Documentary: Google and Power
- Thread starter dauer
- Start date
flowperson
Oannes
Hi TE...I'm totally with you on this one. It used to be governments that were dedicated to the control aspects of the populus and that is still true, but now this has been almost wholly privatized. Which goes along with the 80's mantras of "if it makes a profit it is good," and Gordon Gekko's unforgettable "greed is good."
I've been in a position to understand and see and know about what technologies developed at places like MIT's Media Lab in the 80's and 90's (under corporate sponsorship) were really all about, and now we're seeing the myriad effects in society at large. 9/11 and the war on terror were only the triggers for multinational corporations to implement these globalized snooping systems in earnest.
Those of you who believe that all of this is just benign marketing snooping, think again. That's only a misdirectional cover. Google is only the visible continental-sized iceberg. Think about all of the sites "powered by Google." So all of you who believe in the benign good intentions of corporate behemoths who strive more and more each day to know more and more about us and what we think, feel, and believe just keep on skipping merrily down your yellow brick roads whistling a happy tune once in a while.
Meanwhile ponder the fact that George Orwell's real name was Eric Allen BLAIR ! Or, better yet buy the DVD's of 1984 and Gattica and watch them both a few times. It will look all so familiar to you.
Thanks for the thread Dauer.
flow....
YO-ELEVEN-11
Watcher
Dang, never thought I would do this in a million years, but Dapz to 17th angel.
You are right about errthing. oops the ghetto came out. Back in the box you go.
You are right about errthing. oops the ghetto came out. Back in the box you go.
Francis king
Well-Known Member
Tao, ur objections are valid, certainly, but I think u've been reading too much solzhenitsyn and Orwell...
as far as I can see, this whole "totalitarian control where all dissent will be neutralised and the masses reduced to compliance in order to live within society" is already happenning, but it's not coming from Google and Tesco... I'm seriously more concerned about the spread of Islamic and Christian fundamentalism and China's global export dominance, personally...
do you seriously think we live in a democracy now? yes, in an ideal world the masses would control themselves, but the masses are, in the main, idiots, and not able to govern themselves... the majority of ppl out there need other ppl to tell them what to do and what to believe in because that is how they have been socialised and indoctrinated by society... ideals, ethics, scruples, morals... these things do not come naturally to us, as we are bred to be competitive, rich and successful... these noble intentions only come about through learning, and without ethics we cannot govern others...
what did winston write in his diary in 1984? " if there is hope, it lies in the proles", yet, as he and Marx both discovered, all the proles need to keep them quiet is bread and circuses... give ppl enough money to be comfortable and allow them their entertainments and the proles suddenly stop shouting about changing things...
you think that because you vote you live in a democracy? you think that ur X in the box really matters? You say urself that we're all run by faceless CEO's and big buisness? Spin doctors, PR ppl, advertising execs... that's who runs the world, polititians are just figureheads who try to appease both big buisness and Joe Public, and the majority of politicians are only in politics because it was good money and a raised public profile for them... so what hope is there for the proles?
as u say, tao we "still have the semblence of some degree of personal freedom of thought, action, employment etc. Tho much of it is illusionary"
illusory it is... u view the world differently dependent on what ur financial situation is... we don't live in the old soviet republic, with it's gulags and it's thought crime... we don't lock up intellectuals because they criticize government... well, not in england, or europe, or america, anyway...
yes, this behaviour happens in Africa, yes, they might still behave this way in China, but it is poverty and the rule of the iron fist that allows these practises to continue...
to my way of thinking, the world is becoming less enamoured by dictatorial regimes, free market trade means that buisnesses can compete with each other so that the likelihood of one large corporation achieving singular dominance is unlikely, ppl are becoming more socially aware, more aware of ideas such as corporate ethics, and less in awe of BOGOF's and loyalty card benefits...
it is good if it makes a profit... what is wrong with capitalism? look at all the wonderful benefits it has brought us...
social reformers and philanthropists brought us clean water, the welfare state, free education... where did these ppl come from? they didn't come from slums did they? they came from "good" (rich) families, well educated, well fed, with enough free time to sit and ponder...
without capitalism we'd all be living in tin shacks eating dog burgers and dressed in animal skins...
grooving in a cave with picts looks nice, but it's damn cold... and u can't google...
as far as I can see, this whole "totalitarian control where all dissent will be neutralised and the masses reduced to compliance in order to live within society" is already happenning, but it's not coming from Google and Tesco... I'm seriously more concerned about the spread of Islamic and Christian fundamentalism and China's global export dominance, personally...
do you seriously think we live in a democracy now? yes, in an ideal world the masses would control themselves, but the masses are, in the main, idiots, and not able to govern themselves... the majority of ppl out there need other ppl to tell them what to do and what to believe in because that is how they have been socialised and indoctrinated by society... ideals, ethics, scruples, morals... these things do not come naturally to us, as we are bred to be competitive, rich and successful... these noble intentions only come about through learning, and without ethics we cannot govern others...
what did winston write in his diary in 1984? " if there is hope, it lies in the proles", yet, as he and Marx both discovered, all the proles need to keep them quiet is bread and circuses... give ppl enough money to be comfortable and allow them their entertainments and the proles suddenly stop shouting about changing things...
you think that because you vote you live in a democracy? you think that ur X in the box really matters? You say urself that we're all run by faceless CEO's and big buisness? Spin doctors, PR ppl, advertising execs... that's who runs the world, polititians are just figureheads who try to appease both big buisness and Joe Public, and the majority of politicians are only in politics because it was good money and a raised public profile for them... so what hope is there for the proles?
as u say, tao we "still have the semblence of some degree of personal freedom of thought, action, employment etc. Tho much of it is illusionary"
illusory it is... u view the world differently dependent on what ur financial situation is... we don't live in the old soviet republic, with it's gulags and it's thought crime... we don't lock up intellectuals because they criticize government... well, not in england, or europe, or america, anyway...
yes, this behaviour happens in Africa, yes, they might still behave this way in China, but it is poverty and the rule of the iron fist that allows these practises to continue...
to my way of thinking, the world is becoming less enamoured by dictatorial regimes, free market trade means that buisnesses can compete with each other so that the likelihood of one large corporation achieving singular dominance is unlikely, ppl are becoming more socially aware, more aware of ideas such as corporate ethics, and less in awe of BOGOF's and loyalty card benefits...
it is good if it makes a profit... what is wrong with capitalism? look at all the wonderful benefits it has brought us...
social reformers and philanthropists brought us clean water, the welfare state, free education... where did these ppl come from? they didn't come from slums did they? they came from "good" (rich) families, well educated, well fed, with enough free time to sit and ponder...
without capitalism we'd all be living in tin shacks eating dog burgers and dressed in animal skins...
grooving in a cave with picts looks nice, but it's damn cold... and u can't google...
Tao_Equus
Interfaith Forums
lol....lol.....lol... great post Francis and I would find it near impossible to pick holes in what you say.
A long time ago, it seems, I was passionate about politics. I was Anarchy, Peace and Freedom Crass style. Then I read Voltaires short novela Candide and went off first on my own travels and then found my own garden to tend. My Cunnegonde still tends that garden but I came back to the rat race. But tho I poke my head up out of the hole here on a forum where people are interested I see in life and work just how easily sedated the masses are. They all on a soma holiday. I have no illusions as to the marraige of western politics and big business nor am I blind to the truths you point out that without capatalism things would be worse.
Where we differ is what the future holds. I genuinely feel a foreboding that the Nazi exterminations are going to be as a childs piggy bank to Fort Knox compared to the exterminations that lay ahead of us. The proles replaced by geneticly engineered drones with minimal requirements. The Rich and Powerful living in a world with a greatly reduced population, free to come and go as they wish without any complaing commoners to mar their nirvana.
We see every day how ruthless business is in the pursuit of shareholder profit over jobs for the masses. Profit is not bad of itself, I agree, but not at any cost. To the super-rich I find it hard to support the idea that is any longer profit that motivates them. It is power and power alone. You may believe that there is a healthy competition amongst global business. I do not. When you look at all the top companies that ultimately have some 90% of global transactions pass through their books you find that all the CEO's are members of the same semi-secret clubs. Like the Bloomberg group. Competition itself is an illusion. All we see is privately agreed restructuring,,, not genuine take-overs. I think there are as few as 3 'super-groups', the western, the russian and the chinese. There is little competition between them, quite the opposite. China and western fully co-operate. And Russian-China is doing increasing business together.
I hope I am wrong in that they are setting up to get rid of those they deem redundant. But many indications, not least their contempt for human life, leave me paranoid. So while I share your diagnosis on the state of society I do not share your prognosis.
TE
A long time ago, it seems, I was passionate about politics. I was Anarchy, Peace and Freedom Crass style. Then I read Voltaires short novela Candide and went off first on my own travels and then found my own garden to tend. My Cunnegonde still tends that garden but I came back to the rat race. But tho I poke my head up out of the hole here on a forum where people are interested I see in life and work just how easily sedated the masses are. They all on a soma holiday. I have no illusions as to the marraige of western politics and big business nor am I blind to the truths you point out that without capatalism things would be worse.
Where we differ is what the future holds. I genuinely feel a foreboding that the Nazi exterminations are going to be as a childs piggy bank to Fort Knox compared to the exterminations that lay ahead of us. The proles replaced by geneticly engineered drones with minimal requirements. The Rich and Powerful living in a world with a greatly reduced population, free to come and go as they wish without any complaing commoners to mar their nirvana.
We see every day how ruthless business is in the pursuit of shareholder profit over jobs for the masses. Profit is not bad of itself, I agree, but not at any cost. To the super-rich I find it hard to support the idea that is any longer profit that motivates them. It is power and power alone. You may believe that there is a healthy competition amongst global business. I do not. When you look at all the top companies that ultimately have some 90% of global transactions pass through their books you find that all the CEO's are members of the same semi-secret clubs. Like the Bloomberg group. Competition itself is an illusion. All we see is privately agreed restructuring,,, not genuine take-overs. I think there are as few as 3 'super-groups', the western, the russian and the chinese. There is little competition between them, quite the opposite. China and western fully co-operate. And Russian-China is doing increasing business together.
I hope I am wrong in that they are setting up to get rid of those they deem redundant. But many indications, not least their contempt for human life, leave me paranoid. So while I share your diagnosis on the state of society I do not share your prognosis.
TE
17th Angel
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Dang, never thought I would do this in a million years, but Dapz to 17th angel.
You are right about errthing. oops the ghetto came out. Back in the box you go.
Why do you people seem so shocked when I am right..... Oh well I think that is the 4th 5th time this week someone has said I am right... You're all coming around mwahaha.... Come to my side
Not sure what dapz means, but I'll take it.
YO-ELEVEN-11
Watcher
Why do you people seem so shocked when I am right..... Oh well I think that is the 4th 5th time this week someone has said I am right... You're all coming around mwahaha.... Come to my side
Not sure what dapz means, but I'll take it.
lol..
Dapz is like shaking your hand and complimenting on your point of view.
It's a sign of respect and sometimes a respectful greeting for people who are respectable.
17th Angel
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Yo eleven well thank you and dapz back at you