Love

Discussion in 'Christianity' started by lunamoth, Mar 2, 2007.

  1. cyberpi

    cyberpi Interfaith Forums

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    I think the point is that having Love is in the giving or the sacrifice and not in the reception. So it is a greater Love giving outside the marriage rather than within it, for then it is giving without reception. Most everyone Loves those who Love them.

    As I see it, service, marriage, or many other mutual relationships are really more about Faith rather than Love... but a polar circumstance or sin can result anywhere and have a need for unbiased Love: sacrifice, patience, forgiveness, etc...
     
  2. cyberpi

    cyberpi Interfaith Forums

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    I think love transcends the heart. Real love requires the soul.
     
  3. Cage

    Cage Spirit Guided

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    I agree^^


    Real Love comes from the heart, soul & mind according to Jesus "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind."


    james
     
  4. Tariki

    Tariki Well-Known Member

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    lunamoth said somewhere on this thread that the "instigator of love is always God". I think this is true. I think that when we are self-conscious of "loving", of "having" love, then we can be far from true love. There seems to be infinite reasons why any human being should first seek to "love", and as many paths towards the realization of a love that is genuine. From my own experience, my own part in the deal is to see just how little - if any - love is associated with myself. Looking within all I see is spite and envy, self-righteousness, judgement, pride, conceit...................for starters! And the famous phrase...."If I have no love I am nothing" (and all the definitions that follow) can burn as well as inspire. Coming from the Buddhist side - which to a certain extent sees compassion/love as being a by-product of wisdom - another short phrase suggest itself........."If I am nothing, there is Love". Anyway, one of the beauties of Reality - of grace - seems to be that we, imperfect as we are, are never-the-less choosen to embody and express a love that can never be our "own".

    At the moment I am caring for a partner who is recovering from an operation. All the time I have this consciousness of "doing good", yet the grace is that I AM doing good! The reality of the situation is held within the "arms" of Mercy.
     
  5. Ciel

    Ciel in essence

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    Tariki,

    Best wishes for your partners full recovery.

    love and peace - c -
     
  6. Star Sarellia

    Star Sarellia Seeking Wisdom

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    What I really like about the scripture of 1 Corinthians 13, is it describes what "Love" actually is. (At least from the perception of the bible)

    I think that Love is often confused with a variety of other emotions or feelings of goodness, security, wellbeing and general pleasure and here, love is seen as something to be received.. rather than something to be given.

    I can only speak for myself of course when I say that this un-conditional love is very hard for a mere mortal such as myself to participate in. (Though I still try) I examine things I have done.. things I have perceived as actions of unconditional love.. and often realize that I haven't acted with true unconditional love at all. For example.. I may have given a fairly large sum of money to a friend.. who needed it.. but deep down I still hope to be rewarded, even if it is only in their continued friendship.

    These passages are beautiful to me because they show in pure simplicity that God loves me.., regardless of how I may fail.. which is something that continues to confound me every day.

    Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. 1Cor. 13:6-7
     
  7. lunamoth

    lunamoth Episcopalian

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    Very well said Star; love goes out and we are called to unconditional love of each other. Where we fall short, grace covers the gap.

    Here is another prayer about love:

    A prayer by Saint Francis :


    Lord, make me an instrument of your peace.
    Where there is hatred . . . let me sow love
    Where there is injury . . . pardon
    Where there is doubt . . . faith
    Where there is despair . . .hope
    Where there is darkness . . . light
    Where there is sadness . . .joy
    Divine Master,
    grant that i may not so much seek
    To be consoled . . .as to console
    To be understood . . .as to understand,
    To be loved . . . as to love
    For it is in giving . . .that we receive,
    It is in pardoning, that we are pardoned,
    It is in dying . . .that we are born to eternal life



    I like to add, grant that I may not so much seek to be heard...as to listen.

    peace,
    luna
     
  8. lunamoth

    lunamoth Episcopalian

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    An interesting spin on that meditation Tariki; thank you. :)

    You and your partner are in my prayers for peace, strength and healing. You are certainly in the arms of Mercy.

    luna
     
  9. Tariki

    Tariki Well-Known Member

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    To luna and Ciel,

    Thanks for your well wishes. Fortunately the operation was nothing life threatening at all, but just involves restricted mobility for a few weeks. Close family, friends and neighbours are all taking the opportunity to visit and lend a helping hand.

    Anyway, thanks again.

    Derek
    :)
     
  10. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    2nd Peter 1:5-9

    Peter in instructing Christians that are perseucuted and enslaved...does not tell those so constrained to hate, condemn or be judgemental...does not tell them to worry about others...but to work on themselves...and how to get from faith to love... and at the end of 1 Peter ...interestingly, 5:12With the help of Silas,whom I regard as a faithful brother, I have written to you briefly, encouraging you and testifying that this is the true grace of God. Stand fast in it.

    KJV
    5And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; 6And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
    7And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
    8For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
    9But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.



    NIV
    5For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. 8For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    The Message

    5-9So don't lose a minute in building on what you've been given, complementing your basic faith with good character, spiritual understanding, alert discipline, passionate patience, reverent wonder, warm friendliness, and generous love, each dimension fitting into and developing the others. With these qualities active and growing in your lives, no grass will grow under your feet, no day will pass without its reward as you mature in your experience of our Master Jesus. Without these qualities you can't see what's right before you, oblivious that your old sinful life has been wiped off the books.
     
  11. InLove

    InLove at peace

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    Hi Everyone--

    This is such an interesting thread. I have been meaning to post here for a while now, but I've been rather busy on another one. There is some really good reading here.

    Star Sarellia, please accept my belated welcome! I have been reading your posts, and they ring out in sincerity. Thank you.

    I see that St. Francis is making the rounds on the boards lately. I love that prayer. I have it sitting right here on my desk. Thanks, lunamoth. You mentioned the Trinity (you are very brave). When I type the phrase, "The Spirit of God's Love", it is my way of embracing this concept with words.

    wil--that was a cool post.

    {(Tariki and Family)} Lifting you in Love and the Wisdom it holds. I don't think I will ever see another flock of birds without thinking of you, earl, and Thomas Merton.

    Well, I could just keep on going here, chattering away at everyone individually. But that would make for a very long post.

    I just called to say "I love you".

    InPeace,
    InLove
     
  12. Tariki

    Tariki Well-Known Member

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    InLove,

    This made me think of the so called ripple effect, where it has been said that when a butterfly flaps its wings in America the weather is effected in the UK. Well, only those whose knowledge of science is deeper than mine will know if this is more poetic than hard fact, yet the "ripple effect" certainly applies within the field of spirituality. The Buddha "awakens" beneath the Bo-tree 2500 years ago, and people sit in meditation classes in San Francisco in the twenty-first century...............Jesus speaks in parables beside Galilee 2000 years ago and millions pray in churches around the world. And hopefully the prayers and meditations issue in acts of love and kindness, in an ethics of empathy towards all others. (Perhaps we just have to make sure that the ripples never become mere circles of self-enclosure, locking ourselves within doctrine and creed)

    ...anyway, the ripple effect, and the dustbin of my mind throws out the following words, the ending of a poem by Philip Larkin......

    .....and immediately

    Rather than words comes the thought of high windows:
    The sun-comprehending glass,
    And beyond it, the deep blue air, that shows
    Nothing, and is nowhere, and is endless.


    :)
     
  13. Dondi

    Dondi Well-Known Member

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    wil,

    I've always viewed these verses as a progression:

    One builds of the foundation of faith...faith in God. Faith that says, "Here am I, Lord, What will thou have me to do?" It is giving permission to God to change your life.

    One adds to faith, virtue, which is a character trait...that something we don't realize in ourselves in the beginning, but is available to us through His Divine Presence.

    One adds to virtue, knowledge....knowledge in the form of experience of that Divine trait.

    One adds to knowledge, temperance...which is the practice of moderation, learning to exercise control of it, and incorporating that trait into our lifestyle.

    One adds to temperance, patience...for we are going to fall short of that trait sometimes, until we form the habit. How imperative it is to get back up from where we fall and keep right back at it.

    One adds to patience, godliness...that trait now becomes part of us, we are actualizing the divine quality of it in our lives.

    One adds to godliness, brotherly kindness...we turn that trait toward the common good of man, using it to bless others. Brotherly kindness is not automatic, but by allowing God to use us we can see the blessing of blessing others.

    And lastly, one adds to brotherly kindness, charity...which is the deepest form of Love. Whereas we couldn't of ourselves in faith incorporate that trait we longed for, now flows from us naturally. We struggle less to be kind and can love with a Divine love wrought in us through that progression of what we weren't....to what we are.

    "Sow an act...reap a habit; Sow a habit...reap a character; Sow a character...reap a destiny." - George Dana Boardman
     
  14. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    lol in here in the states the butterfly is referenced as being in Australia...wonder where everyone elses butterfly's are flapping. I still think it is more metaphor than science, that flap would be accelerating or decellerating a breeze that was a culmination of all the flaps which flapped it that way...

    I read it that way as well...each a springboard to the next, each larger than its predecessor.
    How about some L O V E acronyms?

    Living Our Values Everyday

    Lets Overcome Violence Everywhere

    And me just trying to hard...

    Luminous Ontology Venerating Ethers
     
  15. Star Sarellia

    Star Sarellia Seeking Wisdom

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    Thanks Luna, I haven't seen that prayer before, but will certainly have a look around for a nice copy of it. It was especially interesting as I have been recently reading some information on the St Francis of Assisi. A nice co-incidence.

    Thanks for the welcome InLove :)
     
  16. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    That is the actual depths at which man's love can achieve in a moment. It is not a love of the heart but of the soul. There is a huge difference between the two, (even though they may be along similar lines).

    However the day to day "love" is according to Paul a selfless love described in short as:

    longsuffering, kind, lacking in jealousy or pride, modest in behavior, not selfcentered, tolerant, non suspecting, honest, enduring, trustful, winning,

    and the greatest when compared to faith and hope (also endearing virtues).

    Emotional love waxes and wanes, but agape love remains steadfast regardless of personal feelings.

    v/r

    Joshua
     
  17. cyberpi

    cyberpi Interfaith Forums

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    I submit that a soul does nothing here without the heart. All action goes through the body, and all action in the body requires the heart. Every ounce of energy that I have ever moved, the smallest muscle or brain cell, was first moved by my heart.

    Not to say that a person can't pull the twig out from under a pile of rocks, or step on the gas to burn external fuel, but doing so required the body and every bit of energy that the soul directly touched was first pumped through that heart.
     

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