Dear Sirs

Discussion in 'Christianity' started by InLove, Feb 25, 2007.

  1. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    ... Everything the good man is suffering through God he is suffering in God, and in suffering my suffering in God, God is my suffering, my suffering God.

    Eckhart: The Book of Benedictus
     
  2. Ciel

    Ciel in essence

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    Dear Sirs,

    I have now closed my doors to you,

    For you who suffer God

    And would proclaim God to suffer

    In your likeness

    I would to offer God liberation.

    - c -
     
  3. InLove

    InLove at peace

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    "To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven..." --Ecclesiastes 3:1 (and the Byrds :))


    InPeace,
    InLove
     
  4. flowperson

    flowperson Oannes

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    Dear Sirs:

    Get Down...Get back up...Kiss yourself.

    James Brown
     
  5. China Cat Sunflower

    China Cat Sunflower Nimrod

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    Hey Deb,

    I'm not good at this stuff.

    I liked the poem, but it bummed me out. I used to write poetry when I had more pain in my life, but things have straightened out for me. In some ways, though, I sometimes think about wishing for a little pain stimulus to reactivate the muse, but then...pain sucks! I've got tension. I mean, there's tension between all the opposite urges in life: kinda the Tao thing where everything contains a little bit of the other, but I've made peace with it and I don't want to go back. I dunno, being sensitive has its rewards, but I need a filter or else I'll carry the weight of the whole world, and I don't wanna. I've got a family and concerns of my own. But, and still, I care.

    Thanks! You're beautiful! I love it!

    Chris
     
  6. Cage

    Cage Spirit Guided

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    InLove, that was one of the most beautiful things I've ever read. You are a truly beautiful soul.

    Thank you,

    James
     
  7. InLove

    InLove at peace

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    Just one more thing to do before I log out for the day. And that is just to say that Cage, my brother, I think we may be kindred spirits.

    InPeace,
    InLove
     
  8. Cage

    Cage Spirit Guided

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    :p

    Love ya,

    James
     
  9. YO-ELEVEN-11

    YO-ELEVEN-11 Watcher

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    2 words for u.

    "simply beautiful"

    :)
     
  10. path_of_one

    path_of_one Embracing the Mystery

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    It brought tears to my eyes, In Love. Beautiful expression...
     
  11. cyberpi

    cyberpi Interfaith Forums

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    I read it many times to be sure. I must want to bring rain to a parade, but I don't. Yet this egg is now painted with so many stripes. Not just here, but everywhere. I must be Templeton the rat to respond to it now. I deplore it. I absolutely love that you expressed it, and I hate the message. I speak from my heart because I once painted it too. I discovered that it was wrong, it is a lie, it is out of phase, it kills Faith... it is what locks the door for whoever makes it their own. It shuts people out. It shuts God out. Consider this a spoken judgement if you will... not that the praises weren't. It is my frosty fingers that are typing it. Hate me if you must... in your eyes it must be my evil to type such a disrespectful thing. Surely you will think that I locked the door. Now I stand condemned by your words. It is what shut the door. If not a word, then what? What is left? You do not want to hear my spoken condemnation anymore... if there were such a thing. So I will be the bad guy... now I've done it. I easily forgive you, but I do rebuke that message. I submit: Not with God does a word ever hurt you... and no word spoken will God not hear.
     
  12. InLove

    InLove at peace

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    cyberpi--

    I don't understand. Can you please explain further? I want to know what you mean.

    I am wondering if there is a misunderstanding of some kind on my part.

    InPeace,
    InLove
     
  13. InLove

    InLove at peace

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    Hi cyberpi--

    I don't understand what the bolded part means. What is the egg, and what do the stripes mean? Why do you hate the message? I am asking because I kind of hated it, too, in a way. As I said, it was a bit frightening for me to post it. (And I don't think you're a rat, either. :))
    I need to know what you mean by "it"? What do you think the poem says, and how does its message destroy faith? Some of your words here mirror some of my own feelings, so I would like a chance to understand and address your concern, if possible.
    Thank you for speaking openly with me, and I look forward to your response. I agree that words only hurt us insofar as we allow it, and of course God hears everything. :)

    InPeace,
    InLove
     
  14. Paladin

    Paladin Purchased Bewilderment

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    Okay, I've hesitated to post on this one, but feel it is now time.
    Cyberpi in the character role of "Templeton" serves an important function indeed as his response is both visceral and honest. Just as In Love's poem reveals both deep pain and a willingness to bring forward that which if left untouched can be poisonous. To watch the different levels of understanding and cultural value memes interact in this way is very instructive and quite profound.
    In Love demonstrates the power and nobility of "Defenselessness" in which she bravely brings forth that which was inside herself, knowing that it is quite possible she could be derided for her views, and knowing full well that there is really, ultimately nothing to defend. This is what makes her both tenderly vulnerable, and Divinely invulnerable at the same time.
    Cyberpi at the same time does exactly the same thing in his own fashion. Is this not facinating? Can anyone else see in all this interaction the reason why we are such a precious entity?

    Peace
    Mark
     
  15. InLove

    InLove at peace

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    Well, all I can say is that I have "Charlotte's Web" pulled up, and I am re-reading it. It has been a very long time since I read it, and maybe there was some symbolism or metaphor I never fully grasped before. I know it was my youngest daughter's favorite book. And I have always found that she is deeply insightful, so....I'll get back to ya after the play, guys.

    InPeace,
    InLove
     
  16. lunamoth

    lunamoth Episcopalian

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    I think it is a very honest, heartfelt poem, full love and humility. Who hasn't sometimes felt that they've been judged and pushed outside of faith for not believing things in just a certain way. Who hasn't had the experience of being told that they don't understand correctly, and until they get it right from those in authority, they can't approach the alter.

    Faith is choosing to trust in God...not making yourself conform to a certain narrow belief.

    I'll be at that humble gate, if the path there is the one of Love. I'll see you there.
     
  17. InLove

    InLove at peace

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    The path is one of Love, luna.

    And--been meaning to say: China Cat, I understand completely. Thanks YO and path_of_one (good to see both of you around more these days).

    Paladin: I see it. I do. It all works together, despite our different ways of seeing it. Templeton has his part, and so does Charlotte.

    cyberpi--I hope you want to contribute some more of your thoughts, but if you don't, I understand. Just for the record, I had no idea that you felt this way. You and I haven't personally exchanged many words, and I did not have you in mind at all when I posted the poem. Just so you know.

    I'll close this post with a quote I ran across this afternoon:

    Well, what can I say about this pig that hasn't already been said? I know a lot of you folks have come out to the farm and you've seen the words, and a lot of you have asked me, 'how could this have happened?'. I don't know, but it has happened... at a time when we really don't see many miraculous things. Maybe we do. Maybe they're all right there around us everyday, we just don't know where to look. There's no denying that our own little Wilbur... he's part of something that's bigger than all of us. And life on that farm's just a whole lot better with him in it. He really is some pig.

    (from Homer Zuckerman's character in Charlotte's Web) ;)

    InPeace,
    InLove
     
  18. Star Sarellia

    Star Sarellia Seeking Wisdom

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    I've read and re-read it a few times.. and it expresses itself to me in such a beautiful way.. and mirrors my own thoughts almost completely..

    How honoured I shall be to find myself also at that wooden gate, not too far behind you :)

    Thank you so much InLove for sharing it..
     
  19. cyberpi

    cyberpi Interfaith Forums

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    I was rebuking it. I am advising that it is a lie or a pit that people really don't want to be in. I am not offended; I am thankful you expressed it. I was trying to confront it head on honestly by being the 'sirs'. I'll try it sideways too.


    I saw it like an easter egg, a brain-child and well painted with praise and applause, but never-the-less one that I consider an aged egg with a hard shell now being passed around. Yes, a time bomb.



    By "it" I meant the letter or poem and the beliefs the author reveals... not the words for the 'sirs' or for me as Templeton. The poem does try to 'condemn' the 'sirs' per the gospel as if they were the scribe or Pharisees.


    I think the poem expresses some inner pains and a hope for them to go away or to be taken away. I don't really know who the author or the 'sirs' is supposed to be... I realize that you wrote it, but you also call it a poem and it reads like a nameless letter or the hint of something inspired. I read it from every angle, as if anyone were the author or the 'sirs', including Jesus or God. From every angle I see the author's pain and hope clearly. The whole thing is backwards. I will explain why line by line, example, gospel, any method that anyone will listen... or if nobody is interested, then I won't.
    It was well written and painted, an egg that I really, really did not want to go near from any angle. I love how it was expressed. I suggest the individual beliefs within it are not new to the world... they are everpresent. I have seen it expressed time and again now by people in many different ways, and I've come to see it where it misses its hope and lands back in it's own pain. I have backslided and landed in the same darkness expressed by the letter. There are some key concepts that I don't think any amount of personally shared words can show... well they can but a person doesn't learn by just reading them. For some things a person has to just do them for the right reasons, and then things are revealed to them within their own minds in their own way. I can see how expressing this letter would be a step towards that altar... expressing it may be an act of Faith for you. If so it is surely not overlooked from above. I suggest that whatever you benefit from it really came from God within your own mind... and will not be from anyone's words. If I have any true understanding it came from the same place. I notice that your action, the words in the letter, and your follow up to my words were contradictory... have you noticed that? Also your ears perked up and that is a very good sign for you, also contradictory to the expressed beliefs in the letter.
     
  20. InLove

    InLove at peace

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    Thanks for your response, cyberpi. I know it takes serious time and effort to address an issue like this. I appreciate your time and the tone of your posts. Somehow, even though you have identified yourself as that “frosty finger of condemnation”, I don’t see you that way. I may be missing something, but I just don’t feel that from you.


    I don’t think it condemns the “Sirs” themselves, but perhaps their actions. I am not even sure that “condemn” is the correct term. More like “reject” or “refute”. Maybe even “ignore”. Or how about “look past”?


    Yes, but for whom? If these verses were only for myself, then there would have been no need for them to be written or posted. The writer is not expressing a desire for the addressees to go away, only finally accepting their condemnation and moving on.

    .

    I don’t really know how to answer the question regarding authorship. I wrote it down, so for practical purposes, I suppose it is me. I know that some of me is in there. Sorry—that is the best way I know how to explain it.

    The “Sirs” are not Jesus or God. The “Sirs” are those people and ideas who condemn others according to their own interpretations of Scripture, thereby closing the door on the hope that Christ represents.


    If after reading my response here, you still are compelled to do so, then I will certainly listen as openly as I am able. What I don’t think would be wise would be to turn the discussion into one where we throw bits and pieces of Scripture at one another like flaming torpedoes. That is the kind of action the poem addresses, and it usually proves to be a vicious cycle.


    Yet it disturbed you so that you kept coming back to it. I have to wonder why. Maybe there is an element of misunderstanding here as well as an element of truth?

    After I read the words that were written, I also realized how many people have expressed these thoughts. Some have been burned alive for doing so. I am thankful that I live where this is not a concern for me, at least not yet. But it is for many people in the world, even today. Cyberpi, I don’t see how the words land in pain. They don’t for me. They lead me back to the treasure that is the promise and hope of the Christ. I concur that there are some concepts or revelations that are difficult to put into language, and that’s why I can only go so far with words. Yes, I can truthfully tell you that expressing these thoughts in public was an act of faith for me.


    I’m not sure what you mean by “contradictory”. If you mean responding to people who responded to the poem, what would you have me do? As I have said, I did not know what would happen with the OP. Maybe that is not what you mean. My ears perked up because I wanted to understand your comments, and because so much of what you said sounded a lot like how I felt when I read what I’d written. It sounded so close, yet so different.

    If I sound confusing, it may be that there are just some things about the words I don’t want to interpret for someone else, if that makes any sense at all. I think the words speak pretty much for themselves. But in this case, I thought there might be a real misunderstanding of the intent behind them, and I want to clear that much up if I can. If not, then they stand for what they are. And certainly, if you understand something about them that I don’t see, then continue to help me see it, if you like. We may not ultimately see things the same way, but understanding one another is a good thing. It can be painful at times, but I think it is worth it.

    InPeace,
    InLove
     

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