Wil....

17th Angel

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I think you'd be best to ask, don't ask why, I just believe you'd be best for this.... I think it goes in with belief and spirituality, cause... perhaps it has something in connection, in common.... The days of old where everyone was chilled and peacful and loving and so on lol... How do you get 100% like that? Like I am trying to now live a life of peace and just being chilled out, but I can't seem to lose that short fuse. Kind of trying to imitate Jeffery "The dude" Lebowski slightly... He has laid back ways lol.... :D

Anyway, like this isn't a switch is it... That you simply click on and off...

"And that, I think, was the handle - -that sense of inevitable victory over the forces of Old and Evil. Not in any mean or military sense; we didn't need that. Our energy would simply prevail. We had all the momentum; we were riding the crest of a high and beautiful wave. So now, less than five years later, you can go up on a steep hill in Las Vegas and look West, and with the right kind of eyes you can almost see the high-water mark - that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back."

I want those kind of eyes.... :\
 

17th Angel

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I am pretty sure I am clear at the moment...

I am speaking of being a person of love and patience.... Like the old 60's 70's times..... Where everyone was like..... Meh so what... We living life good.... Am I still not coming through? I am not sure how to make it clearer then.... To have faith is something that must be grown and taken care of... You don't just wake up and say... THERE IS A GOD!!! Be praised! You need to convince yourself, and it is the same for any belief or spiritual thing..... And to be a person of patiences and love for others, that takes some work... Just trying to find out.... How.... You get that stronger.
 

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I am pretty sure I am clear at the moment...

I am speaking of being a person of love and patience.... Like the old 60's 70's times..... Where everyone was like..... Meh so what... We living life good.... Am I still not coming through? I am not sure how to make it clearer then.... To have faith is something that must be grown and taken care of... You don't just wake up and say... THERE IS A GOD!!! Be praised! You need to convince yourself, and it is the same for any belief or spiritual thing..... And to be a person of patiences and love for others, that takes some work... Just trying to find out.... How.... You get that stronger.

Well I think attributing it to an untrue nostalgia, that it takes being born in the right place and time, is ok for an example of an idea....but it was not the truth. I think you do have all the 'qualities' but I am not about to tell you what you already know. Maybe you do not have to convince yourself, just stop trying to convince yourself the opposite? Usually people only get mad at witnessing their own failings in others, or because they are reminded of a hurt they suffered from similar people. You are a good guy, however hard you try to hide it at times.:)

Tao
 

17th Angel

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That's cool... But, you know where someone does something and it is really small and shouldn't even concern you, just smile and carry on... But anger and frustration takes over, crossed words and actions are exchanged... You know... I don't want the first thoughts that come to my head, I want the thoughts... "whoops" "oh dear he wasn't looking was he, oh well accidents happen" "Sorry, no sorry that was my fault." "Oh he didn't see me, oh well." "oh here is another customer, awesome I will do what I can to help them and make them happy...." You know... lol
 

wil

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Namaste Angel
Anyway, like this isn't a switch is it... That you simply click on and off...
The Dali Lama, Tich Nat Hanh, and many others may be better to ask....

The switch answer...is yes and no...if you believe you can turn it on at will, you can...and if you believe you can't, you can't. Oversimplistic? Not really. It all has to do with your realm of acceptability. If you can accept that you can change over night...accept that wholy and completely you can...if you have doubts...the doubts take over...

Didja watch what the bleep? Those little receptors in your cells that are keyed to the electrochemical drugs produced by your organs...those chemicals that are produced by hate, love, lust, greed, excitement....the fact that our cells replicate with more receptors based on past experiences? Well if you haven't been practicing love and haven't got the enjoyment out of it and your cells aren't begging for more...ya gotta turn that switch. Now if you have been flying off the handle, love to live at the edge of your seat, get off on twisting someone mercilessly under your thumb, enjoy kicking someone in the knee when they put their foot in their mouth, if you're used to living the life of a take advantage of everyone sarcastic bastard....it may take a while....oops were we talking about me?

So like learning to type fast, or shoot accurately, or compete in anything...it simply takes practice. The first step...contemplation...I lived decades thinking my way was ok...my first step...a little guilt about the way I'd been living...a desire to change...a desire to practice another way.

I fully believe some have revelation, are suddenly impacted by some event or inspiration that allows them to physically turn on that switch, for me it is an ongoing process. I fly off the handle, I get pissed, but now I realize that is not beneficial to me, the situation, or to those around me...and I attempt to learn from it and turn it around.

These are my thoughts, a combination of thought from many others which have been proven true by my experiences. Knowing that G-d can do for us what G-d can do through us...and that it is upto me to decide....many are called, few choose...

Deep breaths my brother....meditation and contemplation....forgiveness of others and yourself...there are plenty of tools to add to your toolbox which will help you on this path.

I'm humbled that you ask me....I'm grateful to be thought of in this regard...indicates to me that the footsteps of thousands that have gone before me are worth following...
 

wil

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That's cool... But, you know where someone does something and it is really small and shouldn't even concern you, just smile and carry on... But anger and frustration takes over, crossed words and actions are exchanged... You know... I don't want the first thoughts that come to my head, I want the thoughts... "whoops" "oh dear he wasn't looking was he, oh well accidents happen" "Sorry, no sorry that was my fault." "Oh he didn't see me, oh well." "oh here is another customer, awesome I will do what I can to help them and make them happy...." You know... lol
Everyone is doing the best with the knowledge they currently have...

and the parable of the house...

You see a housing development...some are foundations, some have some framing, some have windows and are partially bricked or partially roofed. You don't say look at those houses that are only concrete, look at those that don't have shrubbery and pretty lawns, they will never amount to anything, they are useless....each and every one of us is a work in progress, each needs the assistance of others to grow...we can be bulldozed down, or built up...every encounter we have with another individual we are either building their worth, their self esteem, their confidence or tearing it down....our choice....the events in our lives are nothing in comparison to our reactions to them.

Tich Nhat Hanh asks if you were tending your roses or tomatoes and they weren't growing and blooming as you'd like...would you yell at them...would you berate them for being stupid and thoughtless...would you take soil and water away from them...or should we provide all the nutrients required for growth??

These stories help me remember...
 

17th Angel

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Namaste AngelThe Dali Lama, Tich Nat Hanh, and many others may be better to ask....

Maybe... Maybe not, you're here though, that's good enough for me.

The switch answer...is yes and no...if you believe you can turn it on at will, you can...and if you believe you can't, you can't. Oversimplistic?

I don't see it as too simple, I just see that as too insane... If you are one of those people who have got the minerals to be a good person, then that switch is surley always on? But then, if you are one of those type of people, that means you could also turn that switch off, or forget to put it on.... Hmm

quote=wil;115998]
Didja watch what the bleep? Those little receptors in your cells that are keyed to the electrochemical drugs produced by your organs...those chemicals that are produced by hate, love, lust, greed, excitement....the fact that our cells replicate with more receptors based on past experiences? Well if you haven't been practicing love and haven't got the enjoyment out of it and your cells aren't begging for more...ya gotta turn that switch. Now if you have been flying off the handle, love to live at the edge of your seat, get off on twisting someone mercilessly under your thumb, enjoy kicking someone in the knee when they put their foot in their mouth, if you're used to living the life of a take advantage of everyone sarcastic bastard....it may take a while....oops were we talking about me?
[/quote]

See I had a straight face and was reading and so on, and from about where it goes bold... I started to smile and even snickered once..... :|I think I snickered at the kick in the knee....


quote=wil;115998]
So like learning to type fast, or shoot accurately, or compete in anything...it simply takes practice. The first step...contemplation...I lived decades thinking my way was ok...my first step...a little guilt about the way I'd been living...a desire to change...a desire to practice another way.[/quote]

So I am still practicing? So in a way.... It is ok when I "slip up" and swear at someone and think of violent ways to resolve conflict ( I don't go to that extent anymore, but I still think it...) Because end of the day I am still just getting the hang of it.... I find mostly once I get home or sit down or whatever AFTERwards.... I think "Ah I wish I hadn't handled that situation like that."

quote=wil;115998]These are my thoughts, a combination of thought from many others which have been proven true by my experiences. Knowing that G-d can do for us what G-d can do through us...and that it is upto me to decide....many are called, few choose...

Deep breaths my brother....meditation and contemplation....forgiveness of others and yourself...there are plenty of tools to add to your toolbox which will help you on this path.

I'm humbled that you ask me....I'm grateful to be thought of in this regard...indicates to me that the footsteps of thousands that have gone before me are worth following...[/quote]

Thank you for your thoughts... They help I believe. Well, I know 100% we are not like the same, but I am sure there are some air waves you travel(traveled on) that I do to... I feel some kind of connection there lol... If you understand what I mean, and I think you do... *shruggs*

--EDIT--

That rose thing is indeed interesting, I think I would kinda hit them lol..... Like I do when building computers... I am the idiot yes, I am the one who has missed something I am at fault I connected the wrong power wires..... Or forgot to connect up a DVD drive or something.... But, I blame it on the computer and tend to hit it lol... Start to sweat, swear and sulk..... But it is just computer components... That I am putting in error. Getting better at that though with, practice.... I have built five cpu's so far... without anger.
 

wil

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I don't see it as too simple, I just see that as too insane... If you are one of those people who have got the minerals to be a good person, then that switch is surley always on? But then, if you are one of those type of people, that means you could also turn that switch off, or forget to put it on.... Hmm

That rose thing is indeed interesting, I think I would kinda hit them lol..... Like I do when building computers... I am the idiot yes, I am the one who has missed something I am at fault I connected the wrong power wires..... Or forgot to connect up a DVD drive or something.... But, I blame it on the computer and tend to hit it lol... Start to sweat, swear and sulk..... But it is just computer components... That I am putting in error. Getting better at that though with, practice.... I have built five cpu's so far... without anger.
High five on the five! Our tendency is to blame, we wish someone else to save us...that is why this personal responsibility stuff is a pain.

Our lives have more to do with our choices than they do with our genes...they have more to do with our choices now than they do with our choices from the past...our future has more to do with our current choices than our past experiences....everything....everything is upto us.

Consider being careful with the I am's.... "I am the idiot", "I am putting in error".... bad affirmations being thrown into the universe... You are a child of G-d and can be whatever you choose!
 

wil

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Oh no, I consider myself far more advanced, than just "idiot" That is just the way I acknowledge I am at fault.....
That is just it...your higher self, your "I am" is not at fault... Not I am sorry, but I apologize, not I am in error, but I made a mistake...nuance...but no need invoking the burning bush in affirming a negative....

from the past...
There is incredible power in words...

Not just limited to 'keeping your word' or 'your word is your bond' these should be obvious imho, if you say you are going to do something either do it or call in time to not infringe upon the other for your having to withdraw...and yes of course there exist exceptions...

But beyond that, positive and negative words and thoughts affect our day, our situations, our perceptions.... we create things with our words...good or bad...we create.

I am stupid....terrible affirmation, connecting those words together creates a change in your psyche allowing you to accept less and less of yourself.

I know a woman in her mid forties...as a young child overheard her mother say to a neighbor...'no she doesn't have the looks of her sister, she never will' those words haunt her today... We truly need to watch what we say.

There was an Army study where they split the recruits in three and told the drill seargent this group won't amount to anything...and these guys are officers material...watch them carefully... The middle group was mediocre, the lower third became grunts...and the upper third was found to be exemplary...power of the word...insitlling perception and creating a new reality...

So we can use our words directly to influence people...great work Johnny, I'm going to frame this and hang it on the wall! Or ... can't you ever stay within the lines? that is awful. our words are powerful and long lasting.

Or we can use them indirectly..."Watch my son...he's in a mood today and has been nothing but trouble all summer" or "I can't believe how much he improved over the summer, you are going to have one well behaved A student on your hands this year." Incredible power preconceived notions...that first impression will last a long time...and change the child!

We create our lives with our words, not just adjust our perception but adjust our future...

Do we think saying "I am bad with names" will assist our memory?
Or "I am bad with money" will increase our financial situation?

Truly we can change...by changing what comes out of our mouths.
 

juantoo3

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Kindest Regards, Angel and all!

Everyone is doing the best with the knowledge they currently have...
SPOT ON, WIL!!!

If I may, Angel, I struggle with some of the same anger issues as you. Its taken me quite some time to realize, but I am beginning to understand more deeply that anger is an emotion, and we do have some control over our emotions. As a clerk, I have to deal with people all day long at work. All of the "professionalism" training I received in school only gave me thoughts to consider when I was calm, and seldom entered my mind when dealing with a...problematic...customer. Over time I began to see that creating adversarial relationships with people I deal with on a frequent basis added to my problems...so I try, mostly, to alleviate that. Its a lot easier to deal with folks on a day to day if one can have a constructive relationship, if not even "friendly." Then there are the occasional patients or family that are difficult to deal with, and it is hard to keep in mind that a person in pain or dealing with health issues may not be pleasant to deal with, or concerned family / friends may be a bit demanding. Still, my position requires that I try. It is really difficult at times.

I think the most eye opening experience for me was when my dog did something (don't even remember what) that provoked my ire. Now, I was set up for this by my physical therapist in a conversation we had. I noticed that I was angry, but I was "outside" (or inside?) of myself, I could see myself getting angry and didn't seem to be able to control it. I was watching me. And I found as the anger began to subside that I was able to control it and calm down much sooner. When I remember to do so, I try to step aside in my mind and rationalize whether or not my anger will be constructive. It seldom is. When I have such presence of mind, I find I am able to lay aside my anger and deal with the situation much better. I accept that I have been angered, but that anger will not solve the problem, and then I seek a solution to the problem.

Doesn't always work, I am still a work in progress, but I do try. I don't get angry quite as fast anymore, but I still have moments.

Like Wil said: practice, practice, practice. There is a switch, if you can find it and learn to make it work. A lot of us, myself included, forget (or don't know) it is there. It is alright to be angry, but to get lost in anger to the point of forgetting that anger doesn't solve the problem is where people like me get into trouble.

Thank you, for such a meaningful thread. ;)
 

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Hi, 17th,

So you want to want.......just do.

Forget the history...... it's a new day.

And you know the first step in forgiving others is first to forgive yourself.

Try without trying.

Smile..... it's okay either way.... you will dumbfound the "enemy" and make good connections with others and surprize on surprize a smile returned creates more smiles and before you know it.............

Ever read a man called Osho? Rebel Guru and friend of mine.

Tell you something..... I've read you on this board as a good guy, no matter what you say. :)

love - c -
 

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17th,

Thanks for opening up this thread, I think it will serve to both remind and open folks up to whats going on inside them. We often get so caught up in our isms and techniques that we forget why the hell we started them in the first place. I've been a twelve stepper now for nearly ten years and sometimes when listening to someone share about something they did or thought wasn't "spiritual" I think "how do you know?"

The mere fact that we can be aware of our own behavior and thoughts seems to imply a deeper process at work, therefore we cannot be our thoughts and behaviors. Sure we can repress our anger, sarcasm and be a better person with an ego that is more shiny and pretty than before, but it is still an ego, a simulcrum, just another idea in our head of who and what we are, and I suspect that we are still way off base.

I continue to ask myself, just who is it that wants to be more kind, more loving, more compassionate? Further, if I succeed in demonstrating these qualities, will I be any closer to real understanding or have I just created a more socially acceptable construct of a human? is there something deeper that drives me to want to change, and what is that thing, that essence I am striving for?
When you, 17th, ask how to change, it reminds me of all these things, therefore I am grateful for your instruction :)
 

17th Angel

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Hi, 17th,

So you want to want.......just do.

Forget the history...... it's a new day.

And you know the first step in forgiving others is first to forgive yourself.

Try without trying.

Smile..... it's okay either way.... you will dumbfound the "enemy" and make good connections with others and surprize on surprize a smile returned creates more smiles and before you know it.............

Ever read a man called Osho? Rebel Guru and friend of mine.

Tell you something..... I've read you on this board as a good guy, no matter what you say. :)

love - c -

The start of that post I did expect something along those lines... The last paragraph though was quite suprising... Thanks?

If I may, Angel, I struggle with some of the same anger issues as you. Its taken me quite some time to realize, but I am beginning to understand more deeply that anger is an emotion, and we do have some control over our emotions. As a clerk, I have to deal with people all day long at work. All of the "professionalism" training I received in school only gave me thoughts to consider when I was calm, and seldom entered my mind when dealing with a...problematic...customer. Over time I began to see that creating adversarial relationships with people I deal with on a frequent basis added to my problems...so I try, mostly, to alleviate that. Its a lot easier to deal with folks on a day to day if one can have a constructive relationship, if not even "friendly." Then there are the occasional patients or family that are difficult to deal with, and it is hard to keep in mind that a person in pain or dealing with health issues may not be pleasant to deal with, or concerned family / friends may be a bit demanding. Still, my position requires that I try. It is really difficult at times.

I think the most eye opening experience for me was when my dog did something (don't even remember what) that provoked my ire. Now, I was set up for this by my physical therapist in a conversation we had. I noticed that I was angry, but I was "outside" (or inside?) of myself, I could see myself getting angry and didn't seem to be able to control it. I was watching me. And I found as the anger began to subside that I was able to control it and calm down much sooner. When I remember to do so, I try to step aside in my mind and rationalize whether or not my anger will be constructive. It seldom is. When I have such presence of mind, I find I am able to lay aside my anger and deal with the situation much better. I accept that I have been angered, but that anger will not solve the problem, and then I seek a solution to the problem.

Doesn't always work, I am still a work in progress, but I do try. I don't get angry quite as fast anymore, but I still have moments.

Like Wil said: practice, practice, practice. There is a switch, if you can find it and learn to make it work. A lot of us, myself included, forget (or don't know) it is there. It is alright to be angry, but to get lost in anger to the point of forgetting that anger doesn't solve the problem is where people like me get into trouble.

Thank you, for such a meaningful thread. ;)

You may...

You anger/violent problems? Wow.... A clerk? That's a person who sits in a shop isn't it? Dealingwith customers face to face? I wouldn't be able to hold a job like that... I am too blunt, and I will say what I feel and I like highlighting on others stupidity....... *sighs* This is a long path to travel lol... But will keep practicing.. I do honestly say to myself in the shower every morning words to encourage me to try and smile and be polite... It will come some day.

That is just it...your higher self, your "I am" is not at fault... Not I am sorry, but I apologize, not I am in error, but I made a mistake...nuance...but no need invoking the burning bush in affirming a negative....

from the past...

Hmmm "I am" I don't see the importantce of that small phrase... :(

I am quite upset about that... That upset... I(me..lol).

I don't get it lol...


Paladin... You're welcome :D!!!

I thought yeah, not just for me, but this would be helpful to others... Like I keep saying I'm trying but ain't we all? There must be times we all slip up and those even further down this path then me still must slip up... And I guess this could offer advice... :)
 

wil

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Hmmm "I am" I don't see the importantce of that small phrase... :(....I don't get it lol...
To me it is the multitude of little things that make the whole...

Fake it till you make it...I am healthy, whole, happy, and loving...great affirmation and the more you say it the more you'll believe.

I am stupid...lousy affirmation, and the more you say it the more you'll believe it.

Remember when we were told what posture can do for us...try this one...

stand ... (posture only works if you physically try it)

now..stand...feet shoulder width apart...a little wider...slump your shoulders...really relax them...chin onto chest....now look up straight ahead with your eyes and say... I am intelligent.

Now we used our I am...but our body language didn't allow it to be...did you feel intelligent?? Straighten up, chest out, shoulders back, head erect, deep breath...I am intelligent...

little things...posture...invoking your higher self...powerful little things...
 
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