Discussion in 'Christianity' started by YO-ELEVEN-11, Mar 4, 2007.
Very meaningful story, Thomas. You have lead me to the Desret Fathers teachings before. They make a great deal of sense if you resinate, or meditate on them. You provided the explanation for this story, and I'm glad you did, because I did not understand at first. But holding my ground when I do not progress seems to fit nicely. It's not an easy walk, is it? Then, it's not always hard, its just that we don't always learn, or grow, or progress as fast as we would like to.
Thank you for the story,
Yes. I understand. I think I did a thread on the Biblical laws. Go to page 2 of threads started by YO-ELEVEN-11
But, get the point. Just what are you tring to get me to see or do? Out with it already.
Oh, I was not kidding. They really do seem like like they want to scare people into christianity.
No point really. I just wanted to make sure you understood. I'd hate for you to hear something about the faith and not understand. The message of the Gospel is foolishness to those perishing in sins. But, to all those who believe, it is God's power to save. Some people will always find the gospel foolish and a stumbling block, thats just the way it is. But, some people - namely, Christ' sheep, they will believe.
Don't worry my friend, I understand the gospel and really admire Jesus on many levels. Just to let you know, I read the bible cover to cover as a child and I am doing it again as an adult. On that same note my eyes have been open to other religions and cultures. Think of it this way, understanding the gospel is like primary school and it prepares you to deal with other schools of understanding.
Jesus traveled alot and spoke and communed with many peoples and religions.
By the way did you know Jesus had brothers and sisters?
Anyway, you are on the right path, just be kind to your brothers and sisters of other faiths.
Here's something from the bible to help you understand where I am coming from.
"Blessed are the peacemakers; for they shall be called the children of God." Matthew 5:9
Wow, you read the Bible cover to cover? You must have took a lot of diligence? Well, please keep 1Cor 2:14 in mind. Unless you are actually born again, the power of holy writ will only be "moral words" at best. I'm glad you heard and understood the gopsel? Do you realize your consequence for rejecting God's grace, right?
I do not regect GOD grace. GOD grace give you understanding.
Can not remember the verse. but
"lean not to thy own undrestanding but acknowledge him and he shall direct your path.
You may not understand other faiths, but pray for understanding of other faiths and see what happens.
You dont neglect God's grace? So you've decided to repent of your sins, you've stopped living for self, and have come to Christ that you may now live to God?
HeavenDefinition: The dwelling place of Jehovah God and of faithful spirit creatures; a realm invisible to human eyes. The Bible also uses the term "heaven(s)" in a variety of other senses; for example: to represent God himself, his organization of faithful spirit creatures, a position of divine favor, the physical universe apart from the earth, the expanse surrounding planet Earth, human governments under Satan’s domination, and the righteous new heavenly government in which Jesus Christ with his joint heirs are empowered by Jehovah to rule.
8"'This people honors me with their lips,
but their heart is far from me;
Figure it out.
at 2 Peter 3:13: "There are new heavens and a new earth that we are awaiting according to his promise, and in these righteousness is to dwell................heavens in this verse mean rulership,and the rulership that will take over manmade goverments is this one at Daniel 2;44
And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite.....................this heavenly goverment is now well established and the rightful heir to the throne is ruling,and it is Jesus ,Jesus has been given the kingship by his father Jehovah Daniel 7;13-14at the momment the heavens or rulerships of man are still ruling on this planet, but as the bible says, Jesus would be ruling amidst his enemies.
"Go subduing in the midst of your enemies."
(Ps. 110:1, 2)
Jesus called it a state of being, or a part of a person right now, we just can't experience it yet.
Jesus also stated Heaven was within us, as well as where the Father is, at the same time.
Revelations describes the make up of the physical part of heaven:
1- It is a gigantic, enormous city:
As big as the whole world known at that time, the whole Europe!... and tri-dimensional!:
"I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God... The angel who talked with me had a measuring rod of gold to measure the city, its gates and its walls. The city was laid out like a square, as long as it was wide. He measured the city with the rod and found it to be 12,000 stadia in length, and as wide and high as it is long." (Rev.21:2, 15-17)
12,000 stadia are about 1,400 miles, 2,2000 kilometers... The length of the whole world known at that time!... and the same length in high!... and it is not plane, but tri-dimensional... going up another 1,400 miles!...
2- The Walls:
Huge... and beautiful!:
"He measured its wall and it was 144 cubits thick, by man's measurement, which the angel was using. The wall was made of jasper, and the city of pure gold, as pure as glass. The foundations of the city walls were decorated with every kind of precious stone. The first foundation was jasper, the second sapphire, the third chalcedony, the fourth emerald, the fifth sardonyx, the sixth carnelian, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth chrysoprase, the eleventh jacinth, and the twelfth amethyst" (Rev.21:17-20)
Its thickness and high was about 200 feet (about 65 meters)... you have never even heard about a foundation of a Wall made with all kind of precious stones!... not just cement or plain stones, but chalcedonies, emeralds... the most beautiful precious stones known at that time... and millions of them!...
3- Twelve Gates:
Incredible!... each gate is a pearl of about 150 feet diameter!
"It had a great, high wall with twelve gates, and with twelve angels at the gates. On the gates were written the names of the twelve tribes of Israel. There were three gates on the east, three on the north, three on the south and three on the west. The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb... The twelve gates were twelve pearls, each gate made of a single pearl" (Rev.21:12-14, 21)
The 12 gates are the symbol of the 12 tribes of Israel, and the 12 apostles... it is a universal City, with people coming from the north, south, east and west...
4- The City itself is gorgeous:
Not only great and high, but shining with the glory of God... brilliant like a most precious diamond... and the street made of pure gold... like the most pure, transparent, diamond glass... and the 1,400 miles of it!... in length, wide, and high!...
"And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God. It shone with the glory of God, and its brilliance was like that of a very precious jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal... The great street of the city was of pure gold, like transparent glass" (Rev.21:10-11, 21).
5- The Lamb is its light... the splendor... the judge:
The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp. The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it. On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there. The glory and honor of the nations will be brought into it. Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life." (Rev.21:23-27)
Use your imagination!.... no night... the most splendor light!... the inhabitants are only those written in the Lamb's book of life (Rev.20:11-15, Matt.25:31-46).
Virgin Mary, the mother of Jesus, is the Queen of Heaven, because the mother of the king is the queen mother in all the kingdoms.
6- It is eternal:
Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations. No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him. They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads. There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever." (Rev.22:1-5).
The Tree of Life, beside the River of Water of Life, first pictured in Eden (Gen.2:9-10)... Paradise restored!... Fullness of life flows from the the Father through the son, the Lamb, by the power of the spirit... later in Ezequiel 47:1-12, appears in his vision of Healing Waters... every desire is met in the kind of fruit available
... and Eternity!... this glorious term is so huge we will never can even imagine it, until we get into the City of God, into Heaven!... and in all of this the Lamb is focal!, praise the Lord!...
7- This is how John saw Heaven through an open door: In Rev.4: 1 After this I looked, and there before me was a door standing open in heaven. And the voice I had first heard speaking to me like a trumpet said, "Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this." 2 At once I was in the Spirit, and there before me was a throne in heaven with someone sitting on it. 3 And the one who sat there had the appearance of jasper and carnelian. A rainbow, resembling an emerald, encircled the throne. 4 Surrounding the throne were twenty-four other thrones, and seated on them were twenty-four elders. They were dressed in white and had crowns of gold on their heads. 5 From the throne came flashes of lightning, rumblings and peals of thunder. Before the throne, seven lamps were blazing. These are the seven spirits of God. 6 Also before the throne there was what looked like a sea of glass, clear as crystal. In the center, around the throne, were four living creatures, and they were covered with eyes, in front and in back 7 The first living creature was like a lion, the second was like an ox, the third had a face like a man, the fourth was like a flying eagle. 8 Each of the four living creatures had six wings and was covered with eyes all around, even under his wings. Day and night they never stop saying: "Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty, who was, and is, and is to come." 9 Whenever the living creatures give glory, honor and thanks to him who sits on the throne and who lives for ever and ever, 10 the twenty-four elders fall down before him who sits on the throne, and worship him who lives for ever and ever. They lay their crowns before the throne and say: 11 "You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being." In the center of the Throne the Lamb... standing up but as slaughtered, yes, the Eucharistic Lamb, the reason and aim of the 25 songs of glory in the book of Revelation. (Rev.5:6).
Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing in the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. (Rev.5:6).
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