God's works, scripture based or not.

Discussion in 'Christianity' started by LeoSalinas22, Apr 2, 2007.

  1. Prober

    Prober Give Us This Day...

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2006
    Messages:
    1,258
    Likes Received:
    0
    I've got the Bible for study and the Holy Spirit inside my head.

    I just figure I'm on a need-to-know basis with G-d. He's always told me everything I needed to know. Some things I don't need to know.

    My dad always said "well, when you get to Heaven you can ask Him."

    I don't see any problem with pondering imponderables. But when you try to make more sense out of something that makes no sense, sometimes you get nonsense.

    2c
     
  2. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2003
    Messages:
    9,906
    Likes Received:
    5
    Didn't see the animal thing. But that is weird.
     
  3. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Messages:
    22,708
    Likes Received:
    2,451
    Once you know the context the words are plain as day. From my discussions with many...many are aware and choose not to discuss it. Once the curtain is pulled back however you can't eliminate what you saw. Would one hire a plumber to fix an electrical problem, why would one ignore Jewish interpretations of their own texts?

    As I've mentioned before, for me when the scripture gets confusing I look to the symbolism to see if there is anything else I can glean. To me it appears we are not meant to be with our animal nature, or animal thoughts, Adam tried that, and didn't find a partner. Our true partner is another perfect creation. I find it interesting that Adam named all the animals as well. Just as we should name our less than tendencies in order to move forward in our lives. Jealousy, vengence, hate, negativity....and in this season these are the types of things we look to give up for Lent...not just Lent, but give up with the goal of not picking them up again. Traits that we often justify, use as tools and hold dear, yet ones which we should crucify, so we may be resurrected, born new without them.

    I do have any intention of perverting the bible, it is what it is, I intend to learn and grow from it. Those with ears may hear, and those with eyes may see. No reason for us humans to sit like those three monkeys...I believe we should be open, where one sees evil, I see G-d meant it for good.
     
  4. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Messages:
    22,708
    Likes Received:
    2,451
    Namaste Dor,

    After you've beaten this drum three times loudly, I started to wonder and searched the entire thread. My exact quotes are:
    These are my only words on the subject, dalliance and less than perfect. Then I simply highlighted the exact bible text, no other commentary on my part.

    According to Webster, ~dalliance- to dally, to play, amourous play, frivolous action, trifling.

    It appears you read Beastiality quite clearly in those biblical texts which were highlighted as you were the one who repeatedly indicated it was not there. Now if the text was perverted in your eyes, it was not perverted by me.
     
  5. lunamoth

    lunamoth Episcopalian

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2004
    Messages:
    3,915
    Likes Received:
    0
    wil, when I read your post it also seemed to me quite clear that you meant beastiality or some other perversion that most people would find offensive or distasteful. It's not just Dor having some kind of distorted view of what you meant.

    You of course are free to interpret that passage however you see fit, but I find it hard to believe that there are lots of people out there that understand it that way. You know that I don't take a literal view of the creation story, but I do find that it tells us something important and true about God and our relationship with Him. And most emphatically I do not think part of that truth is that the only reason God made woman was to keep Adam from engaging in beastiality. I find that idea very demeaning.

    2c
     
  6. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2003
    Messages:
    9,906
    Likes Received:
    5
    Not only women (what a blessing they are), it implies man being no better than an animal. I can't see the first man as being nothing but a rutting stag. There is no scripture for that, nor is it a work of God.

    v/r

    Joshua
     
  7. lunamoth

    lunamoth Episcopalian

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2004
    Messages:
    3,915
    Likes Received:
    0

    That too!

    Besides the idea that God is our Creator and that He created us out of love, created us good and gave us every good thing, Genesis is the story of how humans fell from innocence into knowledge and so began to judge, changing our relationship with God and each other. To me it does not make sense to suggest a disorder in the Garden prior to temptation and the 'fall' into knowledge of good and evil.
     
  8. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2003
    Messages:
    9,906
    Likes Received:
    5
    It also is a debasement for God Himself I should think. For God said He made man in His "image and likeness", and all that entails. We really have to be careful what we think about ourselves, because we are an image of God...

    v/r

    Joshua
     
  9. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Messages:
    22,708
    Likes Received:
    2,451
    I can see we are not willing to discuss it and not willing to go there.

    To me the exploration is not complete unless you turn over the stones you find.

    It is sort of like what I see in movies when someone is in charge of the house staff and walks around with a white glove checking behind those that are cleaning. After a room is deamed complete they reach up and slide their hand along a shelf.

    For some reason the staff feels this shelf is not worth dusting. You are correct all who read my question regarding Adam's motives, and the two biblical texts I highlighted are agast...as I was when I was told, and when I was pointed to the midrash. I denied that it was possible that it was there...and then I read it...just because I don't like it doesn't make it go away.

    In order or the explorer to complete his trip up the mountain, he must cross a chasm which challenges his skill and sensibilities...In order for Magellan to circumnavigate the globe he had to pass between the tip of South America and Antartica...where the oceans were adjusting their levels...

    To me the exploration isn't always easy, it contains challenges...and ignoring it does not make it go away...Just leaves one where they are, instead of moving forward.
     
  10. pfw

    pfw interested

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2007
    Messages:
    219
    Likes Received:
    0
    It's from, as far as I know, Jewish Biblical myths regarding Lilith (try checking out Myths And Legends Of The Jewish People-I think that's the title of the book- it contains a lot of 'extra Biblical' material- Some on here don't seem to mind quoting apocrithal books so whats the problem???)
    Doesn't actualy equate to bestiality, sexual perversion or anything nasty, naughty, perverted or evil as Adam hadn't actualy, at this time, eaten from the tree of knowledge; therefore had no idea or concept of right or wrong/ good and evil.
    :cool:
     
  11. LeoSalinas22

    LeoSalinas22 merely a shadow...

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2007
    Messages:
    719
    Likes Received:
    0
    i guess multiply and helper are the same word. (sarcasm):rolleyes: :cool: what ever happened to seeing everything thru our Father's eyes. with Spirit, wil, not with flesh. how can the Sone of God commit such abominations?
     
  12. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Messages:
    22,708
    Likes Received:
    2,451
    Namaste Leo,

    Tis exactly what I am looking for, alternate explanations.

    To clarify, we are speaking of Adam, which G-d made, not Jesus, Son of G-d.

    If one can ignore the midrash, and one does not like my metaphysical interpretation...how do you see it thru our Father's eyes?

    The short version is, G-d creates animals as a help meet for Adam, Adam finds no help meet amongst the animals, so G-d gives Adam Eve as a help meet.

    To me, animals are great for a lot of things, and women are wonderful, but I'm not likely to use a woman as food, or to plow the fields or fetch my ducks whilst hunting, I just don't see them as interchangable.
    Now if we are to be able to see this story with our Father's eyes...my question is: Why can't we give the same consideration for every other person, and every other story we hear in the world?

    ie G-d sees it as good.

    (PS, please to remember folks...I didn't write the story or the midrash which are thousands of years old...don't shoot the messenger.)
     
  13. LeoSalinas22

    LeoSalinas22 merely a shadow...

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2007
    Messages:
    719
    Likes Received:
    0
    i completely understand what you mean, but we cannot see thru His eyes if we depend on the logic of this world, He will crush the logic of this world because as Christ stated: And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. we must have a childlike mind to see thru His eyes. not a perverted fleshly mind. then you come up with Adam commiting abominations. oh and about Adam being the Son of God, check this,:
    Luke 3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.
     
  14. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Messages:
    22,708
    Likes Received:
    2,451
    So does your perverted fleshy mind see abominations, do you agree with my metaphysical interpretation or do you have an alternate view?

    So you are saying that Jesus is not the only begotten son? Does that make all of them sons of G-d in your eyes? All of us?
     
  15. LeoSalinas22

    LeoSalinas22 merely a shadow...

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2007
    Messages:
    719
    Likes Received:
    0
    of course my mind cannot imagine or comprehend that God would allow Adam to hump every animal in the woods to see if it is a good enough helper! i will have you know, as much as i love my wife, she doesn't only help me make love to her, she also helps me with my children in raising them, does an animal do that? didn't think so. she also helps me in taking care of me by cooking our meals. can an animal do that? nope. i can go on and on about what my wife "helps" me with, but i would be summarizing 10 years worth of marriage to you. you see, wil, it is not only with flesh that she helps me with, she helps me by keeping me sane by having someone to come home with and talk to and hold. no animal in the world can do that. that is what i mean by seeing thru His eyes. marriage alone is another of His wondrous works! also, read this

    Psalms 82 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course. I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.read all of psalms 82, it will knock you on your ass. it talks about "gods" that the Sovereign Lord accepts.
     

Share This Page