Discussion in 'Baha'i' started by Ziriel, May 1, 2007.
Hi again, Peter!
I don't understand what you mean by this.
Peter, exactly the same thing is going on in Iran today!
There have been literally hundreds of Baha'is executed for practicing the Baha'i Faith in the 28 or so years since the revolution there.
And all any of them would have had to do was recant their Faith, and all would have been restored to them.
One of the most notorious episodes was the hanging of twelve teenage girls whose "crime" was teaching the Baha'i Faith to the children of Baha'is!
One of these was a sixteen-year-old named Mona.
She requested to be last so she could pray for the steadfastness of the others.
When she arrived at the gallows, she kissed the noose and placed it around her own neck.
Baha'is have since celebrated her in song and film, and she's renowned world wide for her faith!
I've read and even seen a video clip about this. Very sad, they are angels now this is for sure.
I bought a book on Freemansonry yesturday and have been flicking through it. I'm going to quote some twisted words of Hitler which I think will help Baha'is understand maybe even an Islamic extremist point of view.
"To strengthen his political position [the Jew] tries to tear down the racial and civil barriers which for a time continue to restrain him at every step. To this end he fights with all the tenacity innate in him for religious tolerance - and in freemasonry, which has succumbed to him completely, he has an excellent instrument with which to fight for his aims and put them across. The governing circles and the higher strata of the political and economic bourgeoisie are brought into the nets by the strings of freemasonry, and never need to suspect what is happening."
It was in hitlers view that the freemasons were co-operative and part of a Jewish conspiracy to take over the world. It's quite clear that this view shows what a paranoid idiot Hitler was.
I would like to point out that religious tolerance was the brainchild of an ingenious prophet called MANI. After Manichaeism I believe developed hidden religious movements that were kept alive by the freemasons, the Sufi and influenced late developing Christianity and Islam. Mani was ironically Anti-Semitist in his theology (only theology).
If it wasn't for Freemasonry there would not have been as much political opposition to Hitler as some of his greatest political opponents were Freemasons that fort to rid the evil of world war 2.
I know that this view has broke Baha'is conventional view of things, as Mani is not regarded a manifestation of God. But as I have said if this be the truth it can reveal as it has done for me that the Baha'i faith is not part of any modern plot that is assumed by Islamic extremists.
Hi again, Peter!
Baha'i faith is not part of any modern plot that is assumed by Islamic extremists.
I agree. There are still those who maintain Baha'is were agents of the British and Russians and today since our administrative headquarters are in Israel that Baha'is are connected in some way to Zionism. It's just an absurd allegation that is no different from past allegations.
You are entitled to your own opinion. It appears from your posts that you view Baha'u'llah as nothing more than a mere philosopher.
But as Baha'i's, we believe Baha'u'llah is the Voice of God for this Day. So we believe Baha'u'llah's inspiration comes directly from God alone.
Except, of course, that He has no formal schooling whatever!
I said possiblity. I'm not a Baha'i I have however made an effort more then some to understand the religion. I'm only talking my thoughts, I appreicate the input you guys put in.
And BruceDLimber your right I dropped out of school at 16.
Even though I talk of Baha'u'llah agains't conventional Baha'i scripture doesn't mean I deny his prophethood, doesn't mean I'm not entitled to and doesn't mean I'm right. This forum is for discussion on Baha'i faith not submission to it.
Some of you are second generation Baha'is I wonder if this when religious elitism will start to form.
Actually, Postmaster, I am third generation. My Grandmother on my mothers side met Corrine True, one of the early American believers. Mrs. True had a summer home in Fruitport, Michigan and held firesides there. My mother was the youngest of 10 and learned of the Baha'i Faith from her mother. My mother lived the life but never was involved with the Administrative Order. We lived out in the country and was taken to the city of Muskegon, Michigan for youth classes. I was about 10 years old when I wasn't taken into town anymore.
All of that really doesn't matter, though, since each Baha'i must on their own volition, recognize the Station of Baha'u'llah and declare their acceptance of it sometime after their 15th birthday. I had to deepen as an adult as anybody that first heard of the Baha'i Faith. We are not born into the Baha'i Faith, but are born into a Baha'i family.
I would guess there are some that may think of themselves as elite because of 3 or 4 generations of being a Baha'i. It wouldn't be normal or useful, though. Everybody has to learn to live the life. Everybody has to chose to live the life. I am not aware of anybody that is looked up to because of whom their mother or father is. Each of us journey on our own journey. In another thread I suggested you join us. I didn't necessarily mean join the Baha'i Faith, but simply join us on our spiritual quest. I have many friends that have been influenced by the writings, but have not joined the Baha'i Faith. In fact, the whole world has been influenced by the principles that Baha'u'llah gave us.
Sorry Bruce I thought you made a sarcastic assumption to me then and that’s why I reacted like that in my last 2 posts. I think I mistaken your referring to Bahaullah.
I have come from a politically paranoid family (I have an uncle sympathetic to Hitler who is always trying to pass his views to me) thats why I have seek so hard to understand the roots of the Baha'i faith. Coming from a Baha'i family automatically takes heretical conflict out the equation and gives firm emotional foundations.
Hi again, Peter!
Glad we agree!
This one I'm not sure of.
If you're saying you've objected to or put down Baha'i scripture, I really don't remember seeing this! So either you really haven't do so in any serious manner, or I completely missed it.
It's possible, though, that you're using "against" to mean "in respect to" or "concerning"--which, of course, gives your sentence an entirely different meaning!
If you'd be so kind, please clarify what you meant here.
(I'm presuming we're both comfortable referring to and comparing scripture, BTW....)
Some of us are in fact fifth- or sixth-generation Baha'is by now, and in this i'm referring only to Americans, not Persians, who may well go farther back than that! (Not me, BTW; I'm first-generation.)
But I've seen no indications whatever that such folks display any sort of elitism! The Faith really isn't set up to promote, support, or allow such a thing, the more so given that no one can campaign or "run for" any sort of office in the Faith, and that the criteria for electing one are the virtues he or she displays.
Originally Posted by BruceDLimber
Except, of course, that He had no formal schooling whatever!
Not in the least, the more so given that I had no idea of your educational experience! Sorry if you misunderstood.
Fortunately, there's an easy way to tell when a Baha'i is referring to a Divine Messenger: please note that the "he" in what I said is capitalized. This almost always indicates it's referring to such a Messenger (though some folks--not I--occasionally also do this when referring to 'Abdu'l-Baha).
Granted, that's a somewhat subtle indicator, so I'm not surprised you didn't pick up on it. I can assure you though--and of course, meaning no offense whatever, that I wouldn't have capitalized a reference to you! :-S (Nor would you have fallen under the "whatever" rubric as you obviously did receive formal schooling.)
Amazing how awful our communication often is, even when we're really trying! . . . We're probably lucky we can connect at all.
O, would that it did!
But tragically, you're extremely mistaken about this, as the history of Baha'u'llah's own family shows: not only His [note the capital, BTW] younger half-brother, but at least one or two brothers of 'Abdu'l-Baha! Sad to say, much of the trouble and opposition they had to deal with came from within the family, from those closest by! :-( Indeed, Baha'u'llah's own half-brother tried multiple times to poison Him.
Fortunately, some of the strongest love and support came from family members, too! Bahiyyih Khanum and Mirza Mihdi (among others) are prime examples!
Seems to be one of those binary best-case / worst-case situations: it seems like everyone was either the grossest sort of enemy or the greatest imaginable supporter!
Actually, there is disfunction everywhere. My father was an alcoholic and a bigot. So I had a Baha'i mother and an angry drunk father. I chose to listen to the sensibility of the Baha'i directions. Others in my family didn't.
My oldest sister became a Catholic. My middle sister is an atheist. My younger brother is a ultra-right wing conservative (the scary kind. Probably similar to your uncle, both being fascist.) My baby sister is a fundamentalist Christian, the rolling in the aisle type, very charismatic and very demonstrative.
Again, let me point out that each individual has to chose his/her path. We do this every second of every minute of our life. God does not ordain where we are. We must chose. That is the free will that most of the religions accept, but deny by getting involved in mystic explanations for events. I believe if we nourish our soul with prayer, recognition of God and good acts our soul will help us by guiding us through those seconds and minutes that are so important. Sometimes it may seem as if God had a hand in it, but in reality it was our soul that was guiding us. He did have influence, though as He created the whole kit 'n kaboodle, but it is still left up to us and our willingness to use the rational and logical abilities He gave us so that we could know Him.
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