Steiner/Krishnamurti & the Order of the Star of the East

Bruce Michael

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Hi Friends,

As you may know Steiner had a problem with the Order of the Star of the East- as did many older members of the T.S., since its establishment was outside the three objects of the Society. Steiner was eventually vindicated byKrishnamurti over this affair. He was vindicated in the sense that K. himself dissolved the Order in 1929.
"In December of the same year the executive of the German Section, which did not include Rudolf Steiner himself, decided that membership of the OSE was incompatible with membership in the section led by Rudolf Steiner, and called upon all members to choose. With few exceptions all chose to abandon their membership in the OSE...." "The same executive then sent a telegram to Annie Besant at Adyar, calling on her to resign as president, to which she replied by cancelling the charter of the German Section...."-Rudolf Steiner biography by Stewart Easton With the foundation of the Anthroposophical Society Rudolf Steiner stayed on as teacher and guide but did not become a member until later. XXXBr. Bruce
 
according to what I heard... Leadbetter was discovered to like boys a bit too much at the same time as Krishnamurti decided he didn't want to be a guru...

Steiner wasn't a fool and saw it coming... clever ole steiner... besant wanted the glittering prize herself and thought she might get the gig when HPB kicked the bucket, and so stayed on even though she most likely knew about charles' fondness for the form of naked young boys...
 
according to what I heard... Leadbetter was discovered to like boys a bit too much at the same time as Krishnamurti decided he didn't want to be a guru...

Steiner wasn't a fool and saw it coming... clever ole steiner... besant wanted the glittering prize herself and thought she might get the gig when HPB kicked the bucket, and so stayed on even though she most likely knew about charles' fondness for the form of naked young boys...

Dear Sr. Francis,

From what I have read Krishnamurti had a lifelong stipend- which meant he didn't have to work.

Leadbeater had other candidates for World Teacher (in fact Christ incarnate) before K.

K when asked about Leadbeater described him as "evil".

Steiner said that he wasn't surprised that Leadbeater had made a "slip" considering the occult path he had taken.

Warm Regards,
Br. Bruce
 
Meanwhile, Bruce, in the real world, Leadbeater is known to have had problems with pedophilia, although I believe some of the rumours may have been exaggerated ... and I think he was absolved of certain accusations. Not the first time (or last) that someone in spiritual/religious circles has so succumbed.

But Masters KH and M are on record as having praised Leadbeater for his good work in the world, and with the TS. I think this was at Annie Besant's passing, as she deeply desired to know - and to have made known - that CWL was a overall a good gent after all. :)

Besant, too, while not perfect either (have YOU taken that 5th Initiation yet, Bruce? ahh, didn't think so), was nevertheless acting in the best way she knew how ... and things weren't easy on anyone, for much of the ordeal involving Krishnamurti, the `World Teacher Project,' and the business with the Order of the Star.

The fact remains, that although this whole episode is still greatly questioned in occult/esoteric circles, Krishnaji was never pronounced to be THE World Teacher (such is a mistaken notion, Bruce). If such terminology was used, it was IMPLICITLY understood that this meant he was selected as a possible candidate for overshadowing ... just as the Christ had overshadowed the Initiate Jesus (3rd Degree Initiate at the time) 2000 years earlier.

And things went well until Krishnamurti's brother passed, while at the same time he made certain choices of an occult nature (including the choice to follow the Deva line of Initiations - one of the 7, or 10, Ways of Higher Evolution) - so that finally there was no choice except to break off the experiments with Krishnamurti.

Except that Krishnaji took the initiative, as it were, knowing that the hammer was about to drop ... and dissolved the Order on his own. He occultly cut himself adrift from his own Master (KH), and the type of "occult surgery" which you have erroneously mentioned in connection with HPB, Bruce, was absolutely necessary in Krishnamurti's case (else it would not have been performed).

Krishnaji reverted to the teachings from a much earlier incarnation and began to teach his own special brand of Advaita Vendanta, yet he denied students the benefit of either himself, or any other figure, as an occult Master. ALL STUDENTS - regardless of the path they choose to enlightenment - NEED the benefit of a Teacher at a certain stage of meditation and development ... thus Krishnaji did REAL HARM to many of those who took up this business of "truth being a pathless land."

Certainly he taught many good things, but his Vedanta is a much more humble version than the real McCoy ... and all of this is to say nothing of the many Theosophists, devotees who had formed around him during his time with the Order of the Star ... who lost faith in the occult path entirely after the Star's dissolution.

Because of the problems created during this time, the Bodhisattva Maitreya, or Christ, chose to issue a brief statement, largely for the benefit of the above group of people (Theosophical devotees, and others), printed in `Through the Eyes of the Masters,' by David Anrias. In that statement, which was printed in 1932 and can be found online here, much of this mess is cleared up ... and words of positive encouragement are provided for the devotees in question. It is also made clear why the Hierarchy allowed all of this to occur, since they CERTAINLY knew what would be the likely outcome!

Now, I realize there is another perspective on all this. No one, perhaps, has fully and properly told the story from Jiddu's perspective. In all fairness, it would be helpful to know more about what he experienced, even at every step along the way. But I ask you: Assuming that he was indeed being prepared, even from his years as a youth, for this most difficult and strenuous work with Humanity's most evolved Soul ... do we really think we should be entitled to know exactly what he went through, being as how some of it was surely of an incredibly personal nature?

I think not. And one of our members (chakraman), in the past, has even shared something that he came across regarding Krishnamurti's own raising of the Serpent Fire. I've never seen the statement in print, but it was a bit much to take in, and I think the least we owe Krishnamurti is to remember that he never had the same opportunities that most youths have to develop on their own, as individuals, without being consecrated their entire lives for some kind of higher work.

Sure, it went well 2100 years ago for Jesus of Nazareth, but that's a different case, and just look at all the confusion that still surrounds it.

We often want to find a scapegoat. Or we want to vindicate our heroes, and overlook their vices, or their shortcomings. I have long wanted to do this with HPB, but I have always known that she had plenty of undesirable qualities ... and clearly, C.W. Leadbeater had a problem with young boys!

But he, too, was under a good deal of occult stimulation - for his own development ... and while I know nothing of her own, private affairs, I would trust that this business of being ordained did likely limit his social life, as far as relationships go with the fairer sex. He was a Liberal Catholic priest, for God's sake (err, literally) ... and for me, that's explanation enough for the pedophilia. :rolleyes: :p

We should either try and remember him fondly, and praise his good work, or else keep mum about these various shortcomings - and just pray that ours may be lessened, if at all possible.

If we want to read Krishnamurti's teachings, and find inspiration there, then what of it? I'm not saying he didn't make his contribution. But it is on record with the Masters ... that instead of retiring to the private life, to contemplate things in solitude, he chose to teach - and following 1925 or so, after he cut himself adrift of the Christ, the Masters, and of his true life's purpose/opportunity ... Jiddu K. was not following his proper Dharma in what he chose to do.

One day, we will be able to study this a bit more objectively, and maybe even learn something from it. For now, I just sometimes wonder what might have occurred had he continued to wear the mantle than had been offered ... and had the Christ been able to speak once again, increasingly and more often, openly, to the world of men.

Also, to the best of my knowledge, the statement in `Through the Eyes of the Masters' is the only time in modern times that the Christ has made His words known in so direct a fashion. An exception would be The Great Invocation, which - as most Occult students know - is an update to the `Lord's Prayer,' or `Our Father.' We may trust that, prior to publication, Christ gave His own "seal of approval" to this dictation of Master DK's, to Alice Bailey.

Namskar,

~andrew
 
The split between Theosophy and Steiner, which would eventually emerge as Anthroposophy, was already manifesting by this time.

Steiner published La Science Occulte in Germany in 1910, while a year before another work The Rosicrucian Cosmo-Conception by Max Heindel was published in the US. The latter work is largely plagiarised from Steiner's – and is so often the case bad blood between the two led Heindel to insituate he had been chosen as the mouthpiece of the Rosicrucian Brotherhood after their first choice failed certain tests (implicating Steiner).

Steiner's work was in fact a re-editing of The Secret Doctrine, stripping out all the oriental terminology as Steiner was an advocate of the validity of the Western Mystical and Hermetic Tradition, and was opposed to Theosophy's wholesale dependence upon pseudo-esoteric Buddhism. His use of supposed Rosicrucian terminology can be traced to HPB, also.

For interesting and enlightening reading, I suggest "Theosophy: History of a Pseudo-Religion" René Guénon, pub. SophiaPerennis.

Thomas
 
Just for clarity, Thomas, let's be clear that HPB never intended her Esoteric presentation to be equated with exoteric Buddhism, nor even is it really proper to just tack the word `esoteric' on there, and say that she included esoteric Buddhist teachings as part of modern Theosophy.

It is true that she often spoke of Lamaism, yet if you take the time to actually read what she herself taught and presented, you will find that she prefers to speak of `esoteric Budhism,' and she goes to great pains to clarify that the exoteric doctrines attributed to Siddharta Gautama often bear as little resemblance to both the true, and also the inner (esoteric, occult) Teaching ... as those found in contempory (or even medieval) Christianity do to the true doctrine of the Christ.

Also consider, that many a well-respected and learned Lama, even Rimpoche, will not know of the innermost, or occult Buddhist (properly `Budhist') teachings. But this does not PROVE a thing, except that the Dharma, exactly as it was taught would occur, has indeed declined across the many centuries since the original turning of the wheel ... and has, like Christianity, become defaced and disfigured so much so that it often amounts to only so much hocus pocus, superstition, and ritualism. :(

The following portion of an Extract from a Statement by the Tibetan [Master] will be relevant here:
Suffice it to say, that I am a Tibetan disciple of a certain degree, and this tells you but little, for all are disciples, from the humblest aspirant up to, and beyond, the Christ Himself. I live in a physical body like other men, on the borders of Tibet, and at times (from the exoteric standpoint) preside over a large group of Tibetan lamas, when my other duties permit. It is this fact that has caused it to be reported that I am an abbot of this particular lamasery. Those associated with me in the work of the Hierarchy (and all true disciples are associated in this work) know me by still another name and office. Alice A. Bailey knows who I am and recognises me by two of my names.
In a proper investigation into the historicity of the Theosophical Masters, and in any serious inquiry into their true nature (for purposes other than simply to debunk them) ... one should take into account these various relationships - between the Masters and Their Ashrams (Occultly speaking, on the Inner Planes, as well as in the case of those several Ashrams which are now externalization, onto the physical plane of activity), between the Masters and their real-world disciples, living in physical bodies, between the Masters and the adherents of various religions which the Masters seem to belong to (from a exoteric standpoint, such as the Master KH - who "is a Sikh," just as Master DK "is a Tibetan Buddhist Lama"), and so forth.

One should pay careful attention, where there has been good, sound research (and not this business of hurling invective and slander) ... to look at what we have been allowed to know, regarding the true relationship between the Teachings of the various Masters, and those of the various exoteric religions with which some of them are most closely allied. To suggest that Master Jesus, for example, is not intimately involved with Christianity ... would be absurd, yet the esoteric angle on this is that his own "brand" of Christianity has little in common with what has rightly been called the Churchianity which now prevails, and which is practiced in his name.

With respect to Krishnamurti, much of this also applies, but in terms of Hinduism, or Advaita Vedanta, and commentary on this can be found in Cyril Scott's Initiate series of books. Several Masters offer us some insight into the situation, and the highlights I have already shared.

It is good, meanwhile, to clear HPB of these false accusations that she fabricated, or distorted, the Buddhist doctrines - either esoteric, or exoteric. READ what she herself has to say, Thomas, and stop swallowing whole all that your man Guenon has to feed you on the matter. Whatever else he may have known, he clearly knew squat about HPB - and about the true source, and nature, of her doctrines.

History will prove this to be true; then again, a little serious inquiry on the part of the unbiased seeker will equally suffice. I know it's asking a lot, but ... ;)
 
Just for clarity, Thomas, let's be clear that HPB never intended her Esoteric presentation to be equated with exoteric Buddhism, nor even is it really proper to just tack the word `esoteric' on there, and say that she included esoteric Buddhist teachings as part of modern Theosophy.

Let us be also clear that HPB interpreted the Western Tradition in light of the Eastern, which is precisely the point that Steiner and many others were unhappy about. It's not me saying that, it's what they said.

It is good, meanwhile, to clear HPB of these false accusations that she fabricated, or distorted, the Buddhist doctrines - either esoteric, or exoteric. READ what she herself has to say, Thomas, and stop swallowing whole all that your man Guenon has to feed you on the matter. Whatever else he may have known, he clearly knew squat about HPB - and about the true source, and nature, of her doctrines.
That's the trouble – I have read her. And as you haven't read Guénon, it is you who falls under your own accusation here. I know about HPB, it's you who knows 'squat' about Guénon.

Thomas
 
That's the trouble – I have read her. And as you haven't read Guénon, it is you who falls under your own accusation here. I know about HPB, it's you who knows 'squat' about Guénon.

Thomas
Thomas, the little bit that you have shared, is enough to clearly see - that the man was every bit as biased against HPB as you are ... and while we are all entitled to our preferences, he was just dead wrong about many of the things he had to say on Theosophical matters, and regarding Blavatsky.

I'm not saying I wouldn't find OTHER things that Guenon had to share ... of interest, even enlightening. But if it was written regarding Theosophy, it is already suspect. Naturally, I have my own preferences, but I also know a thing or two about a thing or two, when it comes to these things!

Thomas said:
Let us be also clear that HPB interpreted the Western Tradition in light of the Eastern, which is precisely the point that Steiner and many others were unhappy about. It's not me saying that, it's what they said.
Master Hilarion, in the Temple Teachings, demonstrates aptly for us why this was necessary. This was, you see, the choice and instruction of the Masters. This was not HPB's own fancy, or a decision that just happened to fit her agendas. Rather, she wrote - most often - under direct dictation. She helped illumine the Western Tradition, in the Light of the Eastern Wisdom, because the wellspring of the former has grown DRY over the years ... and it was NECESSARY that the Hierarchy provide a means for serious students to bridge the gaps which Western religion has ceased to bridge.

The end result, if the plan succeeds, is that students of the future will be able to study their Bibles - if they choose - with a clearer awareness of what was originally intended. Then again, many corrections will be made, including additions and deletions, and many a controversy will be settled, before all this becomes possible. It will be shown, that while Theosophical Teachings are certainly not the only avenue directly to the Truth, they are - in many ways - THE BEST WE HAVE, or have had, for many, many centuries!!!

I myself find other, more updated presentations of the Wisdom Tradition to meet my needs, but my indebtedness to HPB and the Theosophists (along with a debt of gratitude to my parents, for raising me in the Lutheran Christian Tradition) - is never repayable, except through dedicated service to God, and to my fellow man.



To emphasize my point, here is what your St. Paul had to say about the matter, ~100 years ago, in a lesson called, `My Father's House is a House of Prayer':
For the last thirty-five years there has been but little said of the New Testament among occult students of H.P. Blavatsky and others who came after her. As I have told you before, the New Testament holds in its pages all the knowledge of the universe. All the diffuse philosophical literature of the ages that preceded the Christian era was preparatory. The New Testament synthesizes all, but it has been so misunderstood and misinterpreted that we deemed it best to go back to the older philosophies, that they might explain the New Testament. It is only through the old philosophies that it can be understood, for it contains copies of the most occult manuscripts in the world; and the treasures of the hidden chambers of the East, of which I have spoken to you before, are, as I have said of the western philosophies, but explanations of all that you find between the pages of Matthew and Revelations. You cannot study that book too much. It will open to your understanding, with the explanations you have already had, as nothing else can.​
The Eastern Wisdom provides the Key - which the West has lost. May it be found again, and may all, having found it, fit it into the lock and turn it.

Namaskar,

~andrew
 
The end result, if the plan succeeds, is that students of the future will be able to study their Bibles - if they choose - with a clearer awareness of what was originally intended.

Or rather, of the Theosophical agenda, bearing in mind that ...

Then again, many corrections will be made, including additions and deletions,

You mean you take out the bits that you don't like, and probably clarify Genesis 1:26, I bet!

and many a controversy will be settled, before all this becomes possible.
I don't doubt it. Least of all the controversy which will arise when you set out to rewrite the secred texts of ther world according to your doctrine.

It will be shown, that while Theosophical Teachings are certainly not the only avenue directly to the Truth, they are - in many ways - THE BEST WE HAVE, or have had, for many, many centuries!!!

Another way, why don't you just burn all the books that don't agree with you?

along with a debt of gratitude to my parents, for raising me in the Lutheran Christian Tradition) - is never repayable, except through dedicated service to God, and to my fellow man.

Ooh, you fibber! You told me you preferred to stay in bed on a Sunday morning!

[/INDENT]The Eastern Wisdom provides the Key - which the West has lost.

Andrew ... why argue with me, when you finally state explicitly the very reason that Steiner et al broke with Theosophy?
 
... bah, one of my pet hates that, pretending the mystical East holds more truths than the barbaric West... wake up! don't u get that by viewing ur own culture as wrong and lesser than the rest ur turning urself into a lesser being?

why should it be that the East is better than the West? It's religions have no more or less merit than any of the other paths to God, surely...?

and well, if it is better, why not go to the root, forget Blavatsky and study hinduism by itself?

ppl knock HPB, yes, and Leadbetter, and they feel sorry for Krishnamurti and his ugly but more intelligent brother... those kids were just being used, the cute little Indian boy messiah who had his head filled full of Theosophy, and they were all as complicit in this as each other...

and now we have it all over again, with Benjamin Creme's new Maitreya... poor chap, having all that power and not being able to use it... when will he come out, the new Krishnamurti? soon?

if what the TS has to say is so right, and so true, then why the need for the fake messiahs? is it because the TS are stupid or they believe others are?
 
I have some pet hates too. They are vicious things, and bite uncontrollably. Do not feed them if you happen to notice one begging at your door. I would as soon starve them, cruel person that I am.

Notice, too, the brood of vipers, so fond of testing another man's religion (or his adherence to professed ideals). These can inconveniently turn on their handler, and inject their poison - as lethal to himself, as to his opponent.

Yet we are taught, once the arrows are let fly - only through absorption, can we combat our foe. If our own arrow returns upon us, this too, is a blessing and an opportunity. Not always does life hand us such an easy lesson.
 
Hi B.Andrew,


>But Masters KH and M are on record as having praised Leadbeater for his good work in the world, and with the TS. I think this was at Annie Besant's >passing, as she deeply desired to know - and to have made known - that >CWL was a overall a good gent after all. :)


Folk can read about Leadbeater in his biography:
The Elder Brother: A Biography of Charles Webster Leadbeater
by Gregory Tillett



>Besant, too, while not perfect either (have YOU taken that 5th Initiation >yet, Bruce? ahh, didn't think so),

Beasant was a great orator. That was the trouble with Leadbeater - he was handing out initiations, sashes and other vanities.

I do have Gregory's book.

>If such terminology was used, it was IMPLICITLY understood that this <meant he was selected as a possible candidate for overshadowing ... just as the Christ had overshadowed the Initiate Jesus (3rd Degree Initiate at >the time) 2000 years earlier.

People were buying tickets to see him sail into Sydney harbour.



>Master (KH), and the type of "occult surgery" which you have erroneously mentioned in connection with HPB, Bruce, was absolutely >necessary in Krishnamurti's case (else it would not have been performed).

I thought I had corrected your misunderstanding. That was a secret occult lodge that I referred to not the Masters.



Best Wishes,
Bruce
 
I thought I had corrected your misunderstanding. That was a secret occult lodge that I referred to not the Masters.
Sorry, wasn't clear on this. I think I see what you mean. I don't mean to be so biased, but I have come to automatically assume certain things when I even see the word `occult,' while not forgetting that to many folks it means of course almost nothing along the lines of what I tend to think! :p

Also, `lodge,' though often used in connection with Masonry, often immediately makes me think of the Lodge of Masters, or Spiritual Hierarchy. Their Cosmic prototype, even, on Sirius, is spoken of in the same way - the Sirian Lodge - so while I know the Masons down the street have one too, I'm just not used to thinking so broadly.

Narrowness! It'll getcha every time! :eek:

Peace out,

~andrew
 
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