God's works, scripture based or not.

Discussion in 'Christianity' started by LeoSalinas22, Apr 2, 2007.

  1. Dor

    Dor Bible Thumper

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    Oh how true this is reminds me of one of my favorite stories.

    Romans 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. 23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body.

    Genesis 3:17 Then to Adam He said, "Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat of it': "Cursed is the ground for your sake; In toil you shall eat of it All the days of your life.


    I agree the world is not happy and as a child of God I can tell there are things Im missing that can not be found in this world.
     
  2. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    I think God was telling us we had to learn the hard way, not that He thought we were wretched junk.
     
  3. Dor

    Dor Bible Thumper

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    No Q the Earth was perfect in the beginning. After the fall is when death, decay, weeds and all bad things came about.
     
  4. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    eh, not quite. The creation of "earth" and "man" was "Good" in God's eyes. Lots of room there for perfect or not so perfect. (I took that right out of Genesis). :D
     
  5. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    Prior to Eve and the fall, Lillith was kicked out of the garden...prior to that, prior to making woman, Adam's daliances were none to perfect in today's eyes...
    Knowing the story behind this story...as I said, it seems a little less than perfect by today's standards.
     
  6. Prober

    Prober Give Us This Day...

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    I don't understand...

    Best regards,
    Mark
     
  7. Faithfulservant

    Faithfulservant Well-Known Member

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    Show me lillith in the bible :) She isnt there.
     
  8. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    I believe Christianity is based on Judaism. I believe that I get lambasted regularly for picking and choosing from Christianity. If we deny the texts that support 3/4 of the bible...what foundation does one base Christianity on?

    If we take the literal rules, and only use the words included. Adam and Eve had three boys, they went on to have children, with who? After one sees the only literal biblical conclusion, it follows that they took as wives their daughter/sisters. Now if we choose to come to some other conclusion, we are adding words and interpretations to the very first chapters of the bible...
     
  9. Dor

    Dor Bible Thumper

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    Well we know Jesus said none are good but God so you saying that he has room for improvement. There was no death, no decay, no weeds and crap before the fall. The garden was perfect til man messed it up.
     
  10. Dor

    Dor Bible Thumper

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    Show me where the Bible talks about Lillith and also show me where you get the beastiality cause I dont read that anywhere in Genesis. Must be natural tendencys coming through.
     
  11. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    Tis a natural stance to avoid the discussion and attempt to make it personal. I highlighted the text of the bible for those that couldn't read it without the highlights. Again there are more stories behind the stories, quite often one would recommend folks read the commentary, I am only doing the same. We as Christians often ignore the foundation of our religion, as we ignore the portions of the texts that don't suit our fancy. The difference is simply which texts one chooses to interpret how. The first two chapters of the first book contain all sorts of stuff we would rather not have in our heritage....to me it is a story that has a benefit and underlying truths. But if it is read litterally and is inerrant truth, it contains truths that those who read it litterally don't wish to accept. We don't like how our family tree is intertwined....according to the book.
     
  12. Faithfulservant

    Faithfulservant Well-Known Member

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    Im sorry but I find that so totally offensive it almost makes me sick to my stomach. The bit you highlighted had nothing to do with anyone named lillith the fact that you think its OK that Adam would commit beastiality shows me just how messed up in the head your thinking is in regards to Gods creation.. Maybe you need to really stop and re-evaluate your whole idea on whats good and holy because your idea of good and holy is gross and perverted.

    Im done with this one.
     
  13. pattimax

    pattimax Somewhat returning

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    The woman is tired of the life she is leading. Christ gave her forgiveness and then urged her to sin no more. She loved much. Jesus Christ was her Lord and Savior. When she left that pharisees house, she had a whole new way of seeing life. It was fresh and clean and the colors were more vibrant. (I sound like a commercial for detergent)
    Seeing all with the eyes of judgement is pure agony. Your circumstances are stale and dark and they are outlined in legalism. Legalim is what was forced on people before Christ died for them and set them free from man-made law.

    LOL Please don't live waiting to be dust.:)

    Try this:
    Legalism
     
  14. Prober

    Prober Give Us This Day...

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    Uh, yeah...that's weird.
     
  15. Dor

    Dor Bible Thumper

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    What commentaries....Barnes, Clarke, Darby, Gill, Calvin, Henry, Wesley, Smith none of the ones I have even hint that Adam was doing anything immoral. They all talk about the fact we are social creatures not anything about sex sorry.
     
  16. Dor

    Dor Bible Thumper

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    I figured out one of my main problems with this quote I read today.

    The bible is a book that was written by God containing instructions for how God's people should live. It is food for those who are living. The problem is, you can't feed food to a dead person. They won't eat it. It comes down to authority: non-Christians do not consider the bible to be an authority on moral matters. In fact, they consider it contemptuous.

    I just keep forgetting Im not talking to 100% christians just cause this is the Christianity board.
     
  17. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    FYI, as you are well aware, I don't find the books contemptuous. Much the opposite, I am not afraid of what they say or mean. I am not afraid to look behind the curtain or take off the blinders and actually read what is in front of me.

    Well after tonights excellent Good Friday service and yesterday's foot washing service...I am thoroughly looking forward to sunrise and Easter service with my family, despite the comments regarding my spirituality, or the current snow flurries.

    Cold winds may blow, but they won't dampen my spirits! My faith in G-d and His Son our Elder Brother and Wayshower is unshakable.

    Tonight we may be on calvary...but in a short while we will find the stone rolled away. The question is, will we have crucified our old ways and be resurrected anew....or missed the entire event?

    As I indicated before, to me that is one of G-d's works, scripture based or not.
     
  18. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    Seems it was you two that gave me grief for relying on others and not knowing my Greek, Latin, and Hebrew so I could translate directly. Well I haven't learned them yet and I still rely on others...but it seems to me relying on Christian scholars to interpret Jewish texts is nuts when the Jewish interpretations are there for anyone to find. Check out some midrash.

    Gen1 'male and female he created them', the story goes was Adam and his sister Lillith, she was too headstrong though, and wouldn't father his children except on her terms and off she went...prior to the fall.

    In Gen2 G-d decides to create a 'help meet' for Adam. How do you define help meet? Remember now, just a few lines later the perfect help meet is created and she is Eve, His new wife, the mother of his sons, his son's wives, and his grandchildren, quite the help meet.

    Yes I know that Gen1 and Gen2 are two different authors and written at two different times, but like slavery in this country or not giving the women the right to vote (if Lillith had hung around that would have probably been reversed...)...just because we don't like the way it was doesn't mean we ignore it, be shamed of it, our bury it...this is our history. We need to explore it, understand it, grapple with it, establish peace with it...so when it comes up again, we are ok, we don't stick our head in the sand and deny it.

    It is written.
     
  19. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    Easy gentlemen. Only room for one jerk, and that is me...;) You two simply must remain civilized.

    v/r

    Joshua
     
  20. Dor

    Dor Bible Thumper

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    Sorry Q. But the Bible still does not say Adam had sex with any freaking animals no matter how bad people want to pervert it.
     

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