn't got time for you? Or can't be bothered to answer you? Why would that be? The only conclusion I can come to, if we say this god of love really existed, is because the questions you ask, may already be written down for you...
 
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